Better not mention to him that Monster Hunter had something very similar to that, and those training missions he hated oh-so-much was teaching him what to combine and how to find it in the field.awesomeClaw said:
Red Dead Redemption
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
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Doesn't it seem like the meat and herbs you pick up were MEANT to be used as food to replenish health/deadeye? As it is, they really have no use other than to complete challenges.
Speaking of deadeye, was anyone else disappointed by the later incarnations of it? The first level of dead eye was the most useful, the most visually interesting, and it didn't take control from you.
Speaking of deadeye, was anyone else disappointed by the later incarnations of it? The first level of dead eye was the most useful, the most visually interesting, and it didn't take control from you.
Also, the tedium of a mechanic that needs frequent attention (such as eating so as not to starve) can be leavened by rewarding the player for nurturing it (such as eating to increase health or prolong the time needed until next meal).
though I rather enjoyed RDR I think Yahtzee is on to something. Being how aside from the occasional inconvenience in the form of dying during a mission or unexpectedly getting mauled by a cougar. Once I'd mastered the controls the game began to become mind numbingly easy. If these features that yahtzee came up with were implemented it would not only potentially be a far better game it would also in all likely hood be the closest any of us will get to the old west experience.
- Feb 13, 2009
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While I do agree that a survival mechanic would have been nice, and would certainly like to see it either implemented as an option or a mod for the PC version (that is if Rockstar aren't dicks with some stupid form of DRM) my biggest problem with RDR is the world itself. Like most of the 'Open-world' games before it the only person that matters in it is you and you alone.
It doesn't feel lived in.
It doesn't feel lived in.
The survival system Yahtzee suggests seems unnecessary. In order to improve the game you need simply to follow the following steps.
1. Increase the need for money- All the mini games and sidequests would seem more worthwhile if you actually needed money for something. This could simply be achieved by getting rid of regenerating health and dead eye (making medicine and chewing tobacco actually useful). The prices of houses could be raised and weapons would have to be bought (or stolen) instead of being given out at the start of missions. Also items, as well as money, should be able to be stolen from stores and you could only shop at that store again if you paid for/ gave back the items you stole.
2. Add more RPG elements to the development of your character- At the start of the game John's accuracy and skills already seem super human. the game would seem more fulfilling if your characters abilities grew more obviously throughout the game. Accuracy and range of fire should start off fairly poor but could be increased by purchasing better fire arms and completing certain challenges(such as sharpshooter challenges). Health capacity could be increased by mixing and using plants that you find in the wilderness (aswell as sealing or purchasing pre made concoctions from stores). Dead eye level would vary depending on the quality of sleep you had (encouraging you to buy better houses and improve your camp-site). Buying better knives and bait would affect the type of animals you attract and the speed at which you skin them. Buying stronger lassos would increase your range and make breaking wild horses easier.
3. Fame and honour affect game play more obviously- I played half the game as a law abiding kiss ass and the other half as a outlaw badass. I never really felt a large difference between the two (besides from some slight changes in prices in certain places and the occasional citizen muttering something along the lines of "John Marsden is a good guy" or "John Marsden is a complete bastard" ). Your honor and fame levels should vary depending on the area you inhabit. This could easily be displayed on your map. ie. In Armadillo you have robbed from stores and killed civilians. In this town and surrounding areas you are a feared outlaw, inhabitants cower and lock themselves inside as soon as you step foot in town. Wanted posters with your face are plastered everywhere. Bounty hunters and law men track you down whilst outlaws and gang members take you under their arm, asking you to take hostages and rob trains. In Mexico however you are seen as a revolutionary hero. People praise your good deeds and you would be treated like a god in the towns you visit. Gang members would show increased hostility towards you, making gang hideouts more difficult and increasing the number of ambushes and duel challenges.
Other ways to improve the supposed disconnection of all the elements within RDR would be to add an RPG like feature to the development of your horse. You could choose to buy better saddles and shoes to increase the horses stamina. You could also steal these items from stores or hijack a horse and take them off that horse (or simply keep that horse). Carriages should also be able to be attached to your horse (stronger horses such as Kentucky saddler could carry larger carriages). Perhaps weapons and items could be stored in these carriages (imagine being able to mount a gattling gun to your wagon and travel around causing wanton destruction everywhere you go). Your horse would lose the carriage but not the upgradable items when it dies and all upgrades could be transferred to any horse that you hitch up. Maybe when you whistle for a horse whilst out in the wilderness a malnourished slow horse appears but not being able to whistle for your horse would become increasingly frustrating.
1. Increase the need for money- All the mini games and sidequests would seem more worthwhile if you actually needed money for something. This could simply be achieved by getting rid of regenerating health and dead eye (making medicine and chewing tobacco actually useful). The prices of houses could be raised and weapons would have to be bought (or stolen) instead of being given out at the start of missions. Also items, as well as money, should be able to be stolen from stores and you could only shop at that store again if you paid for/ gave back the items you stole.
2. Add more RPG elements to the development of your character- At the start of the game John's accuracy and skills already seem super human. the game would seem more fulfilling if your characters abilities grew more obviously throughout the game. Accuracy and range of fire should start off fairly poor but could be increased by purchasing better fire arms and completing certain challenges(such as sharpshooter challenges). Health capacity could be increased by mixing and using plants that you find in the wilderness (aswell as sealing or purchasing pre made concoctions from stores). Dead eye level would vary depending on the quality of sleep you had (encouraging you to buy better houses and improve your camp-site). Buying better knives and bait would affect the type of animals you attract and the speed at which you skin them. Buying stronger lassos would increase your range and make breaking wild horses easier.
3. Fame and honour affect game play more obviously- I played half the game as a law abiding kiss ass and the other half as a outlaw badass. I never really felt a large difference between the two (besides from some slight changes in prices in certain places and the occasional citizen muttering something along the lines of "John Marsden is a good guy" or "John Marsden is a complete bastard" ). Your honor and fame levels should vary depending on the area you inhabit. This could easily be displayed on your map. ie. In Armadillo you have robbed from stores and killed civilians. In this town and surrounding areas you are a feared outlaw, inhabitants cower and lock themselves inside as soon as you step foot in town. Wanted posters with your face are plastered everywhere. Bounty hunters and law men track you down whilst outlaws and gang members take you under their arm, asking you to take hostages and rob trains. In Mexico however you are seen as a revolutionary hero. People praise your good deeds and you would be treated like a god in the towns you visit. Gang members would show increased hostility towards you, making gang hideouts more difficult and increasing the number of ambushes and duel challenges.
Other ways to improve the supposed disconnection of all the elements within RDR would be to add an RPG like feature to the development of your horse. You could choose to buy better saddles and shoes to increase the horses stamina. You could also steal these items from stores or hijack a horse and take them off that horse (or simply keep that horse). Carriages should also be able to be attached to your horse (stronger horses such as Kentucky saddler could carry larger carriages). Perhaps weapons and items could be stored in these carriages (imagine being able to mount a gattling gun to your wagon and travel around causing wanton destruction everywhere you go). Your horse would lose the carriage but not the upgradable items when it dies and all upgrades could be transferred to any horse that you hitch up. Maybe when you whistle for a horse whilst out in the wilderness a malnourished slow horse appears but not being able to whistle for your horse would become increasingly frustrating.
I have yet to play Red Dead, but I want to take a moment to be Captain Obvious and declare that Ben is a 10 out of 5. Thank you for existing!
I don't know, while I like the proposition the Autor makes here for improving the game experience, he sounds to me like someone who is never satisfied with anything, like he forgot how to have fun, and would rather see every game to be changed in busywork.
Really good ideas Yahtzee. This is how I run a D&D game of mine, set in a sort of failed conquistadore south america. They took a third of the territory from the Mwangis and are now under the thumb of pirates and constantly fighting the wild tribes, monsters, demon worshipping cultists and coordinated native city states that remain. The players, well they are generally selfish opportunists in all this. The environment is truly dangerous and after they almost died in their first desert trek, then in their first lengthy jungle loot haul, they made sure they were ready to cross the savannah under the baking sun.
Food, water, shelter these become very important, and in the Mwangi expanse that surrounds Sargava, one is never safe. This doesn't stop them trying to use magic to get around the problem, but it is a low magic setting (ha!).
Red Dead Redemption would be better with the suggested survival option. Maybe a patch or a mod will follow, but I think we won't see it from the retarded lovers of safety.
Food, water, shelter these become very important, and in the Mwangi expanse that surrounds Sargava, one is never safe. This doesn't stop them trying to use magic to get around the problem, but it is a low magic setting (ha!).
Red Dead Redemption would be better with the suggested survival option. Maybe a patch or a mod will follow, but I think we won't see it from the retarded lovers of safety.
Yes! This is exactly why I disliked Assassin's Creed 2. In the time of the famed cities of Italy and no one is doing anything in particular.Burnhardt said:
I think that they didnt actually want you to go killing everyone, because john marston is always talking about how he left his days of killing for fun behind him. i think the only reason you could do it is because rockstar wanted to be able to sell it to all the GTA fans who just want to shoot people on the street.
Interesting viewpoint, but it sounds like you're just trying to add a slightly different variation on the 'COUSIN! WE SHOULD GO AND GET DRUNK TOGETHER!' mechanic that so many people (including yourself i believe) bitched about to no end. It's just another way of annoying the player into abiding by its rules. As great as wild west fantasies sound of nicking pies and rustling folk off their horses sound, it just never plays that way in the game world. I'm sure people expected a different wanted mechanic in GTA for example where the police don't instantly know where you are before they've even deployed the chopper. If you add survival mechanics like hunger and shit, it'll just cause so much more irritation for gamers. God knows it pissed me off in Stalker: Call of Pripyat and indeed the Sims, which somebody mentioned much earlier on.
It also felt like the majority of the first page was just filler, whining about modernisation.
Moaning aside, i do see your point, although i often have no problem at all causing trouble - i drag people through towns for a laugh and occasionally see if i can headshot a lone bloke on a horse as i'm about to ride past him for kicks. I even kidnapped a prostitute, tied her up and put her on the horse, and dragged some poor fool out of town into some wolves to chow down upon, before placing the tied-up wench on the tracks to watch her get run over. I laughed when the achievement popped. Rockstar must have quite the sense of humour; i was only doing it to fufill my own sadistic desires. But there's a point to this tale, sometimes i'd rope up a bandit in town, and having saved the damsel i'd carry him out to the middle of nowhere and grin as i put a bullet in his frightened face. More often than not someone hears the shot and goes to tell the law; and my bounty builds up. I suppose if you just follow the missions like a robot and go from one sidequest to the other you won't have any issues with the law, but i always seemed to. Even from something as basic as accidentally running over a lawman in town when on my horse, or getting pissed off with a blackjack dealer and shooting him dead, causing everyone in the bar to whip out their guns and start shooting back as i make a break for it.
This is the true definition of the 'sandbox genre'. The freedom to do this, and to get away with it. Survival mechanics put limitations on you and your ability and freedom to play the game by forcing you to munch on one of the many ham sandwiches you undoubtedly bought out from the local general store.
It also felt like the majority of the first page was just filler, whining about modernisation.
Moaning aside, i do see your point, although i often have no problem at all causing trouble - i drag people through towns for a laugh and occasionally see if i can headshot a lone bloke on a horse as i'm about to ride past him for kicks. I even kidnapped a prostitute, tied her up and put her on the horse, and dragged some poor fool out of town into some wolves to chow down upon, before placing the tied-up wench on the tracks to watch her get run over. I laughed when the achievement popped. Rockstar must have quite the sense of humour; i was only doing it to fufill my own sadistic desires. But there's a point to this tale, sometimes i'd rope up a bandit in town, and having saved the damsel i'd carry him out to the middle of nowhere and grin as i put a bullet in his frightened face. More often than not someone hears the shot and goes to tell the law; and my bounty builds up. I suppose if you just follow the missions like a robot and go from one sidequest to the other you won't have any issues with the law, but i always seemed to. Even from something as basic as accidentally running over a lawman in town when on my horse, or getting pissed off with a blackjack dealer and shooting him dead, causing everyone in the bar to whip out their guns and start shooting back as i make a break for it.
This is the true definition of the 'sandbox genre'. The freedom to do this, and to get away with it. Survival mechanics put limitations on you and your ability and freedom to play the game by forcing you to munch on one of the many ham sandwiches you undoubtedly bought out from the local general store.
I love the "survival" idea. Though I think it will actually be made in the future, I'd prefer it if it was implemented in to the RDR gameplay.
http://mycroft-woodsman.blogspot.com/2010/06/storytelling.html
http://mycroft-woodsman.blogspot.com/2010/06/storytelling.html
Simpsons did it.
Or should I say STALKER + Oblivion Lost mod did it. Man now I'm going to reinstall it....
Or should I say STALKER + Oblivion Lost mod did it. Man now I'm going to reinstall it....
The only game that did survival right was Morrowind. Oblivion was close but it had that fast travel system. In Morrowind you had to plan your trip and bring certain things and chose a path that wont get you killed. It was awesome. Especially the first time when you're just exploring everything for the first time. I'd like to see more games focus on that.