Red Dead Redemption

[Celtic_Kerr]

Wasn't it just two weeks ago that Yahtzee was saying how awful it was of Monster Hunter to "make sure you were properly prepared before setting out", and having "constantly decreasing meters" to be more realistic?

I think it was the number of meters that bothered him.
Hot/Cold
Sharpness
Health
Stamina
Many others in terms of items... Yahtzee is asking for a very simple version of it.

Health, Dead eye
Hunger, Stamina, Thirst

You still need to sleep, because that's saving your game, so building a healthy habit of that wouldn't impede you too bad...

But in the old west you can steal from others, wheras in monster hunter you're alone. So even ill prepared, you can rob your way through

Sounds like he's asking for even more complicated stuff than Monster Hunter. Hot/Cold was only present in area where the weather was extreme (deserts, snow tundras). Sharpness, Health, and Stamina are it... as opposed to what he wants, which is Thirst, Hunger, Weariness, Dead Eye. Sometimes MH gave you buffs like Attack Up or Health Up from eating meals before leaving on hunts... but those only went away if you died, they weren't timed.

Plus, you aren't actually alone in Monster Hunter. You can get NPC companions, or play online with others. You can *choose* to go it alone, but it's not forced.

I'm not looking to start another 800+ comment thread, just seems a little bit hypocritical to want features he hated two weeks ago. Sounds like it would make Red Dead Redemption an even bigger pain in the ass than Monster Hunter, by a huge margin. How fast would Hunger/Thirst deteriorate? Would you have to stop in the middle of combat to drink from a canteen and take a bite of some jerky before you end up missing way too many of your shots? How would that be any different from taking two seconds to sharpen your sword?

I suppose, though it was very odd to see people all around me dying of dehydration and sun storke and such while you can run around and do whatever... Perhaps a system where you must drink water three times a day, five at absolute most. I would run into little campsites all over and be invited to sit at them, but they never served a purpose... Maybe if sitting at one had the others offer you food and water...

I do know there was a massive amount of time between missions where you'd ride for a while, but I lvoed how spread out it was.

 

[viking97]

somebody email this to rockstar

 

[Quorothorn]

Best opening sentence ever.

"In GTA, gaining a wanted level was this constant occupational hazard that came of doing the standard activities required of missions or just from being too incautious when acquiring the all-important transport, and escaping from the cops was an exciting challenge as you weaved around oncoming traffic and took odd turns to throw them off."

And that's a very good point.

The proposed solution is certainly interesting, but it would have to be employed carefully in order to work out as a net positive. We've seen this sort of thing get screwed up before.

 

[Limzz]

This is simply reinforcing my tentativeness to get RDR. I hated GTA IV. Everything I've read about RDR makes it sound like a dicking-around festival with a bunch of bland minigames.

 

[Takurumotou]

Well, you know, that's what mods are for.



Oh wait...

 

[lead sharp]

I totally agree with the idea of a survival meter. One of the great things about Fallout was the idea you were surviving in that wilderness. Some people at work have said to me what's the point of pretending to be somewhere worse than you are now? My reply is that 1. I don't get to shoot monsters and you can feel challenged by a need to survive without the danger of really needing to and 2. I live in Liverpool so the irradiated wasteland of Washington isn't in fact worse.

 

[feather240]

Give it the stalker style of hunger , but add thirst too. In stalker you don't get a bar, you got a little icon. It prevents players from becoming OCD and filling it up every chance they have, and it makes it a lot more interesting when you aren't hungry until you're hungry.

"I'll just walk across- Oh Shit."

 

[ark123]

Wow a food/water meter is a SHIT idea. They're adding that to Fallout 3. WEEEE! Instead of shooting people and completing missions I'll crawl around in the sewers trying to find rats I can gobble down and instead of trading for a scope for my rifle I'll spend all my cast in non-contaminated water. Great, hurray realism. Now all we need is the character to limp all game because it was shot in the foot in the first five minutes, or the whole scenario becomes 2d because I ducked too fast behind cover and scratched my cornea. Want to heal? Park your character in the hospital for two weeks, real time. No guarantees either, that leg might have to come off, and you better hope the next mission has plenty of ramps.

No.

 

[normaldeviant]

There's already a game that fits that description. It's called Oregon Trail.

 

[SilverHammerMan]

Sounds good actually, I really do like to do a bit of roleplaying in RDR and having to eat, etc. would be pretty interesting, as long as it wasn't obtrusive. The player should never have to stop mid-fight to grab a drink.
I don't agree though about not needing to break the law being boring. I for one found it quite refreshing that I could play as a good guy, (albeit a horrifically murderous one) and still enjoy myself, after all I've played the bad guy plenty times in other games, usually out of sheer boredom. In RDR I can actually play at being an elusive lawbringer, riding out to bring in bounties and defending the town from the occasional randomly generated criminal. Plus the police where just enough of a problem with the bounty system and all that I rarely went on a crime spree without carefully considering the consequences of my actions. Except for when it came to card players, cheating bastards, blackjack in particular can be unreal at times, which makes it all the more satisfying when you up and blow the smug smirk off of the card dealer's face, regardless of the consequences.
Where was I? Right, right, the food and drink thing. I think it could work, maybe it could be tied to the fame stat, if you were well known enough then people might give you free food, drinks, rooms, etc. out of either fear or respect, depending on your honour.
Also, the respawning horse thing. The first time my horse died out in the wilderness I felt a mixture of exhilaration and fear. There I was, far from civilization, vulnerable to predators and bandits alike. Would I dare try to hoof it back to the nearest town? Would I lay in wait, killing the next traveler I saw and stealing him horse, even if it would stain my own self imposed good guy image? Would I try to lasso and break in a new horse using nothing but a lasso, my wits, and the element of surprise? Then I absentmindedly whistled and my magical, reincarnating horse trotted up, thus ruining the drama of the situation and causing me to drearily ride back into town to be cheated by a slick card player who I would promptly kill.
Also, while I don't agree with the idea of non-regenerating health and Dead-Eye, I like the idea of health that would regenerate to a degree but still require medical supplements to get back to full. But a gunslinger shouldn't have non-regenerating Dead-Eye, sure unlimited Dead-Eye would make the game too easy, but it manages to regenerate at the perfect speed for me. Plus, it wouldn't make much sense if a hardened badass had to stop a take a swig of a magic potion every time he used Dead-Eye.
Wow, long post.

 

[rapchee]

i believe his problem was

"Players would have to be sure they were properly equipped before heading out of town."

Didn't you complain about this mechanic in Monster Hunter Tri?

i believe his problem was that once he set on a mission, he couldn't go back and change, unless he quit it

 

[Mikrakov]

The survival thing sounds awful, I usually hate it when they implement systems like that in games. The horse recalling thing though I do agree is a problem, and would have made for a more interesting game if you had to nick a horse if you got stuck out in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Ghostkai]

Thinking about it.... Despite one mission where you HAVE to get a wanted level... I've never pissed off the authorities in RDR. There just wasn't the urge to.

 

[PatternWolf]

I don't care for the hungry meters and so forth. I guess a little is ok, I guess. But too much and in turns into the sims or a management simulation and that just gets tedious. It seems more like an attempt to be "realistic" and even the ones that attempt to be realistic are so far from it, because at one point you have to sacrifice realism for entertainment. Even America's army sacrificed realism for some gameplay balance and that was a free army advertisement.

 

[ark123]

Wow a food/water meter is a SHIT idea. They're adding that to Fallout 3. WEEEE! Instead of shooting people and completing missions I'll crawl around in the sewers trying to find rats I can gobble down and instead of trading for a scope for my rifle I'll spend all my cast in non-contaminated water. Great, hurray realism. Now all we need is the character to limp all game because it was shot in the foot in the first five minutes, or the whole scenario becomes 2d because I ducked too fast behind cover and scratched my cornea. Want to heal? Park your character in the hospital for two weeks, real time. No guarantees either, that leg might have to come off, and you better hope the next mission has plenty of ramps.

No.

Well, first off, it's optional... they just include that in a "hardcore" mode that's not mandatory.

Second, it's Fallout. If things got that bad, go roll around in some toxic waste. You have a 50/50 chance of either dying, or mutating and re-growing that limb they hacked off at the hospital, and super powers to boot!

Way to completely miss the point of my post

 

[txnhg]

Oregon trail.... Oregon trail....

 

[pneuma08]

I happen to agree. Red Dead just felt...empty. There wasn't really much motivation to do anything except the next Thing in whatever Mission. Just a bunch of distractions. A decent place to play, but nothing you do amounts to much. I had basically the same inclinations that Yahtzee did, I want to take the RDR framework and build upon it, making my own rules to the game I want to play.

Getting rid of horse recall (i.e. Shadowfax summoning), increasing the (non-monetary) value of hunting, those are good ideas. I would also limit the amount of bullets you can carry so you might actually have to use your knife or lasso once in a while outside of hunting challenges.

 

[CitizenV]

Am I the only person that hated the mini-games in Red Dead (and GTA)?

I know for a fact that if they implemented in a game this survival mode all Yahtzee would do is piss and moan about it, in Mass Effect 2 they had the woeful planet scanning thing for optional in game rewards and that took the bulk of his "review". While the competent to excellent story writing warranted only a snide back hand complement. Really pushing the games are art agenda...



I love Yahtzee's Zero Punctuation and Extra Punctuation but would it kill him to actually act like a critic? According to his Bioshock review he cant because of his ratings I'm aware he has an obligation to The Escapist to be funny, but part of being funny is violating the audiences expectations and I site his Orange Box Review (In particular the Portal end segment).

 

[CitizenV]

A good example of a critic in a similar style would be Charlie Brooker but he manages to give a more rounded and intelligent review of the things he loves.

 

[Ponchponcho]

I would have settled for a health bar and ability to equip body armor like in "A Fistfull of Dollars" but yes, game should have had a harder edge. Great article!