Red Dead Redemption

[Misterian]

Survival mechanic, eh?

I know Fallout: New Vegas is trying something like that with it's Hardcore Mode, which might add more to the post-apocolyptic experiance as in those days you have to expect search throughly for food or clean water just to make it from day to day.

the only thing about it that has me concerned is that in Hardcore Mode, ammo has weight, which is something you want to be concerned about next time you decide to fight a Super Mutant.

sorry if that's going off-topic.

 

[Swifteye]

I don't know, while I like the proposition the Autor makes here for improving the game experience, he sounds to me like someone who is never satisfied with anything, like he forgot how to have fun, and would rather see every game to be changed in busywork.

That's a funny thing to say because when he has his games turned into busy work he complains about that. It's almost like yahtzees job to complain about things. I know technically it is but like things he will like in one game won't like in another. It's very two faced.

I really don't like this article. Last two were pretty good but this one is a bit. Well it reeks of someone who's a bit full of themselves talking from there bum. Sure he has point. But it's all chaotic neutral. I don't know. It's like one of those things where the second someone says something you know your gonna disagree and it becomes something that will spur a heated argument that will just make everyone upset with eachother. This kinda feels like a ramble so I won't go to far. I think this article is very stressful because it always brings up the element where yathzee rags on society. And being in society I don't appericate the complete lack of respect he seems to give.

 

[Guitar Gamer]

You took the words right out of my mouth Yahtzee.
hopefully "Fallout: New Vegas" takes the "hardcore mode" as far you as you talked about it here

 

[silversun101]

Somebody call Rockstar. I want that Survival Mode implemented via DLC as soon as humanly possible!

As for how the rest of the game stacks up, I personally couldn't bear to put the thing down. I think what drew me towards this game (and this was a gamble even buying it, by the way; I had to weigh my love of westerns vs my despise of GTA) is the character of John Marston himself. For the first time in a long time i was playing a Rockstar character that I didn't immediately want to hurl head first through a plate glass window. You see, in most RS games you have the freedom to do things that, in real life, would label you as a complete psychopath. Instead of trying to mold a good, likable character that would clash with the player's natural inclinations for wonton murder and destruction, RS said "fuck it" and made all the GTA characters as sadistic is the gamers themselves. But with John Marston, his plight makes me WANT to be the hero, I WANT to be the redeemed outlaw trying to make things right. So when RDR gives me the tools to cause chaos and death, I say "No, I'd rather channel the silent, mysterious defender of the weak, as in Eastwood's Pale Rider, or perhaps John Wayne's upholder of justice, Jake Cutter."

If one of the draws of a good sandbox game is choice, is it so bad that I choose to stand on the right side of the law? Isn't it commendable that RS is finally starting to think outside of their narrow box?

 

[voetballeeuw]

I think that a survival mechanic is a very interesting idea. The game would definately be strengthened by it. There should definately be an on off button though.

 

[droppingpenny]

That's a funny thing to say because when he has his games turned into busy work he complains about that. It's almost like yahtzees job to complain about things. I know technically it is but like things he will like in one game won't like in another. It's very two faced.

I really don't like this article. Last two were pretty good but this one is a bit. Well it reeks of someone who's a bit full of themselves talking from there bum. Sure he has point. But it's all chaotic neutral. I don't know. It's like one of those things where the second someone says something you know your gonna disagree and it becomes something that will spur a heated argument that will just make everyone upset with eachother. This kinda feels like a ramble so I won't go to far. I think this article is very stressful because it always brings up the element where yathzee rags on society. And being in society I don't appericate the complete lack of respect he seems to give.

He sounds to me more like a person who is complaining for the sake of complaining, not for the sake of being constructive or improving the actual gaming experience. Like someone who disagrees on purpose with the popular opinion regardless if he is right or wrong, more like he is desperately trying to get attention, like a dog doing tricks to get food, to describe it his way. I haven't read his other Articles yet and I don't want to sound disrespectfull, but particularly in the first page of the article he bites off more than he can chew by taking on the society without really understanding it, and more for the sake of sounding smarter than he is.

 

[Vohn_exel]

See thats why I think it's wrong to call RDR a sandbox game. It isn't. It's a story game with sandbox qualities. The idea was to give you the feel of the end of the west, where being an outlaw isn't really an option anymore. It was about the experience and the entertainment. Yes it might be a paddling pool, but it's one with hookers and jets that shoot flame high into the air. If it's a toddler's "activity center" it's one with a button that shoots lazers.

The things that you mentioned would have made the game better if indeed the idea was to be evil. It's not though, the game constantly makes John out to be a good guy, caught up in a situation beyond his control. I for one was glad to have a Rockstar character that wasn't just another law breaking "thug." However, the things you described making this game better would work better for me if it was in a prequel.

Those ideas could be easily implemented as you said, and it would give the feel that this is truly the wild west that you get a taste of in RDR. This would be the wild west that has all but died out in RDR's current timeline. It would definitely give the feeling of the entire game a different feel, and make it seem like you were in a wilder time.

 

[solidstatemind]

sometimes, I find myself thinking that Yahtzee really needs to get that rod surgically removed from his ass, even if it is part of his schtick, really.

I am put in mind of that Moby quote a few years back:
"It just seem like musicians want to sell a few records and put out a perfume line, and I think it's so sad that there are so many musicians who don't want to change the world... Music has been so much more."

The first thing that came to my mind was "A lot of the time, people just want to hum along to a brainless song." I think the same principle applies here: sometimes you just want to play a game, ride around, and shoot stuff.

So rather than bemoaning how flawed every game is, why don't we appreciate at least some of them for what they are? (I know, I know: he wouldn't be Yahtzee if he did that.)

 

[EightGaugeHippo]

Nice Idea for the survival thing, but it sounds alot like the Fallout new vegas hardcore mode. But yes, a survival meter would bring back needing to do things that you are not proud of, making the crime part mean somthing.

 

[Tommy T.]

Just a bunch of ass-kissers ITT.

Perfect example why Yahtzee is not a game dev.

 

[daftalchemist]

Funny, my favorite part of the game is how there's no point, reason, or need to be evil. Marsten is a good guy. He's faithful to his wife even though she's off being kidnapped somewhere, helps others out even though they're often retarded, and only breaks the law when he absolutely needs to. I like that. That makes his character interesting to me.

I don't see why there needs to be a reason to be evil. Is it just because it's a Rockstar game or is it because people have completely forgotten what it means to be an honest guy in this world of moral choice games? I, for one, am glad to have a character that is three dimensional while still being good. It isn't cut and dry like Mario or Link where their whole purpose is just to be good and save the day. The things Marsten does are still a little morally questionable, but he does them for good reasons.

Honestly, which is more of an exciting character? The guy who robs people and acts like a bastard all the time? Or the guy who helps a crazed man transport bodies he dug up to a secluded area so he can search them for a treasure map because he needs the crazed man to help him find and kill a former friend? I'm going with the second one personally.

 

[ZealotGrunt]

i think you're going to like new vegas' survival mode (that is, if you're inclined to ignore the whole fast travel routine)

 

[Riven Armor]

The human digestive system in the stone age was so strong, you could stop at any muddy creek, drink from it, and you wouldn't have any stomach issues. Today, if it's not "Bottled" or "Purified" it's bad for your system. I walk in the rain all the time, I don't get colds anymore, just one nasty virus per year. My friends that all use their umbrellas or stay in when it rains get 20 colds a year. Rather than deal with heat, we got air conditioners to make us comfy. Rather than deal with cold that in the past would have made us uncomfortable can kill us nowadays because of our systems. THAT is what Yahtzee means.

How do you know Stone Age humans didn't die of water-borne diseases? Rain doesn't really relate to catching colds. Heat in Arizona or California can kill people or seriously deprive them of quality of life, and that's not because they're pansies. Likewise with cold in Alaska. Etc etc...

There is something to be said about exposing yourself to the outdoors earlier in life, but most of what you said is unfounded.

 

[Jorias]

I was looking forward to this review for some time now (they are playing the Commercials for RDR over and over where i live it is figgin annoying). I liked the idea of simulating a nobody in the wild west. By nobody i mean somone who doesn't have a set-in-stone agenda like Yahtzee points out in his review. The game is ultimatly a time sink, which is what a game should be in my opinion. By time sink, i mean something you sit back and waste time doing not really learning anything or being productive.

 

[ideitbawx]

Referring to the start of the topic. We may have not been able too hunt before but our cavemen ancestors certainly couldn't, say, drive a car(well).

i wouldn't exactly call driving a car a survival technique. it's more just a way to get around. have you ever had to stave off raging beasts on a regular basis just to stay alive? well, neither have i, but i wouldn't be prepared for it. even if i had a weapon, i'd be shitting myself with fear

 

[Straz]

With any luck (read: with some seriously unbelievable luck and altruism on Rockstar's part), when the game gets its inevitable crappy port to the PC, they'll add mod support and let people add that sort of thing by themselves. I gotta admit, it would be fantastic, especially seeing as that's the sort of thing I already enjoy in Fallout 3 (with mods).

I was gunna make that point too.

While the meters sound like a good idea they would have to be used in a good fashion. Most games out today that have those meters tend to fuck it up, you leave with full everything and have to come back three hours later because, lo and behold, your asshole character is hungry. If they did it on a not so realistic scale I could see it being a fairly interesting concept, but the idea of rockstar doing ANYTHING interesting is laughable.

I concur with you there.
My friends are all getting incredibly excited for rdr and I really don't know how long their enthusiasm will last...

 

[Penitent]

I really liked this article; I think it had one of your best introductory paragraphs to date.

I tried to get into Red Dead Redemption the same way that others did, but I stopped short of a few hours. I see what Rockstar were going for, it almost felt like a rugged life in the west, but moving around, doing the missions felt more like a simulator - it lacked a physical connect, a survivalist urgency. I felt like I was wasting time.

For the sake of comparison, let me bring up Metal Gear Solid 3. That game knew how to manage its stamina feature, which the player was constantly thinking about. It wasn't impossible to manage it, and it certainly wasn't difficult once you understood it in full, but the impression it left on the player stuck with him for every part of the game. Red Dead Redemption could have benefited from that a great deal, no matter how frail the reality of such a system would have been.

 

[EdinK]

hah it makes me lulz. survival in this game would be crap it would only disturb and take you away from an intresting story, a great story btw.
and MGS3 stamina bar was stupid. you got hungry every five minutes and had to open up the menu to eat cuz your sights was shaking when you had some punks head in the crosshair. yeah great.
Survival mode fit into SURVIVAL GAMES. last i checked RDR never was a survival game like Fallout or

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

The human digestive system in the stone age was so strong, you could stop at any muddy creek, drink from it, and you wouldn't have any stomach issues. Today, if it's not "Bottled" or "Purified" it's bad for your system. I walk in the rain all the time, I don't get colds anymore, just one nasty virus per year. My friends that all use their umbrellas or stay in when it rains get 20 colds a year. Rather than deal with heat, we got air conditioners to make us comfy. Rather than deal with cold that in the past would have made us uncomfortable can kill us nowadays because of our systems. THAT is what Yahtzee means.

How do you know Stone Age humans didn't die of water-borne diseases? Rain doesn't really relate to catching colds. Heat in Arizona or California can kill people or seriously deprive them of quality of life, and that's not because they're pansies. Likewise with cold in Alaska. Etc etc...

There is something to be said about exposing yourself to the outdoors earlier in life, but most of what you said is unfounded.

All of what is said is based of what my father's friend, a bio-engineering and biology major. He's studied the human body and knows what it is and has been capable of. I'm using the stone age just as a time lapse but he's said such things were possible as close to 200 years ago. besides, in the stone age, did they have any ways or filtering the water like we do now? They did drink water from wells that came from the ground and while it's not TERRIBLY filthy, it can't be said that it was the cleanest water either. Lakes, Rivers, ponds... If you had to hike from point A to point B and there was no town nearby, did nobody drink at all? You found water where you could.

Not saying we're pansies either. Just saying that people were able to live and find meaning in life without technology making it easier for them in the past, but we rely on that technology now, and it's made us softer. Not putrified jelly, but softer. In the Australian outback, where it's sometimes too hot (yes, I know the poisonous insects and such contribute too) to go, explorers are STILL finding tribes of natives that have never had contact with "Civilized" people (civilised used to describe modern society). They live without technology with bows and arrows and are comfortable when explorers DO meet them. THey're a bit tougher than us, as they don't have the technology to make it easy for them.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

Funny, my favorite part of the game is how there's no point, reason, or need to be evil. Marsten is a good guy. He's faithful to his wife even though she's off being kidnapped somewhere, helps others out even though they're often retarded, and only breaks the law when he absolutely needs to. I like that. That makes his character interesting to me.

I don't see why there needs to be a reason to be evil. Is it just because it's a Rockstar game or is it because people have completely forgotten what it means to be an honest guy in this world of moral choice games? I, for one, am glad to have a character that is three dimensional while still being good. It isn't cut and dry like Mario or Link where their whole purpose is just to be good and save the day. The things Marsten does are still a little morally questionable, but he does them for good reasons.

Honestly, which is more of an exciting character? The guy who robs people and acts like a bastard all the time? Or the guy who helps a crazed man transport bodies he dug up to a secluded area so he can search them for a treasure map because he needs the crazed man to help him find and kill a former friend? I'm going with the second one personally.

I think it's because they give you the whole "Dishonesty" choice and they make this massive meter up and thell you that if you are a good boy, you get rewards, and if you're a bad guy, you get different rewards. Normally when they give you the "Good/Bad" choice, there is meaning behind it, but it all falls to be one sided.

Bad Guy Perk: Bandits don't shoot you on sight.
My response: This is true, but you shoot THEM on sight, so I dont' see the point fo being able to walk into their midst, surround yourself with them before opening fire. No point for me.

All the perks that are worthwhile in the game come from being a good guy, they one sided it so heavily. So if Rock Star set out to make a game that is solely good, they shouldn't have put the meter in. Just the fame meter would have done. I spent the entire game being good and yet when I finished it, my Honesty meter was only full but my fame meter was only 3/4.

True, a game where morality is a good and the only thing is fine, but in order to make that game work, they shouldn't have put in a Good/Bad meter and told you to have fun. I did a play through trying to be dishonest, but I would finish a mission and gain Honesty. I was pissed! Here I was shooting down every carriage, cowboy, and speck of law enforcement I could lay into my rifle sights, and it's FORCING my meter into honesty!

Killing somsone drops honesty by 1-2 points, and completing your standard level (without an honest/dishonest choice at the end) will net you 50 Honesty... I would have had to kill the world to keep up!!! It's a two sided approach with a one-sided solution.