Regarding technical skill...

[SckizoBoy]

I may be betraying my 'old-fashioned' musical tastes and prejudices when I say this, but I just find that the technical demands of the composers of (contemporaneous popular) baroque-era music far exceeds that of modern times (and the remaining 'classical' eras, though to a lesser extent, and with some Classical/Romantic composers, its difficult to say which is harder to play). Not so much the difficulty with which it is composed, but how difficult it is to play. Certain pieces, I'm fully aware of require blood, sweat and near breaking of hands to be able to master, but with the exception of certain guitar music, nothing strikes me as being particularly difficult in modern music.

Maybe it is because of a change in the times when now, there is a stress on vocal music, but from what I've heard, even then, the technical demand is not especially great (with the possible exception of diction) and I find that those most skilled are really in musical theatre especially if vocal range and unedited/live singing is anything to go by. Granted, the expectations the consumer has of the modern popular musician is very different, but I feel the point still holds...

Thoughts? I'm totally off? I'm right?

Spoiler: Just leaving this here as it relates to my thoughts... will discuss upon request

 

[SckizoBoy]

What is your point? That music is easier to play on the whole these days? Is that it?

... yes, I guess...

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of current music that I enjoy (most of it isn't even original (OCRemix)), but the skill-set of the modern musician seems to have changed. I'm not saying that it is to its detriment, but merely that musical performance has become distinctly easier.

Musical composition, on the other hand, has become distinctly more difficult.

 

[DoPo]

Well, it stands to reason - people try to make everything easier on themselves. Instead of running, they get horses to do it for them, and later - machines. Lifting a rock is hard work, so they make a contraption to help them with it. Not that different with music - music used to be hard work, as you said, and yet people want to make music, so they made it easier.

So, nothing out of the ordinary much.

 

[Busdriver580]

Technical skill isn't a prerequisite to making good music, although I would say it's a huge advantage and allows for much better music. That said, you really probably aren't looking at the right genres, most progressive or neo-classical stuff is pretty technical. If you aren't opposed to extreme metal most melo-death stuff really loves their keyboards and violins.Still I would share the observation that most modern tech music usually either features guitars or emulates old styles, but that's likely a side effect of the mentality a lot of guitarists have.
You have to look hard.

 

[Vault101]

Thoughts? I'm totally off? I'm right?

Spoiler: Just leaving this here as it relates to my thoughts... will discuss upon request

sooo?

I mean I guess its what you look for/admire in music

I'm not too concerned about the amount of skill it requires, more how it sounds and how it makes me feel, and I guess often these things are very much related to each other

one thing I can't stand is the kind of person who says "x isnt music! theres no skill involved" (often with electronic or rap) though its kind of funny since the people who say that are often the ones most ignorant about music in general

 

[tautologico]

How popular were Bach's compositions at the time, really? He was well-known, but classical music was always the music for courts and nobles. I believe the really popular music, that played in taverns and in popular festivities, is mostly lost in time because no one recorded it. It was only with the advent of recording that the popularity of music became a factor in its preservation. Popular music before recording simply disappeared because most artists didn't write them.

Technically complex classical music continued to be composed after Bach and is composed to this day, and the current versions tend to be much more challenging than what was composed in Bach's time, which is natural given the collective improvements in playing technique and teaching. Pieces that professional pianists struggled to play 20 years ago are executed almost easily by any current Julliard student. So new pieces come up which are even more complex and difficult to play, but they will eventually be mastered. The thing is that only people who study the piano seriously knows about this type of music.

Of course music that is extremely popular and accessible to everyone will be much much simpler technically than music that requires a great deal of music education to appreciate. And for classical music it's worse today than it was in Bach's time, because a musical education must include knowledge and familiarity with all the major styles and schools of classical music that were influential in current classical music, if you wish to get the references and the evolution of music to the current stage.

Also, technical skill at an instrument is easy to find. For any instrument you choose there will be thousands upon thousands of musicians that dedicate their life to it and are really good. The ability to compose something which will resonate with people and move them is much harder to find.

 

[Klumpfot]

I'll just leave this here as a visual and aural example of guitar-based music that requires some considerate technical skill. I do wish it was more rhythmically interesting, though.

Spoiler

As for the thesis of the thread, the intricacies of a composition does matter more to me than the difficulty involved in its performance. It can be rather entertaining to watch, though!

 

[Jingle Fett]

I guess it's the same for almost all industries. I took a humanities course last semester and they talked a lot about those big-time renaissance artists...I mean to think that they did all that art without computers, no magic "undo" button, no photoshop, all by hand. You screw up after hundreds of hours and there's no going back, you HAVE to fix it...

The downside to making stuff easier is that it's easier for people without talent to do decent work. But at the same time, the people who are actually talented can do so much more in less time. I mean imagine if Michelangelo had access to Zbrush or if Leonardo DaVinci had Photoshop? That kind of talent with those tools...

I think it's a similar situation with music

 

[loc978]

I'm gonna go with tautologico's answer. Popular music trends toward simple and catchy... always has. Technology now records all of it, no matter how shallow the composition. Stuff like Bach was popular among connoisseurs of the art, then as now... so it was preserved.

Of course, now it's all more complicated, what with the range of instruments, genres and styles available. I'd hold up metal as an example of technical excellence, but the truth of it is that metal is a huge genre that runs the gamut from simplicity to insane intricacy. The same can be said of... many... genres, depending on how broad your definition is. Even some old hillbilly bluegrass songs tip the scales of intricate composition.

 

[zehydra]

Actually The Rite of Spring might be considered post-romantic or Modern, and that friggin piece is a nightmare to play (yet awesome)

 

[piinyouri]

Technicality if used in a complimenting way can really elevate music obviously.
Technicality for the sake of it, is for me at least, tiring and dull.

Techdeath is the worst offender I've found for this. Not even Dream Theaters longer songs approach the level of soulless wank some techdeath bands put out.

 

[Watcheroftrends]

I'll stick my neck out here:

People are stupid. They don't want to think about music. They want it to be easily accessible and to have a message that agrees with their world view. Hence country music is popular as shit because most people don't care about anything other than partying and stereotypical family values. Dubstep, electronic, club, etc. is popular because it represents a hip, fun atmosphere where people also incidentally party. Alternative appeals to highschool/college age because it's usually some whiney "my life sucks, relationships are complicated" bullshit that most people of that age get obsessed with. Pop music is usually about the same things alternative music is, but it's hidden in more mature (like I read books mature) language. Otherwise it has a very generic message that's impossible not to be appealing in some way.

Obviously there are exceptions to everything. I think it's the majority of the truth though. Classical music tends to lack an immediate idea that's easy to digest. It takes engagement on the listeners part.

In an even more pseudo explanation, modern music generally appeals to what's already there. Classical music tries to get you to think about something you usually don't and even challenges your perceptions.

 

[TwiZtah]

I may be betraying my 'old-fashioned' musical tastes and prejudices when I say this, but I just find that the technical demands of the composers of (contemporaneous popular) baroque-era music far exceeds that of modern times (and the remaining 'classical' eras, though to a lesser extent, and with some Classical/Romantic composers, its difficult to say which is harder to play). Not so much the difficulty with which it is composed, but how difficult it is to play. Certain pieces, I'm fully aware of require blood, sweat and near breaking of hands to be able to master, but with the exception of certain guitar music, nothing strikes me as being particularly difficult in modern music.

Maybe it is because of a change in the times when now, there is a stress on vocal music, but from what I've heard, even then, the technical demand is not especially great (with the possible exception of diction) and I find that those most skilled are really in musical theatre especially if vocal range and unedited/live singing is anything to go by. Granted, the expectations the consumer has of the modern popular musician is very different, but I feel the point still holds...

Thoughts? I'm totally off? I'm right?

Spoiler: Just leaving this here as it relates to my thoughts... will discuss upon request

Classical Music is hard as hell, but so is many contemporary music styles too. Technical Metal, Mathcore, the list goes on. Listen to Animals As Leaders, Tosin Abasi might be one of the best guitar players in the world right now.

 

[Scrustle]

I'll stick my neck out here:

People are stupid. They don't want to think about music. They want it to be easily accessible and to have a message that agrees with their world view. Hence country music is popular as shit because most people don't care about anything other than partying and stereotypical family values. Dubstep, electronic, club, etc. is popular because it represents a hip, fun atmosphere where people also incidentally party. Alternative appeals to highschool/college age because it's usually some whiney "my life sucks, relationships are complicated" bullshit that most people of that age get obsessed with. Pop music is usually about the same things alternative music is, but it's hidden in more mature (like I read books mature) language. Otherwise it has a very generic message that's impossible not to be appealing in some way.

Obviously there are exceptions to everything. I think it's the majority of the truth though. Classical music tends to lack an immediate idea that's easy to digest. It takes engagement on the listeners part.

In an even more pseudo explanation, modern music generally appeals to what's already there. Classical music tries to get you to think about something you usually don't and even challenges your perceptions.

I agree with you mostly, but I disagree with what you say about pop music. It's not about that stuff at all. It's the opposite. It's "let's have a party/let's have sex". It's shallow and obsessed with hedonism.

 

[Vault101]

I'll stick my neck out here:

People are stupid. They don't want to think about music. They want it to be easily accessible and to have a message that agrees with their world view. Hence country music is popular as shit because most people don't care about anything other than partying and stereotypical family values. Dubstep, electronic, club, etc. is popular because it represents a hip, fun atmosphere where people also incidentally party. Alternative appeals to highschool/college age because it's usually some whiney "my life sucks, relationships are complicated" bullshit that most people of that age get obsessed with. Pop music is usually about the same things alternative music is, but it's hidden in more mature (like I read books mature) language. Otherwise it has a very generic message that's impossible not to be appealing in some way.

Obviously there are exceptions to everything. I think it's the majority of the truth though. Classical music tends to lack an immediate idea that's easy to digest. It takes engagement on the listeners part.

In an even more pseudo explanation, modern music generally appeals to what's already there. Classical music tries to get you to think about something you usually don't and even challenges your perceptions.

in some ways I'll agree (particually in regards to pop) but I think its unfair to single out certain genres as "non-thinkers"

I mean you can't really put a value on what somone feels from music

I like music that allows me to use my imagination...that allows me to go somwhere else entirly...if that makes sense

I can't stand alot of songs because they are too literal especially in regards to love/partying....which makes them boring...an electronic track would be ruined for me as soon as "the club" is mentioned or pitbull stats rapping...I like electronic..just not the assosiation it has with partying,

my favorite track


or somthing a little different


eather one the last thing I'm thinking of is partying or whatever...

or even somthing which I imagine would make you want to destroy your own ear drums

Spoiler: hard-style techno

parts of it..particually the main tune/riff I really like..because its agressive, in your face...

even rap which is the most literal lyric-wise..usually with an asinine subject matter...I can like in that way


do I have any Idea what this song is about?...no...does it make me feel like my soul is melting away? you betcha!

as for weather or not I like classical music....I think I may have when I was younger but really I don't really give it a look because I honest to god can;t remember any of the names of the peices...

I do like some soundtrack/orchastral stuff which I know isn't the same thing..but similar