Red Dead Redemption
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Recommended Videos
I have mixed feelings about this. On one side, I would enjoy such a feature, as micromanagement is interesting in a game as long as it is not very intrusive. However, you then get Wild Wild Sims.
On the other, I agree to that it would break down the fantasy of being a western hero, and instead you become a ***** for your digital avatar.
The thing I felt of DRR was, it was too short for me. The few end missions were pretty dull; as someone said earlier, I'd have rather done them at the start, as a tutorial and a way to introduce who we are fighting for. The outlaw situation is dead on too. I don't see a good reason to turn evil, nor can I think of a way that this is possible, aside from the aforementioned micromanagement.
On the other, I agree to that it would break down the fantasy of being a western hero, and instead you become a ***** for your digital avatar.
The thing I felt of DRR was, it was too short for me. The few end missions were pretty dull; as someone said earlier, I'd have rather done them at the start, as a tutorial and a way to introduce who we are fighting for. The outlaw situation is dead on too. I don't see a good reason to turn evil, nor can I think of a way that this is possible, aside from the aforementioned micromanagement.
That would be interesting...a RDR kind of game that forces you into breaking the law numerous times to survive, thus more or less guaranteeing an outlaw status on your character.
A very interesting premise indeed: "Let's see how long you will last by being/ doing good in this harsh world"
The survival mechanics kinda make me think of MGS3.
A very interesting premise indeed: "Let's see how long you will last by being/ doing good in this harsh world"
The survival mechanics kinda make me think of MGS3.
In the trend of saying the exact same thing as everyone else before me, I do like the idea of the survival mechanism. I think the idea of being able to turn it "on" or "off" is a bit strange though. I mean, isn't that what the difficulty settings were supposed to accomplish? Maybe if they added a feature where, after you beat the main "quest", you unlocked another difficulty, called "Survival", where you had to contend with all the things Yahtzee suggested. That way, people like Yahtzee could have the realistic survival game they crave, and it wouldn't be inaccessible to "casual" gamers (oooh, the horror).
I feel the need to say that your use of commas just fucked my brain.Ambrose von Carstein said:
Read between the lines is all I can really say. He's not saying lets go back to the stone age, he says man has forgotten to deal with shit rather than make something that deals with it for us.
The human digestive system in the stone age was so strong, you could stop at any muddy creek, drink from it, and you wouldn't have any stomach issues. Today, if it's not "Bottled" or "Purified" it's bad for your system. I walk in the rain all the time, I don't get colds anymore, just one nasty virus per year. My friends that all use their umbrellas or stay in when it rains get 20 colds a year. Rather than deal with heat, we got air conditioners to make us comfy. Rather than deal with cold that in the past would have made us uncomfortable can kill us nowadays because of our systems. THAT is what Yahtzee means.
wolves can hunt for their own food and be self sufficient, domestic dogs, on a whole (as a basic rule) usually can't due to pampering. He's not looking at the dogs from a practical point of view, he's seeing them on a self-sufficient basis.
For a survival system to be good in a game it has to be implemented well.
I'd have no problems with having to eat as long as I can stockpile up on food in one location, so in RDR for example I could use all the meat I've obtained from hunting as a stockpile and then only eat when I get hungry. What ruins systems like this is when the game forces you to abandon what your doing to go and eat. I'd rather spend 10 minutes hunting and gathering to fulfil my needs for for the next couple of hours of gameplay, I do not however want to be forced to hunt every time I get hungry.
I think what would also help a system like this would be if game time moved at the rate of actual time, but allow players to accelerate it if they feel the need. I hate setting out to go somewhere at a certain time of day, and 10 minutes of real time lead to several hours in the game.
If conditions like this were met then a survival system in my opinion would be great, but making it a tedious chore for a player just detracts from a game.
I'd have no problems with having to eat as long as I can stockpile up on food in one location, so in RDR for example I could use all the meat I've obtained from hunting as a stockpile and then only eat when I get hungry. What ruins systems like this is when the game forces you to abandon what your doing to go and eat. I'd rather spend 10 minutes hunting and gathering to fulfil my needs for for the next couple of hours of gameplay, I do not however want to be forced to hunt every time I get hungry.
I think what would also help a system like this would be if game time moved at the rate of actual time, but allow players to accelerate it if they feel the need. I hate setting out to go somewhere at a certain time of day, and 10 minutes of real time lead to several hours in the game.
If conditions like this were met then a survival system in my opinion would be great, but making it a tedious chore for a player just detracts from a game.
Sorry I guess.Celtic_Kerr said:
Anyway, I've read it all again, but I still doesn't make much sense. If you make something to deal with shit for you, then the shit was still dealt with, right? Using air conditioners is dealing with heat the smart way. Basically what you are telling me is that the best way to deal with someone hitting you in the face with a rock is not asking him to stop or moving out of the way, but growing thicker skulls. Also, there is a reason why cavemen rarely lived past 30.
I really don't understand why Yahtzee tries to paint modern society as a bunch of stupid animals wallowing in their own filth. Is he ignorant, or is he truly a nihilistic asshole? Don't get me wrong, I like ZP. But come on, he's a funny guy who makes funny little videos. Why is he trying to shove his pseudo-intellectual ramblings down our throats?
Alright, your average dog is not a very good hunter, but can still scavenge food. That's why stray dogs are a problem.
I remember watching my character sitting at his camp's fire, every now and then, I'd scream (in my head) "cook the fucking meat, you just murdered roughly 20 wolves and I never see you eat anything".
So, I think I understand, at least, on a basic level, your idea for a game, Yahtzee.
Then again, maybe that's the point, survival is a basic level.
So, I think I understand, at least, on a basic level, your idea for a game, Yahtzee.
Then again, maybe that's the point, survival is a basic level.
I remember playing a game called Lost in the Blue where you were stranded on a deserted island and you had to pretty much do what you're describing. It was a pain in the ass, since you could only carry so much water (limited by the number of bottles you had) and you had to keep running home every five minutes so that you don't die. I swear, the main character was hypoglycemic or something.
He posted a thread on a sight that 3 months ago, I didn't know existed. He's not shoving anything down your throat. He's writing it, you're reading it, YOU'RE deciding that he must be shoving it down your throat, and you're getting offended. Dont' likeit? Don't read it. Don't like "Yahtzee shoving his opinions down your throat"? Stay away form his videos and and articles. Your "Moving out of the way of the rock" theory just failed, because it seems you havn't develloped the ability to dodge an issue in your life.Ambrose von Carstein said:
Yahtzee is saying humans have gone soft. We used to be able to drink swamp water, we used to be able to naturally take the heat without a problem (and without paying for an air conditioner). STand inside all day under the protection of your air conditioner, and then walk outside on a hot day and see how you can't deal with it anymore, so you can't go anywhere. Ee used to be able to survive the winter in a small hut. He's saying new innovations do the same thing, but it makes US as humans, weak. People drinking lake water can become very sick. The heat tires us out and makes us lathargic, the cold kills us easily compared to the past. He's not saying "Stand there and get your face bashed in" he's saying we used to be able to take a real beating without tapping out in the first round
Good ideas. I like most of them, although the survival/meter system would have to be very artfully implemented so as to not become annoying or absurd. A lot of games have tried to implement such a system, and generally they wound up feeling unrealistic. Either because of the way they were gauged (eat every hour or you die! Or those games where your gun needs repair every 5 minutes) or because of what they entailed your character doing: MGS3, for example, had you healing machine gun wounds with some tiny first aid kit, or carrying around cages full of trapped animals to eat later. Good luck sneaking around with those clanking cages, Snake. In both ways, the immersion in the game world was broken.
I know you, Yahtzee, would certainly be complaining about such clumsy features, were they to exist. Sadly, this is probably how it would of come out had they included it in RDR.
I know you, Yahtzee, would certainly be complaining about such clumsy features, were they to exist. Sadly, this is probably how it would of come out had they included it in RDR.
It's easy to make fun of other people's products Yatzee, extremely easy. I mean, you've made a career out of it (this isn't a knock by any means). It's actually quite a bit harder however to have the insight needed on why and how games convey certain situations. That's why you're one of my favorite people in the games world right now.
I enjoyed Redemption, but the simple concept you have here would have given us a much richer game. I can only hope that some people in the industry are listening to you. I honestly don't know if I can go back to Redemption now that I've tasted the much better possibility.
I enjoyed Redemption, but the simple concept you have here would have given us a much richer game. I can only hope that some people in the industry are listening to you. I honestly don't know if I can go back to Redemption now that I've tasted the much better possibility.
Ordinarily I am the first person to bare his disgust towards Neebs... However, these creators managed a complete reversal of my previous disposition in a way which can only be described as masterful! In a single episode they managed to not only flesh out Neebs' character, but offer an indirect explanation and justification towards his general douchebaggery then directly addressing Doraleous. Witnessing Neebs' oppose Ladder Guy with such unbridled loyalty speaks volumes about his actions in the previous episodes! I now realize that the ever present confrontations between Neebs and Doraleous are actually a display of Neebs' aspirations to be a mighty commander, much like Doraleous!
Jesus Christ, I think I might be willing to genuinely kill someone for that game...
Obvious hyperbole aside, I think you're following a slippery slope track when you're saying it would inevitably lead to people becoming outlaws in game. Some people would, and I think it would encourage it, but I don't think everyone would. With hunting and all that, and skillful managing of resources, you could probably get through the game with a minimum of crime.
I would shit bricks if they released this as an expansion. I'd pay for it too, though absolutely not more than 15$, and preferably 10 or less.
Obvious hyperbole aside, I think you're following a slippery slope track when you're saying it would inevitably lead to people becoming outlaws in game. Some people would, and I think it would encourage it, but I don't think everyone would. With hunting and all that, and skillful managing of resources, you could probably get through the game with a minimum of crime.
I would shit bricks if they released this as an expansion. I'd pay for it too, though absolutely not more than 15$, and preferably 10 or less.
People that think that simply adding meters is the issue here and are drawing conclusions based upon that assumption are definitely missing the point. The game play mechanic itself is never the issue - it's always the end to which they work towards. Stamina meters in the context of this game would add a level of immersion that the game really really needed by directly utilizing the empathy players would feel towards another human that is trying to eat and not be eaten in a harsh environment, hence the entire analogy with the dog and wolf. People somehow seem to forget that this mechanic has already been implemented really fucking well in other really outstanding games like MGS3. Adding meters to games like The Sims or MH ultimately just ended up arbitrarily adding more boxes on a really long check list that the game tediously forced you to fill up before the actually fulfilling (in those cases still not really) part of the gameplay opened up, which is why comparisons between this review and the MH review being utilized to prove Yahtzee's indecisiveness are somewhat baffling.