Reddit Bans Subreddits about Making Fun of Fat People, Neogaf, and others.

[Rednog]

Bloody hell, fifty posts into this thread, fucking fifty, and you're the first (and seemingly only) person to actually bring this up.

http://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/39bpam/removing_harassing_subreddits/

It's in the fucking announcement people.


This isn't some nefarious conspiracy by them no good SJWs to get rid of offensive subreddits, it's specifically about subreddits where the moderators aren't doing anything to stop harassment and doxing of individuals by thier community. That is why all these other even more vile subreddits are still around, because while their content might be disgusting/offensive, it's not harassment.
And before any of you begin listing other subreddits that have a history of harassment but have not been banned, remember that this has only just transpired, so you can't expect these new rules to have been enforced in every instance at this point.

How do you know the mods did nothing about it? The subreddit had very specific rules about this,no doxxing, no harassing and no cross subreddit linking. The users should have been banned but the subreddit shouldnt have been deleted. Thats like blowing up a vietnamese village to get at the vietcong.

Considering the mods themselves were removed from reddit, it would point to them not doing their jobs. Considering they went as far as to flat out ban the mods of FPH, one would hazard a guess that the mods probably were not only failing at their jobs but also participating in violating actions.

Mods going unchecked in subreddits is nothing new, it just takes lots of reporting to actual real mods to come in and put a stop to it.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Bloody hell, fifty posts into this thread, fucking fifty, and you're the first (and seemingly only) person to actually bring this up.

http://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/39bpam/removing_harassing_subreddits/

It's in the fucking announcement people.


This isn't some nefarious conspiracy by them no good SJWs to get rid of offensive subreddits, it's specifically about subreddits where the moderators aren't doing anything to stop harassment and doxing of individuals by thier community. That is why all these other even more vile subreddits are still around, because while their content might be disgusting/offensive, it's not harassment.
And before any of you begin listing other subreddits that have a history of harassment but have not been banned, remember that this has only just transpired, so you can't expect these new rules to have been enforced in every instance at this point.

How do you know the mods did nothing about it? The subreddit had very specific rules about this,no doxxing, no harassing and no cross subreddit linking. The users should have been banned but the subreddit shouldnt have been deleted. Thats like blowing up a vietnamese village to get at the vietcong.

They were banned under these new rules. Maybe the mods weren't doing their job, or maybe the people at reddit are full of shit, but what other ulterior motives they supposed have here? If this isn't what they claim it is, then what is it exactly? As many others have pointed out, the actual content of these subreddits isn't nearly as bad as many other subreddits, so I don't believe they are simply culling offensive content.
While I'm open to the idea that they are simply bullshiting here and singling out these subreddits for no good reason, I'm not going to fabricate some kind of SJW conspiracy here as many people in this thread and on reddit seem to be doing.

 

[Somekindofgold]

Considering the mods themselves were removed from reddit, it would point to them not doing their jobs. Considering they went as far as to flat out ban the mods of FPH, one would hazard a guess that the mods probably were not only failing at their jobs but also participating in violating actions.

That is one possibility, and if that was the case why shut the entire thing down? unless they're saying everyone of the 1000+ FPH subreddit was doxxing then there was no reason to shut down the subreddit. Track the users doing it and ban them but dont get rid of the god damn community that these people have created, even if it was distasteful. Discuss it with the people damn it, appoint new mods, dont just outright delete it. And if it was about the mods and not the subreddits content itself the new versions of FPH that were created BY NEW PEOPLE wouldnt have been deleted either. Harassment is the excuse but it isnt the reason.

They were banned under these new rules. Maybe the mods weren't doing their job, or maybe the people at reddit are full of shit, but what other ulterior motives they supposed have here? If this isn't what they claim it is, then what is it exactly? As many others have pointed out, the actual content of these subreddits isn't nearly as bad as many other subreddits, so I don't believe they are simply culling offensive content.
While I'm open to the idea that they are simply bullshiting here and singling out these subreddits for no good reason, I'm not going to fabricate some kind of SJW conspiracy here as many people in this thread and on reddit seem to be doing.

Once again, get new mods, or dont delete the new ones designed to take FPH's place.

I'm not saying this is a conspiracy, I'm saying this is Ellen Pao flexing her muscles. We know she's..well..crazy. The interviews about her taking away wage negotiations because its 'sexist' and that she refuses to hire people who dont believe in the nebulous term she calls 'diversity', this is her taking out subreddits she disagrees with and hiding it under harassment.

The only ulterior motive here is a nutjob CEO ruining the website to twist it into her vision. There is no SJW illuminati behind this, there is no secret plan to gentrify the site to sell it, this is just a crazy person with too much power ruining it for everyone else.

 

[Areloch]

This line of thinking seems weird to me. If a private site's censorship of it's userbase is acceptable on the grounds that they could just go elsewhere, couldn't we change a few words and do this:

Eh, it's their country. If they want to ban certain discussions that's their prerogative. By all means, tell them their decision is wrong if you believe it to be, but I wouldn't call this censorship. There are other countries still available to express these ideas and USA's Government isn't stopping anyone from taking their business there.

They clearly want to change the country's image and clean up its content/community. I can hardly fault it for that, honestly. USA's rep is seemingly worse than 4chan these days.

And justify government level censorship too?

The difference is, of course, perspective. Not being able to post certain (rubbish) kinds of stuff on a certain website is not really comparable to being deported.

Well, I didn't say deported. I was drawing a direct parallel to "You could just go to a different internet community" and "You could just move to a different country". As I said, that feels like a weak argument for why one should just suck it up in the face of a possible censorship issue.

Secondly, sure, it's really easy to justify some topics being shut down when they're rubbish. But this logic is universal. If a site were to shut down the discussion of minority rights, or police abuse, or other more serious issues that SHOULD be talked about, the same logic would apply.

As said, I'm fully aware that privately-owned sites' moderation is a pricklier issue to navigate than governmental censorship, but they aren't completely independent.

I feel it's totally fair for people to look at a site shutting down discussions for whatever reason and think "I don't think that's OK". But anytime the subject of possible censorship comes up on these forums, a hail of people come in with the "it's not possible to censor if it's not a government" and the like and the conversation rapidly swirls the drain.

To be more specifically topical, I think the notion of removing subreddits that violate the no-harassment policies and their moderation refuses to correct it is a decent idea, but I'm not yet sure it'll be handled deftly. Like all moderation issues, a lot of it is left to personal discretion, so it boils to the whims of who holds the stick about how much to tolerate.

I don't think it's worth getting worked up into an apocalyptic fervor or anything, but I think it's fair to point at it and keep an eye on it/discuss it.

Captcha: big brother

Haha, captcha. You so silly.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

They were banned under these new rules. Maybe the mods weren't doing their job, or maybe the people at reddit are full of shit, but what other ulterior motives they supposed have here? If this isn't what they claim it is, then what is it exactly? As many others have pointed out, the actual content of these subreddits isn't nearly as bad as many other subreddits, so I don't believe they are simply culling offensive content.
While I'm open to the idea that they are simply bullshiting here and singling out these subreddits for no good reason, I'm not going to fabricate some kind of SJW conspiracy here as many people in this thread and on reddit seem to be doing.

Once again, get new mods, or dont delete the new ones designed to take FPH's place.

I'm not saying this is a conspiracy, I'm saying this is Ellen Pao flexing her muscles. We know she's..well..crazy. The interviews about her taking away wage negotiations because its 'sexist' and that she refuses to hire people who dont believe in the nebulous term she calls 'diversity', this is her taking out subreddits she disagrees with and hiding it under harassment.

The only ulterior motive here is a nutjob CEO ruining the website to twist it into her vision. There is no SJW illuminati behind this, there is no secret plan to gentrify the site to sell it, this is just a crazy person with too much power ruining it for everyone else.

Fair enough, but I do question the extent to which this will actually be a problem in the future, and feel the current freakout is a bit over the top. While most don't really care about he lose of FatPeopleHate and see more as an example of what may come, if it does come then I can assure you people will begin finding a new site very quickly, or reddit will be finding itself new staff.

Or to put it another way, people have made it known that they won't stand for this type of thing if it begins to overreach its bounds, so I don't think reddit would be suicidal enough to go after after more popular/less controversial subreddits.

 

[Jux]

So reddit is a little less of a cesspool now? Good on them I suppose. And there aren't enough laughing gifs on the internet to encapsulate how I feel about people bemoaning this as some great attack on freedom of speech. Reddit is a privately owned platform, there are plenty of other places for people to spew their hate on the internet.

You understand that all these people are still on reddit, right? They just removed the containment boards.

'Containment boards', that's a nice euphemism. Yes, I understand perfectly well that they weren't banned, not sure why you'd be under the impression otherwise.

Here's hoping more shitty subreddit boards get banned/removed/etc. Cheers.

 

[Somekindofgold]

Fair enough, but I do question the extent to which this will actually be a problem in the future, and feel the current freakout is a bit over the top. While most don't really care about he lose of FatPeopleHate and see more as an example of what may come, if it does come then I can assure you people will begin finding a new site very quickly, or reddit will be finding itself new staff.

People are already finding a new site, I said it earlier Voat got hit so hard with new users the servers almost exploded, and while this wont 'kill' Reddit, it is hastening its demise. If they continue down the path they're going then they really will be digg 2.0, and their case will lend credence to the idea that time is just a flat circle.

I wouldnt say the freakout is over the top, I'd say its justified. A lot of reddit users who are pitching a fit saw digg fall, they've seen this happen all before and they're sick of seeing it happen, they want to stay on reddit not have it fall into the pits of 'oh hey I remember that site..' that napster and myspace currently occupy. I feel bad for them honestly, its not easy coming to terms with the fact that everyone is a giant asshole willing to crush the things you like for the sake of their agenda.

 

[Ishal]

I mean... Reddit can do what it wants, it's privately owned website. Also, isn't it a for profit one? Maybe there was a monetary decision behind it. Seems like a half measure to ban just those and leave other ones untouched.

Reddit was going by the wayside anyway, it's the nature of certain sites and of the internet at large. And yes, there are more contributing factors. But... if this really was all about "muh feelings" as some believe, then it just won't matter.

These people will find other places to dwell, but before that they're going to spill out onto other places and cause trouble.

"Oh they'll just get banned"

Sure, eventually. But the damage will have been done. On twitter you usually have to see their insults before you block them and report their tweet. I'm sure the same is true for other sites. They'll just go elsewhere, but not before burning down a few buildings and overturning some cars, so to speak. When you let these people have a space, then it's better.

The whole thing seems silly to me.

 

[Jux]

Well, I didn't say deported. I was drawing a direct parallel to "You could just go to a different internet community" and "You could just move to a different country". As I said, that feels like a weak argument for why one should just suck it up in the face of a possible censorship issue.

Awful analogy. The comparative burden placed is so different it renders the analogy completely ineffectual. One can literally find snother internet community without moving from their chair, nevermind the fact that there is zero financial burden placed on the internet community changer as well.

 

[spartenX]

Snip

Snip

Here's a thread from Reddit, with some posts explaining the official reason the admins gave. Remember, that subreddit had been around for a long time, but was only banned now.

http://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/39bzdf/why_was_rfatpeoplehate_along_with_several_other/

In short: the Imgur staff decided to block pictures submitted from fatpeople hate from hitting Imgur's front page. This made the subreddit users mad, so they found pictures of Imgur staff and put them on the sidebar to ridicule and harassment. Reddit already doesn't like singling out individuals, and doing it to the staff of a website that's pretty integral to Reddit tipped them over the very fine line they had been toeing.

And for what it's worth, I think they should have banned SRS a long time ago, but that's not a valid defense for other people. I'd rather both gone than neither.

so they directly messaged the Imgur staff then? I'm only asking because you specifically noted that they harassed them, and frankly if they didn't actually go after these people outside the sub, then all that does is offer more proof that they were dicks and doesn't suddenly mean that they broke the rule that they are accused of breaking.

 

[Areloch]

Well, I didn't say deported. I was drawing a direct parallel to "You could just go to a different internet community" and "You could just move to a different country". As I said, that feels like a weak argument for why one should just suck it up in the face of a possible censorship issue.

Awful analogy. The comparative burden placed is so different it renders the analogy completely ineffectual. One can literally find snother internet community without moving from their chair, nevermind the fact that there is zero financial burden placed on the internet community changer as well.

The relative cost is not the point. Besides, depending on WHAT you want to say, the cost could very well be prohibitive if no place wants to host one's terrible opinions and the only other option is to invest money into web and server hosting in order to broadcast one's inane dribble.

That, and what of the flipside? What if you're rich? Moving to a different country could potentially be incredibly easy.

Is the ROOT comparison of the analogy incorrect? The point of "Oh, you could just go elsewhere if you don't like it"?

Because potential costs aside, I'm fairly positive that part has weight.

 

[Somekindofgold]

Well /r/neogafinaction just got deleted. It had broken no rules and had nothing to do with /r/neofag (that was part of the original deletions). So..how are people going to spin this as harassment now?

The sub was 6 months old with an automoderator working to enforce rules. It literally did nothing wrong except be critical of neogaf. This isnt them 'banning behavior, not ideas' , this is straight up banning ideas, in this case anything critical of neogaf.

 

[Alterego-X]

Fair enough, but I do question the extent to which this will actually be a problem in the future, and feel the current freakout is a bit over the top. While most don't really care about he lose of FatPeopleHate and see more as an example of what may come, if it does come then I can assure you people will begin finding a new site very quickly, or reddit will be finding itself new staff.

People are already finding a new site, I said it earlier Voat got hit so hard with new users the servers almost exploded, and while this wont 'kill' Reddit, it is hastening its demise. If they continue down the path they're going then they really will be digg 2.0, and their case will lend credence to the idea that time is just a flat circle.
.

While in general terms, it's true that all websites decline eventually, Digg is an extremely unfortunate comparison.

Digg's decline was all about admin inaction in the face of rampaging downvote brigades like the Digg Patriots.

Banning reddit brigading might somehow cause reddit's decline too, but that would be an ironic opposite to Digg that declined because of allowing them to happen.

 

[Alterego-X]

Well, I didn't say deported. I was drawing a direct parallel to "You could just go to a different internet community" and "You could just move to a different country". As I said, that feels like a weak argument for why one should just suck it up in the face of a possible censorship issue.

If not the fact that they can just move into another community, then WHAT is the excuse that made it OK for fph to ban posters who disagreed with their stance?

 

[Supernova1138]

Apparently the Reddit admins have now banned r/whalewatching which was not a Fat People Hate clone but a subreddit about actual whale watching. At this point it's pretty clear the admins aren't even actually looking at the subreddits they are banning, and are simply purging anything that has a title that remotely resembles the the subreddits they banned yesterday.

 

[Areloch]

Well, I didn't say deported. I was drawing a direct parallel to "You could just go to a different internet community" and "You could just move to a different country". As I said, that feels like a weak argument for why one should just suck it up in the face of a possible censorship issue.

If not the fact that they can just move into another community, then WHAT is the excuse that made it OK for fph to ban posters who disagreed with their stance?

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what your asking here.

Are you asking how I feel about moderators on certain subreddits banning people who hold different opinions than them?

If so, I think it's pretty dickish and don't think they should do it.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I don't really frequent reddit, like at all, but still enjoy the occasional content that filters out of it into other mediums, like youtube and forums and stuff.

With that in mind, it's very much a "wait and see" approach for me on this one.

Here's a crazy idea, lads/ladies. Let's see what they do and don't ban in the coming weeks, THEN start raising our collective hackles if things take a turn for the Machiavellian-y-ness-...ness.

As for the specific bannages taking place? I subscribe to that one idea/quote (mis)attributed to Voltaire.

IMO, fuck the fatty shaming folks, but so long as they're not harassing folks, whatever. If they were? Fuck the individuals and warn the mods. Repeat offenses = Action taken. Same goes for the Neofag people.

...Though I hardly see the need for the latter, since Neogaf already does an excellent job of debasing itself.

Reddit as a whole? Basic philosophy for most things, "You take the bad with the good."

/r/learnjapanese/ [http://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/]

Ooh. Thank you!

I had no idea that existed and have been meaning to take a stab at learning some. Now I have no excuse not to!

[small]You bastard.[/small]

See? Bad with the good. I'm sure this won't go south-

Well /r/neogafinaction just got deleted. It had broken no rules and had nothing to do with /r/neofag (that was part of the original deletions). So..how are people going to spin this as harassment now?

The sub was 6 months old with an automoderator working to enforce rules. It literally did nothing wrong except be critical of neogaf. This isnt them 'banning behavior, not ideas' , this is straight up banning ideas, in this case anything critical of neogaf.

Apparently the Reddit admins have now banned r/whalewatching which was not a Fat People Hate clone but a subreddit about actual whale watching. At this point it's pretty clear the admins aren't even actually looking at the subreddits they are banning, and are simply purging anything that has a title that remotely resembles the the subreddits they banned yesterday.

-Oh.

Well, consider my hackles officially disturbed.

 

[Somekindofgold]

Apparently the Reddit admins have now banned r/whalewatching which was not a Fat People Hate clone but a subreddit about actual whale watching. At this point it's pretty clear the admins aren't even actually looking at the subreddits they are banning, and are simply purging anything that has a title that remotely resembles the the subreddits they banned yesterday.

HARASSMENT! The whales were perpetuating the patriarchy...or something.

Jesus christ just burn it down, if we cant enjoy whale watching without worrying about some trigger happy admin deleting it because he thinks it meant fat people then reddit is done.

 

[Jux]

Well, I didn't say deported. I was drawing a direct parallel to "You could just go to a different internet community" and "You could just move to a different country". As I said, that feels like a weak argument for why one should just suck it up in the face of a possible censorship issue.

Awful analogy. The comparative burden placed is so different it renders the analogy completely ineffectual. One can literally find snother internet community without moving from their chair, nevermind the fact that there is zero financial burden placed on the internet community changer as well.

The relative cost is not the point. Besides, depending on WHAT you want to say, the cost could very well be prohibitive if no place wants to host one's terrible opinions and the only other option is to invest money into web and server hosting in order to broadcast one's inane dribble.

That, and what of the flipside? What if you're rich? Moving to a different country could potentially be incredibly easy.

Is the ROOT comparison of the analogy incorrect? The point of "Oh, you could just go elsewhere if you don't like it"?

Because potential costs aside, I'm fairly positive that part has weight.

It only carries weight relative to the context it's used in. There is no substantial burden placed on the asshole that just wants to make fun of fat people, and the 'but what ifs...' fall equally flat because thst isn't the reality of the situation.

If you want more of a reason why the analogy is just plain bad, we could get into the idea of the social contract between people and the government and how that fundamentally differs with a private platform and its users. Any way you want to cut it, it just doesn't work.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Apparently the Reddit admins have now banned r/whalewatching which was not a Fat People Hate clone but a subreddit about actual whale watching. At this point it's pretty clear the admins aren't even actually looking at the subreddits they are banning, and are simply purging anything that has a title that remotely resembles the the subreddits they banned yesterday.

Okay, I take back what I said, it seems it didn't take long for this entire operation to go to shit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/whalewatching/
http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/39g65l/reddit_bans_rwhalewatching_thinking_its_a_clone/