Reddit Bans Subreddits about Making Fun of Fat People, Neogaf, and others.

[Riot3000]

Really man they will have ALOT of cleaning to do if that is the case.

I mean SRS should be out, there are other subreddits pretty similar to coontown which will take a while, I hope they get justneckbeardthings because what went from tongue in cheek went to straight bullying and sexism with no sense of clarity to it.

I mean good for trying but that will be a big clean up job.

I mean I don't think Reddit prides itself on anything it just exist.

 

[spartenX]

hey at what point did everyone decide that freedom of speech meant "the first amendment of the US constitution"? cause it really seems to be a popular misconception.

"Freedom of Speech" and "Censorship" are deliberately invoked because of their alarmist implications. If we are to use "censorship", for example, at its most flexible definition, then asking a pre-teen to stop screaming "******" at the top of his lungs in the school cafeteria would be censorship, and a violation of his freedom of speech. Yet if someone were to ever say "I conditionally support censorship and the removal of freedom of speech", they would be labeled as a book burning Nazi and asked if they knew where de fuhrer was buried.

This is why their employment in situations like this one is routinely mocked. There are a lot of ways to describe what is happening, but some calamity involving freedom of speech is not one of them.

so the reason that saying that freedom of speech is alarmist in this situation, where a subreddit that mainly keeps its stuff to its subreddit and does everything it can to ensure that there is no harassment done to the people it mocks and that it doesn't brigade any other subs and is clearly labeled so you what to expect in there, is because of a situation in which a person is intentionally causing a disruption in a government building (assuming you mean public school) that would be a direct insult to multiple people that have no reason to expect anything like that would happen there.

look, I get that there are going to have to be some limits to freedom of speech, but making fun of people who will almost certainly never hear you mocking them is not one of those limits.

 

[Nikolaz72]

Ellen Pao seeks to do for Reddit what Moot had done for 4chan, ban the topics that people weren't allowed to talk anywhere else on the surface web thus removing what was special about it in the first place in order to make it more appealing to advertisers and increase its worth before reselling it for a profit, probably a 2.7million profit if her sexism sueance scam doesn't work out so she can free her cheat of a husband from the prison he is inevitably going to for stealing money from the elderly.

People can go to https://voat.co/ now if they want freedom of speech. And are doing so in the hundreds of thousands so 'go voat' I suppose, didn't even hear of the thing until they started banning all this crap (I mean Neogaf critisism is banned now, really? Really Ellen Pao? Tell us more about how Neogaf is putting a word in with the advertisers for you.) So good job for making the site smaller, a not insignificant part of Reddit will leave and more than that if subreddits keeps being banned.

As for fatshaming, I'm fat. I took no offense to it, actually they did their upmost to make sure nothing they wrote escaped their subreddit through brigading or otherwise. You'd have to be fat, sensitive, and ACTIVELY SEARCH REDDIT for this subreddit before then making sure you read through all of the comments (Because the worst shaming Isn't even the opening posts) In order to maybe be offended.

Banning that is excessive.

But again, it's all about the money, all about the money, all about the money.

Spoiler

 

[BloatedGuppy]

so the reason that saying that freedom of speech is alarmist in this situation, where a subreddit that mainly keeps its stuff to its subreddit and does everything it can to ensure that there is no harassment done to the people it mocks and that it doesn't brigade any other subs and is clearly labeled so you what to expect in there, is because of a situation in which a person is intentionally causing a disruption in a government building (assuming you mean public school) that would be a direct insult to multiple people that have no reason to expect anything like that would happen there.

The degree to which this is "censorship" is irrelevant, because we're basically picking nits about where it falls on a completely meaningless scale. It's not government induced censorship. No one's rights are being violated. There is no dangerous chilling effect on the populace's right to dissent. It's the owner of a private website exercising their right to modify their TOU. It happens every day. It's an utter non-event, and should be treated as such.

look, I get that there are going to have to be some limits to freedom of speech, but making fun of people who will almost certainly never hear you mocking them is not one of those limits.

No one is stopping them from doing that. They can continue to do so. Their sub reddit was closed. A sub reddit in which people made fun of the overweight was closed. This is not fallacy of worse problems...I'm not telling you that you can't be unhappy...but think about where it falls on the scale of human tragedies, and you'll probably understand why cries of "Censorship! Our Freedoms! Beware! Beware!" are going to result in a lot of rolling eyes.

PS - I put the over under on the first appearance of Niemoller's "First they came" poem at ~50 posts.

 

[The Lunatic]

So, um... Why should I be sad that reddit shut down some of the shittier sub-reddits, exactly? Because they left some shitty ones open? Boo-fucking-hoo. Some shitty ones are still gone, that is reason enough to celebrate. You know what I call this? Not "censorship". I call it "a decent start".

The same could be said about Escapist Usergroups, I'm sure. Particularly ones that are fangroups of people who defend paedophiles, and claim men can't be raped. Or have their entire purpose based around mocking other users of the forum.

However, I imagine you'd be a bit more defensive of those.

 

[NiPah]

*People commenting on a non-government owned site claiming that the owner/creators decision to remove content from site is 'censorship'/'violation of free speech'*

*I cry for the future of humanity again*

I've seen this misconception a couple of times, censorship doesn't have to be the act of a government agency, when a record label releases a "censored" version of an album they have by definition censored their own work, you can also have self censorship, company self censorship, and certainly government censorship among many many other types.

Now the cry of "violation of free speech" is another issue, most definitions define it as "the right of people to express their opinions publicly without governmental interference, subject to the laws against libel, incitement to violence or rebellion, etc.", so by definition you'd have to argue that those who run Reddit community constitute a government, that's a pretty big stretch so this is indeed false.

Now stop crying for the future of humanity, if you're going to base your snarky comments off old Critical Miss comics make sure Gray and Cory got their argument correct.

 

[Nikolaz72]

Question is, how long until Ellen Pao dares close down http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/

Neogaf subreddit already closed down in secret (Unmentioned) next to the fph subreddit, its just a matter of time.

 

[chadachada123]

Can't bring myself to care in the slightest. The people frequenting those subreddits seem lovely (obvious sarcasm) and totally deserve a place to masturbate to the corpses of women and dead animals and call people niggers.

You know what? The internet is a big place, if they want, they can get their corpse pictures and their decapitated cats and their racism elsewhere. Kinda makes me glad the NSA exists (wow never thought I'd say that) just for the tiny chance that some of these people are being put on watch lists.

Read again. The dead women/animals and SRS harassment subreddits are still open. It was just a fat people shaming one and a few other choice ones that got shut down.

 

[BreakfastMan]

So, um... Why should I be sad that reddit shut down some of the shittier sub-reddits, exactly? Because they left some shitty ones open? Boo-fucking-hoo. Some shitty ones are still gone, that is reason enough to celebrate. You know what I call this? Not "censorship". I call it "a decent start".

The same could be said about Escapist Usergroups, I'm sure. Particularly ones that are fangroups of people who defend paedophiles, and claim men can't be raped. Or have their entire purpose based around mocking other users of the forum.

However, I imagine you'd be a bit more defensive of those.

Spare me your grandstanding nonsense.

And seriously, what is the danger if this is unevenly applied? Or never invoked again? Reddit is only slightly improved instead of massively improved? I don't get why this is an issue. Nor do I get why people assume everything is going to be perfect and instantly fixed when a company says it is going to make improvements. That isn't how real life works.

 

[Bat Vader]

I'm a bit confused was the fat people hate one about mocking fat people in the thread or about mocking fat people in real life and then posting it in the thread? Personally I find mocking someone for any reason to be a disgusting thing and that anyone who mocks someone or tortures animals is a piece of scum and less than a human being. At the same time though I believe people also have a right to freedom of speech and should be able to discuss whatever they want to discuss. If Reddit prides itself on freedom of speech it needs to allow stuff like that whether someone agrees or disagrees with it.

Since Reddit has a CEO I am guessing it is privately owned and considered private property?

 

[Kolby Jack]

I'll never understand people's incredibly overzealous attitudes when it comes to Reddit. Apparently it's not allowed to change, ever, even if said change is just removing platforms for assholes to be assholes. Assholes have every right to be assholes, and reddit has every right to make them take it somewhere else. Your freedom of speech is guaranteed by the government, not businesses. People really need to get that through their thick skulls.

People will argue "SLIPPERY SLOPE!" but such a knee-jerk reaction helps nobody, and keeps the assholes of society from learning lessons. There is a big difference between removing forums exclusively for making fun of people and actual suppression of ideas.

I mean, consider if these people were actually brave enough to say things like this in real life (HA!), and were asked to leave by the owner of whatever establishment they're in. You'd probably applaud the owner, or at least wouldn't mind their removal of those dickheads. If not, well congratulations, you're also a dickhead. Please take some time to think about your life and the lives of those around you.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

If they're gonna take those Subreddits down they sure as hell could do a more thorough job considering there's much worse that's easily accessible on their site. In other news, r/Kappa is also apparently being investigated in this Reddit cleanup. Which is both hilarious and also kind of sad for me.

Doesn't affect me beyond being a little more leery of Reddit. I've still never made an account there.

 

[spartenX]

so the reason that saying that freedom of speech is alarmist in this situation, where a subreddit that mainly keeps its stuff to its subreddit and does everything it can to ensure that there is no harassment done to the people it mocks and that it doesn't brigade any other subs and is clearly labeled so you what to expect in there, is because of a situation in which a person is intentionally causing a disruption in a government building (assuming you mean public school) that would be a direct insult to multiple people that have no reason to expect anything like that would happen there.

The degree to which this is "censorship" is irrelevant, because we're basically picking nits about where it falls on a completely meaningless scale. It's not government induced censorship. No one's rights are being violated. There is no dangerous chilling effect on the populace's right to dissent. It's the owner of a private website exercising their right to modify their TOU. It happens every day. It's an utter non-event, and should be treated as such.

who cares if its not government induced censorship? the fact is that they decided to ban a subreddit that was not actually harming anyone, for arbitrary reasons. that is still censorship, and it is still a problem, especially on a site that allows other subreddits that actually do directly harass people.

look, I get that there are going to have to be some limits to freedom of speech, but making fun of people who will almost certainly never hear you mocking them is not one of those limits.

No one is stopping them from doing that. They can continue to do so. Their sub reddit was closed. A sub reddit in which people made fun of the overweight was closed. This is not fallacy of worse problems...I'm not telling you that you can't be unhappy...but think about where it falls on the scale of human tragedies, and you'll probably understand why cries of "Censorship! Our Freedoms! Beware! Beware!" are going to result in a lot of rolling eyes.

PS - I put the over under on the first appearance of Niemoller's "First they came" poem at ~50 posts.

so what its not a big problem? Its still an issue, and using "censorship" and "freedom of speech" to describe the stuff going on makes sense because that's what it is. just because its a small issue does not mean that we stop using those words describe the situation if they fit.

 

[The Lunatic]

Spare me your grandstanding nonsense.

And seriously, what is the danger if this is unevenly applied? Or never invoked again? Reddit is only slightly improved instead of massively improved? I don't get why this is an issue. Nor do I get why people assume everything is going to be perfect and instantly fixed when a company says it is going to make improvements. That isn't how real life works.

Then, to put it bluntly, you don't understand freedom of speech. Regardless of what people say, they have a right to say it. I mean, sure, we may wish they wouldn't, but, the important part is allowing them to say it.

The reason for this, is because, if one ever finds themselves on the opposite side of things, and having an opinion that is unpopular, say for example, being in a fan group of a man who defends paedophilia and thinks men can't be raped, there is a freedom to have those opinions, regardless of how lowly others think of you for doing so.

It's an ideology, and I'm not going to claim to be particularly good at explaining it, but, simply, if one imagines applying the dearness they hold for having usergroups which mock other people on the forums to another subject, and then some entity tells you that's not okay any more.

I'm a bit confused was the fat people hate one about mocking fat people in the thread or about mocking fat people in real life and then posting it in the thread?

The subreddit was basically;

"Here's an image of an extremely fat person."

"Gross."

"Muh condishuns."

 

[Kolby Jack]

so the reason that saying that freedom of speech is alarmist in this situation, where a subreddit that mainly keeps its stuff to its subreddit and does everything it can to ensure that there is no harassment done to the people it mocks and that it doesn't brigade any other subs and is clearly labeled so you what to expect in there, is because of a situation in which a person is intentionally causing a disruption in a government building (assuming you mean public school) that would be a direct insult to multiple people that have no reason to expect anything like that would happen there.

The degree to which this is "censorship" is irrelevant, because we're basically picking nits about where it falls on a completely meaningless scale. It's not government induced censorship. No one's rights are being violated. There is no dangerous chilling effect on the populace's right to dissent. It's the owner of a private website exercising their right to modify their TOU. It happens every day. It's an utter non-event, and should be treated as such.

who cares if its not government induced censorship? the fact is that they decided to ban a subreddit that was not actually harming anyone, for arbitrary reasons. that is still censorship, and it is still a problem, especially on a site that allows other subreddits that actually do directly harass people.

I'm not the sort of guy who would refer to basic human decency as an "arbitrary reason" and it's mildly worrying that you apparently are.

 

[spartenX]

so the reason that saying that freedom of speech is alarmist in this situation, where a subreddit that mainly keeps its stuff to its subreddit and does everything it can to ensure that there is no harassment done to the people it mocks and that it doesn't brigade any other subs and is clearly labeled so you what to expect in there, is because of a situation in which a person is intentionally causing a disruption in a government building (assuming you mean public school) that would be a direct insult to multiple people that have no reason to expect anything like that would happen there.

The degree to which this is "censorship" is irrelevant, because we're basically picking nits about where it falls on a completely meaningless scale. It's not government induced censorship. No one's rights are being violated. There is no dangerous chilling effect on the populace's right to dissent. It's the owner of a private website exercising their right to modify their TOU. It happens every day. It's an utter non-event, and should be treated as such.

who cares if its not government induced censorship? the fact is that they decided to ban a subreddit that was not actually harming anyone, for arbitrary reasons. that is still censorship, and it is still a problem, especially on a site that allows other subreddits that actually do directly harass people.

I'm not the sort of guy who would refer to basic human decency as an "arbitrary reason" and it's mildly worrying that you apparently are.

arbitrary considering that it was banned for violating this rule "Keep Everyone Safe: You agree to not intentionally jeopardize the health and safety of others or yourself." despite the fact that there has been no actual reports of that sub (either individual posters, or as a whole) violating said rule or even harassing anyone, while other subs like r/shitredditsays have been known to actually go out of there way to brigade other subs, send threats, and even directly get people fired.

while I don't come close to thinking highly of the people who used that sub (hence my quote in the threads second post) they did not cause anyone harm, and did not violate the rule they are being accused of violating while, while other subs that are much closer to violating those rule are still being left alone.

 

[Bat Vader]

Spare me your grandstanding nonsense.

And seriously, what is the danger if this is unevenly applied? Or never invoked again? Reddit is only slightly improved instead of massively improved? I don't get why this is an issue. Nor do I get why people assume everything is going to be perfect and instantly fixed when a company says it is going to make improvements. That isn't how real life works.

Then, to put it bluntly, you don't understand freedom of speech. Regardless of what people say, they have a right to say it. I mean, sure, we may wish they wouldn't, but, the important part is allowing them to say it.

The reason for this, is because, if one ever finds themselves on the opposite side of things, and having an opinion that is unpopular, say for example, being in a fan group of a man who defends paedophilia and thinks men can't be raped, there is a freedom to have those opinions, regardless of how lowly others think of you for doing so.

It's an ideology, and I'm not going to claim to be particularly good at explaining it, but, simply, if one imagines applying the dearness they hold for having usergroups which mock other people on the forums to another subject, and then some entity tells you that's not okay any more.

I'm a bit confused was the fat people hate one about mocking fat people in the thread or about mocking fat people in real life and then posting it in the thread?

The subreddit was basically;

"Here's an image of an extremely fat person."

"Gross."

"Muh condishuns."

I'm pretty sure mocking another user on here while in a user group is against the rules and can get that person moderated if it is reported.

 

[Compatriot Block]

I don't even know how to respond to the people willingly comparing themselves to horrifyingly racist subreddits. How can you possibly think that "Oh yeah? If you ban us then why didn't you ban the subreddits about hating black people?" would be met with anything other than "Yeah, those are both awful things, they should both be banned"?

Jesus Christ, this is a group literally standing up for their "right" to hate people. Their name was fatpeopleHATE. They were harrassing individual Imgur staff. The CEO came to them to talk, was relentlessly mocked and immediately banned. Their response to being shut down for spreading their hate outside of their own corner was to spread even more hate in an even larger area.

Is this really the hill people want to make their stands on? If this was a group ridiculing gamers (with pictures and names) and talking about how disgusting they all are, would you be standing up for them?

EDIT: I also love the free speech angle coming from a subreddit who literally had a "no dissent" rule.

 

[The Lunatic]

Neofag was a comedy gold mine, it was nice to put faces to the simping cornballs who run around Neogaf shitting up any thread regarding political, gender, and race matters like they have life all figured out.

 

[Kolby Jack]

so the reason that saying that freedom of speech is alarmist in this situation, where a subreddit that mainly keeps its stuff to its subreddit and does everything it can to ensure that there is no harassment done to the people it mocks and that it doesn't brigade any other subs and is clearly labeled so you what to expect in there, is because of a situation in which a person is intentionally causing a disruption in a government building (assuming you mean public school) that would be a direct insult to multiple people that have no reason to expect anything like that would happen there.

The degree to which this is "censorship" is irrelevant, because we're basically picking nits about where it falls on a completely meaningless scale. It's not government induced censorship. No one's rights are being violated. There is no dangerous chilling effect on the populace's right to dissent. It's the owner of a private website exercising their right to modify their TOU. It happens every day. It's an utter non-event, and should be treated as such.

who cares if its not government induced censorship? the fact is that they decided to ban a subreddit that was not actually harming anyone, for arbitrary reasons. that is still censorship, and it is still a problem, especially on a site that allows other subreddits that actually do directly harass people.

I'm not the sort of guy who would refer to basic human decency as an "arbitrary reason" and it's mildly worrying that you apparently are.

arbitrary considering that it was banned for violating this rule "Keep Everyone Safe: You agree to not intentionally jeopardize the health and safety of others or yourself." despite the fact that there has been no actual reports of that sub (either individual posters, or as a whole) violating said rule or even harassing anyone, while other subs like r/shitredditsays have been known to actually go out of there way to brigade other subs, send threats, and even directly get people fired.

while I don't come close to thinking highly of the people who used that sub (hence my quote in the threads second post) they did not cause anyone harm, and did not violate the rule they are being accused of violating while, while other subs that are much closer to violating those rule are still being left alone.

"Harm" is a difficult thing to measure. If a fat person got on that subreddit, I imagine that would be pretty not-fun for them. If they were of the sort of disposition, they could do something drastic in response. Highly unlikely, sure, and by no means should reddit coddle sensitive people, but I'm just pointing out that it "not causing anyone harm" is probably not true. Words hurt. That's a fact of life.