Regarding Santa Claus [NO KIDS ALLOWED]

[AhumbleKnight]

OT: It's harmless fun. The OP is still surly about a little white lie. Can we just move on and let kids be kids?

Why do we need Santa for kids to be kids. Kids have awesome imaginations and create their own interesting fun games every day. They don't need their parents to lie to them for that to happen.

 

[The Virgo]

Same reason parents force their kids to believe in Jesus, because they can be manipulated into believing stupid crap at a young age.

*snip*

Woah, woah, woah, guys, I specifically said not to turn this topic into a debate about God.

Also, no, you may not turn this into a religious debate comparing it to God/Jesus/Moses/Mohammad/etc. We're talking about Santa, not God. Debates between atheists and believers never become more than flame-wars. Thank you for keeping it nice.

Remember reading this? Or did you even bother to read? Please guys, none of that in this thread, because, as I said, debates about God never turn into anything more than flame war.

When i have a son or daughter, im going to trick him/her into thinking im Santa. Say "I'll be back in the morning" and go out the door with a big sack on christmas eve night. ((And then climb in through my bedroom window and go to bed.))

Show up in the morning with snow on my boots, the smell of deer on my clothes and the last few presents in my bag. Then when they think im Santa, i'll tell them you, "cant tell anyone, not even your mother "

Childhood is about fantasy and whimsy. You have to build up all that happiness, so when the soul crushing depression that is High School bares down on you, you have a nice little reserve to fall on. Besides, whats more fun then saying the stupidest thing you can think of to a child and they believe it. "Yeah, People in China have to walk on their hands. If they let go, they fall into space! D: See, the world is a Dodecaoctahedron. And babies come from space! Theyre hidden inside Meteorites!" /worst father ever

XD No, dude, BEST father ever! XD Or at least, best father until they find out it was all bullshit. ;-) I got a book called "Loads More Lies to Tell Small Kids" that was great, like if you change the channel, the person who was on TV dies or that or that the reason there are so many beer cans on beaches is because starfish are always drunk. That's why they're always laying down. XD Best one, though: If they name a hurricane after you, you have to pay for all the damage! >

Also, while we're on the subject, I can't help but link this video ...

Spoiler: A related video ...

My dad hated this because "it was mean to do that because Christmas is such a special time to them, blah, blah, blah ..." Sometimes I really hate his bleeding heart. -_-'

 

[woodaba]

Look this does not matter if it is truth fiction real or fake this santa clause was once adopted as a story of old saint nick from germany where the parents were to poor to promote such an idea where saint nick was an old toy maker that whittled in his free time he gave his creations to kids when he passed by nothing more he became over glorified by being dubbed a saint after his death and renamed santa clause when translated is saintly cause. now it is used to promote consumerism on winter solstice pagan holiday later made to be hedonistic then was made to be christian based giving underlying "tones." Anger is unnecessary in this I personally do not celebrate any holiday due to my religious beliefs saying why have festivities on one given day why can it not be every day what make this day different and don't say christmas cheer or some nonsense like that.

I see Santa didn't give you any punctuation marks for Christmas.

Haha, What? Really, you pity the guy that finds joy in the little things while you're over there thinking that being a cynical egotistical "realist" on every small children's fairytale is the proper way to live a life?

Yeah, I'm envious of you. Sounds like you really are living large over there bud.

I am, actually. What about it? And if it weren't for us cynics, there would be 50 suckers every minute born and 232 to take them.

Hating and questioning every pointless tradition, holiday, and mythical creatures just to prove that you're somehow smarter for pointing out why simple fun things that have never harmed anyone (except you, from the sounds of it) is a laughably pointless way to lead your life.

No, I wasn't harmed by it, but I'm a bit disappointed in my parents who, when I confronted them and told them to tell me the truth about Santa many, many years ago, still lied to me. Bastards.

*snip*

Well hello, JoJo, we meet again.

Hmmm, that's a pretty interesting quote you have there. Of course, I have to wonder, won't the child feel even more bitter after seeing Santa proven to exist in that quote? Maybe she will, maybe she won't. How long ago was that from?

But, name me one person you know who grew up with psychological problems because their parents pervaded a myth.

Well, Ed Gein grew up being raised by a sadistic, religious mother who had him believe that all men were sex-addicts and sinners (not trying to overstep my own rules, just stating a fact). He then became a necrophile and grave robber who made furniture and other things out of skin and body parts (like a belt made of nipples and a lampshade made of skin) and killed two women. Not comparable with Santa, of course, that wasn't my intention at all, but that was a myth he grew up with and it made him insane. Also, Ted Bundy was supposedly abused by his grandfather and was told that his mother was actually his sister and, as a result, felt lied to and angry. We all know how well that worked out. Again, not even comparable with Santa and I would berate anyone who would make a comparison, but you said people who grew up with psychological problems due to believing a myth and Gein is a fine example. Psychological problems because of Santa, though? Not very likely. Bitterness or slight anger? Possible.

Its just harmless fun. Its not tricking you, cause no kid ever actually gets coal. It is something magical for the children and the parent. Have you ever see a child on Christmas morning? I tell you, that sight warmed my cold, black heart. I consider myself a cynic much like you, but this is one issue where I will happily side with the masses. It is something beautiful.

Really? Parents don't actually give coal? Huh. If I had a kid whom I had taught the Santa tradition to and he had been an annoying brat all year, I would put some charcoal in his stocking.

And while I don't doubt that, for some like you, the sight of a magic-filled child on Christmas morning would be a heartwarming scene, I would probably sit there wondering when the hell it was going to be over so I could leave and buy games on Steam on sale for super cheap! Now that's something I believe in! GABEN CLAUS! He has a workshop in Bellevue, Washington and his helpers are programmers, mappers, hat makers and people who run Steam! And the reason he's fat is because he goes around eating all of the milk and cookies! XD

*Episode Three gets put on hold for 50,000 years*

Plus, I remember when I was a kid, one kid in our class had parents like yourself. They always told him that Santa is not real. He grew up pretty much unharmed by it, (his asbergers syndrome, I assume, is unrelated) ...

Tonight on Jerry Springer: I got asbergers from not believing in Santa! XD Sorry, I had to do that! Please continue.

... but one day, he was feeling spiteful, and to a class filled with little kids who were incredibly excited for the arrival of Santa Claus, announced that he was not real. I think we all had an inkling by this stage, (I know I did) but this was the straw that broke the camels back. We were all very angry and very upset.

If your objective is to prevent this from happening, then fair enough. But always remember, if you do this, your child could end up being that jealous, vindictive, asshole that just had to spoil it for everyone.

Well, he certainly was a buzz-killer. That's why I at least put the [NO KIDS ALLOWED] notice on the thread topic. That way, if they come on here and see the "awful" truth, it won't really be my fault. Nor anyone's fault who posted here.

But that's my problem with children and why I don't want any. There's no way to correctly raise one. Something that may not even remotely bother one child may turn one into a paranoid schizophrenic. Let me give you an example:

- "Acid Bath Murderer" John Haigh, as a child, ran outside after a WWII bombing at his London home. The bomb came with "a horrifying shriek, and as I staggered up, bruised and bewildered, a head rolled against my foot." Joel Peter Witkin, a well-known artist who's work is admittedly gruesome but fascinating, experienced the same event after witnessing a car accident. So what makes one person become a serial killer, and another a famous artist? -

link: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/tick/events_5.html

There's just no right way to raise a child. Hence why I don't want one.

And here we come to the crux of it. You sir, hate children. That does not make you a bad person. My first girlfriend despised children. There is no manual that says "Raising Kids for Dummies". However, it is not incredibly difficult to know how to raise a child. You have to be dedicated, you have to be patient, you have to be strong. You make these points about incredibly traumatic events, and bombs, and child abuse. THIS IS FUCKING SANTA CLAUS. Yes, it is a lie. But you know what? WE LIE EVERY DAY. Actors lie as part of their profession! Being traumatised because of the Santa lie is like being traumatised by learning that James Bond is a fictional character. Santa is a harmless, fun thing for parents. As a parent, I know this. You are not a parent. You do not know. You also, as I predict, find children repulsive. Santa claus is NOT FOR YOU. IT IS FOR US. STOP TRYING TO BE A SMARTARSE, AND LET US GO ABOUT OUR BUSINESS.

 

[JoJo]

*snip*

Well hello, JoJo, we meet again.

Hmmm, that's a pretty interesting quote you have there. Of course, I have to wonder, won't the child feel even more bitter after seeing Santa proven to exist in that quote? Maybe she will, maybe she won't. How long ago was that from?

First published in 1897. I doubt she'd feel bitter, there was an article in the Christmas special edition of NewScientist on this subject a couple of years ago, debating whether it was beneficial or not to advocate the Santa myth. The general conclusion was that it's okay, since most kids when they do find out feel mature and grown-up that they are "in on the secret" too rather than disappointed by Santa's lack of existence.

 

[Sectan]

If I didn't know any better, I'd say this is a troll-baited trap.

It's one of those threads that everyone will want to respond to so this guy gets a shiny "OMG YOUR THREAD IS POPULAR" badge.



Anyways, My parents told me about Santa. I believed it until I was 11. I wasn't all heart broken when I found out.

 

[Hosker]

The real question is why not?

 

[DeadFOAM]

OT: It's harmless fun. The OP is still surly about a little white lie. Can we just move on and let kids be kids?

Why do we need Santa for kids to be kids. Kids have awesome imaginations and create their own interesting fun games every day. They don't need their parents to lie to them for that to happen.

I was unaware that belief in Santa was the sole criteria for kids to be kids.

What parent tells their kid everything? Are you saying that kids should be told where babies come from immediately? Will kids be told that a large percentage of the world is in turmoil? Pain, murder, and rape are common?

Santa is a part of childhood. It's a magical and joyous thing that brings happiness to many kids. Life is hard enough.

 

[Biodeamon]

I don't think you really need to put the warning up for kids.

escapist won't let anyone in under 13 and by they've pretty found their dead dad in the chimney in a santa outfit by that age. (you can haz a cookie if you get the reference)

 

[Necron_warrior]

To be fair, I don't understand how a kid knowing Santa doesn't exist would make Christmas any less fun.
I mean, the kids still gonna get presents, that's what's fun about it right?

 

[D Moness]

I don't think you really need to put the warning up for kids.

escapist won't let anyone in under 13 and by they've pretty found their dead dad in the chimney in a santa outfit by that age. (you can haz a cookie if you get the reference)

Wasn't that from the gremlins (been a long time since i saw that but i think it was that).

As for santa , each parent their own (if they tell or do not tell the kids) just do not tell me what i should or should not tell my kids (if i had kids)

 

[lacktheknack]

Spoiler: The Easter Bunny isn't real either.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,;__;,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I SUPPOSE YOU'LL BE TELLING ME THAT THE TOOTH FAIRY DOESN'T EXIST EITHER, YOU MONSTER.

OT: I never believed in Santa Claus, my parents never bothered with him, and I don't see why people keep doing it either. I'm not going to mention him to my kids. They'll have to do what I did... figure stuff out myself when everyone in Kindergarten starts getting misty-eyed in December.

 

[Biodeamon]

I don't think you really need to put the warning up for kids.

escapist won't let anyone in under 13 and by they've pretty found their dead dad in the chimney in a santa outfit by that age. (you can haz a cookie if you get the reference)

Wasn't that from the gremlins (been a long time since i saw that but i think it was that).

As for santa , each parent their own (if they tell or do not tell the kids) just do not tell me what i should or should not tell my kids (if i had kids)

yes, it was from gremlins. here's a cookie

also i think it's best not give my kids false illusions there's aready to many in the world causing too many problems

 

[Varanfan9]

Santa Claus? Who's that. Everyone knows Santa Christ is the only true Christmas Icon.
Honestly though I think its cause it contriputes to a young child's imaginations. Kids want the wymsical and magical not the cold hard reality. Let them learn that as they grow up.

 

[JasonKaotic]

Habit, I suppose. I would just go around telling every kid the truth, but it would probably result in me being pelted with darts by parents.

No need to take it that seriously though. What I just said was joking, in case anyone couldn't tell.

 

[imnot]

Because kids enjoy it I guess.
The easter bunny though, did anyone actually belive that? I mean Santa, sure a jolly old guy I can belive that, the easter bunny? a rabbit who delivers chocolate eggs, presumably because he has nothing better to do before he grows old and dies of miximostosis.

Wow Im really cynical lateley!

Spoiler: A related video ...

My dad hated this because "it was mean to do that because Christmas is such a special time to them, blah, blah, blah ..." Sometimes I really hate his bleeding heart. -_-'

About 4 mins in, that boy was upset because he got a my little pony! ALL BOYS WANT MY LITTLE PONIES DAMMIT!

 

[dave1004]

My parents aren't religious, and we've never actually celebrated Christmas. We give gifts all year around, so...It's kinda pointless. The main thing is, I like seeing kids when they think that Santa is coming. They break out in a big grin, and everyone's happy. They have something to look forwards to, so they stay on their best behavior, which is great for both parents and siblings alike.

Although, yes, Santa is scary as hell. Dude breaks in, eats your food, AND dumps presents off? Brr. I was always confused as a kid, because my friends would all be talking about how "Santa is coming to town", and I'd be all "Lolwut? Santa isn't real", and then get spanked by the teacher. (Seriously, crazy lady used a ruler. Hurt like hell...She hated me, because I hated her french class, and I would just sit in the back all day, reading novels. note that I was about nine at the time, so she always believed that I wasn't actually reading that Stephen King or Dragonlance...Heh. What a prick.)

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Snip

So basically you are saying you are fine with kids christmases being ruined being laughed at because "Santa is a lie!". Then say that your dad has a bleeding heart because he actually feels for those kids? Personally I really don't think people who don't have children, are not a child, hate children and don't want children should be saying that the most magical thing a children has is bullshit because you think they should have the cold hard truth?

I would love to make you watch the difference between the reactions of a kid being told that santa brought their presents or being told that "A bunch of poor people in china made this and then I went out to the store and fought with other parents for a toy that will probably be in the bin next week!". You sir should not be talking about what children can and can't believe in. Santa is one of the most magical and whimsical things a child has and taking it away would be f'ing devastating for a child.

 

[Olivia Faraday]

I'm not having kids because I don't have any interest in devoting eighteen years of my life to taking care of them. That's a level of commitment that I just am not interested in. I'll borrow my sister's and spoil them rotten, instead. Best of both worlds. That said, if I did, I probably wouldn't tell them there's a Santa Claus until I was old enough to see if their personalities would enjoy the myth or not.

Don't get me wrong. I love magic. I'm a 26 year old woman and my room is decorated with unicorns. But not every child is the right fit for the Santa myth.

Personally, as a kid, I didn't like Santa! He didn't creep me out or anything. There was just something about him that seemed wrong to me. It didn't make sense that he did all those houses a night, and how could he eat 12 billion cookies without getting sick? What made reindeer fly? What distinguished the arbitrary difference between good and bad girls and boys? Nobody could provide any satisfactory answers and always seemed annoyed that I was asking the questions. Christmas became frustrating for me as I felt myself constantly being pushed to stop asking questions, which was a part of my personality.

I got more and more resentment for Santa because of how I wasn't allowed to question his authority, until I started running experiments. I tried to see if I could trip Santa up. When I went to sit on his lap at the mall, I asked him for a bunch of stuff I had no interest in. I gave Santa one list and my parents another. When none of the gifts I'd asked Santa for showed up, and all the gifts I'd asked my parents for had, my theory was proven true!

I confronted them about it. I was so mad at them. Why hadn't they just told me? Did they think I was dumb? It was a whole big blowup. I was about five and a half at the time.

I'm not still upset about it, obviously, that would be dumb. It definitely wasn't traumatic. But I never got enjoyment from the Santa myth, and it spoiled a couple Christmases for me. I still wish that my parents had just told me the gifts were from them. I love getting gifts and love my parents, and knowing that my gift was especially picked out for me by someone I love so much was worth a thousand times more for me than getting them from a magical stranger who judged me all year. I'm really glad I found out about Santa so young. I wish I'd found out younger. I wish we could have just skipped the whole dumb thing.

But my sister, oh, my sister. She believed in Santa until she was twelve, and even then clung on desperately for another year hoping she could stay in the magic. She loved Santa Claus, everything about him. She made the cookies almost entirely herself from the time she was seven on. She was devastated when she finally admitted he wasn't real, though she doesn't hold it against anybody either. She'd never change the fact that she believed in him for so long, and I'd never take it away from her.

A baby doesn't understand Santa, so there's no point starting it that young. By the time they're three-ish and able to form real memories and concepts, I think you'd be able to tell who they are. Do they ask a lot of questions? Are they satisfied with simple explanations? Do they point out the inaccuracies of your claims? Or are they more accepting, with a more childishly simple curiousity? Are they gullible? Are they skeptical? Not every child is the same, and one magic spell doesn't fit all.


TL;DR: my point is that Santa is a good fit for some kids and not others. I don't think parents should just assume the right choice is the myth. Wait until your kid is old enough to get it, and for you to get them, and then make a choice based on their personalities. I wish I could have gone without Santa. My sister wishes she could still have him. Children are different sorts of people just like adults.

 

[PureChaos]

really it's emotional blackmail to get kids to behave, i've seen kids get really upset because their parents have told them Santa won't be visiting them because they are misbehaving. maybe that's just bad parenting. plus, kids are told they are safe at home but one a year some random bloke goes into their room at night while their asleep? that's horrifying

 

[Alexander]

Parents:
Seeing your kids happy is fun
upholding the "Santa conspiracy" is fun
=> Santa Claus: fun for the whole family

Companies:
Sales are bleh
Santa Claus temporarily raises sales
=> Santa Claus: good for business

Kids:
Presents!
Presents!
=> Presents! Presents! Presents! Presents! (yes, presents stack exponentially)

I don't think there is more to it then that. I certainly didn't go through the year thinking "Oh no, if I'm naughty Santa won't bring be stuff." In fact I mostly forgot about Santa except around Christmas time. You will never not give your kid Christmas presents because he has been naughty at one point during the year.