Reggie: Nintendo Doesn't Enjoy Making Mature Games

Feb 4, 2010
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Booze Zombie said:
orangeapples said:
Sony has it right: in house they have God of War and Shadow of the Colossus. They make quality games for both "Teen" and "Mature" audiences.

but they also have the advantage of having Third party developers wanting to make games for them. devs seem to not really enjoy making games for Wii...

I'd love a Q rating. Rated Q for quality.
That's what I mean, though, if Nintendo will not support a market then they will not have that market.
Nintendo would be really good at making Shadow of the Colussus type games. We've arguably gotten something in that vein with Metroid Prime. I'm not talking about the artistry or the setting but the feel-Prime is extremely atmospheric and it's the perfect example of a game that can't be appreciated as readily by a child as it can an adult. If that's what mature meant then by all means I want more. My point is that when most people talk about mature games they're talking about guns and gore, FPSes, various shades of brown-that's not what got me into games and it's not gonna keep me gaming.
 

SimuLord

Whom Gods Annoy
Aug 20, 2008
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You got it in your last sentence. When you appeal to a more casual market especially, the impression that people get is "unless Nintendo put their own name on it and made it themselves, it's gonna be shovelware and we don't want to buy that."

Nintendo's lack of quality control standards for third-party developers hurts those third parties who may otherwise want to develop for the Wii. With the PS3 and 360 this isn't a problem; more hardcore gamers tend to be quite well aware of what's good and what isn't, but Nintendo's customer base is comprised of people who are more likely to use simple brand loyalty as a shorthand for product research.

Mind you, this is not a bad thing for Nintendo; they can vertically integrate the entire process and print money. But for the platform's widespread acceptance this isn't a viable strategy. Then again, put me in the shoes of Fils-Aime or Miyamoto and I would do exactly the same thing. Why? Because it prints money.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Hmmmm, well as the first successful game console after the "Atari Crash", Nintendo got a lot of fire from parents and such. All of the complaints you see about video gaming now existed then and were aimed at Nintendo. Some of it's titles at the time like "Castle Vania" which included gore and occult elements and such got attention akin to "Manhunt" with the console even called Satanic by some. The truth is that there were less gamers around back then (despite the fact that everyone CLAIMS to have begun playing in that era) and these issues didn't quite hit the same chord that they do now. I think Nintendo is basically taking it's child friendly approach as a way of ducking the contreversy that is hitting other consoles. They figure that they will let them take the brunt of things, while they collect cash with titles that are so generally inoffensive that nobody will complain. On the chance that they get criticism due to a third party title, they can always cut that developer loose and refuse to let them develop anymore if push comes to shove.

To some extent I oppose the practice because I feel that Nintendo of all companies should be one of those at the forefront of fighting against censorship, and this kind of criticism directly. However like the industry in general they prefer to let someone else do all the heavy lifting (they figure someone will eventually) and be there to reap the profits without any work.

I also tend to agree that Nintendo does seem to get a lot of shovelware, I also think that it's relatively low power limits how realistic and "mature" things can get, which is why kids titles that rely on bright colors and relatively simplistic graphics can thrive. What's more they have shown that with this kind of "Cutesy" entertainment they can also draw in certain adults and an increasingly older geriatric group.

Nintendo claiming they aren't good at this kind of thing is a lie. Saying they don't want to is accurate but only in so far as I think they don't want the trouble that goes along with such development. They don't want to wind up having their titles looked at by Australian censors or anything of the sort. In fact the most you could accuse Nintendo of is promoting a really left wing political agenda, but even that is debatable (and beyond the contect of this discussion, but people have talked about the Symbolism of Mario, and even the characterizations as far as they went in "Bowsers Inside Story")
 

Booze Zombie

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Dec 8, 2007
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SirPumpkinLongshanks said:
Nintendo would be really good at making Shadow of the Colussus type games. We've arguably gotten something in that vein with Metroid Prime. I'm not talking about the artistry or the setting but the feel-Prime is extremely atmospheric and it's the perfect example of a game that can't be appreciated as readily by a child as it can an adult. If that's what mature meant then by all means I want more. My point is that when most people talk about mature games they're talking about guns and gore, FPSes, various shades of brown-that's not what got me into games and it's not gonna keep me gaming.
To me "mature" means that death happens in the game and I'm not killing robots who don't feel pain, my character's doing something for a reason, he/she has motivations and isn't a super-human.

Basically, that the game has developed characters and you can believe what's happening.
To use a non-game example, when 4Kids edited One Piece and turned the bars into burger and juice stands... I couldn't buy that.
It just didn't make sense.

So, for me, a mature game means that you won't understand it as a kid because you're all happy and naive, where as older gamers would get it because they've lived some life and understand the characters in the game or indeed any medium.
I know that if I spent all day plundering gold, for instance, I wouldn't want to be sober with an American cheese burger and a glass of organge juice in my hands.
 

Valiance

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Jan 14, 2009
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It probably isn't fun to design, lol. Imagine playtesting Contra. Hehe. Think of the difficulty tuning. It must not be enjoyable to make mature games. The blood scatters everywhere...

I love "Mature" games, but I can understand Nintendo has a lot of other things to be making, like the new games in their top franchises.
 

WayOutThere

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Aug 1, 2009
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"Nintendo simply doesn't do mature"

Then how about hardcore? I'd settle with that quite nicely.

"but why has virtually every other mature title gone ignored by Wii owners?"

Nintendo goes out and markets to casual gamers so no one interested in buying hardcore titles buys the Wii then make a handful of hardcore titles (that are pretty mediocre by the looks of it) and expects hardcore gamers to drop $250 on a Wii just so they can experience their half-assed effort, seriously?
 

Kingjackl

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Nov 18, 2009
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I actually think the shortage of "hardcore" titles on the Wii is a blessing in disguise. Sure, it's loaded with shovelware, but it does make the genuine ones like Metroid, Resident Evil 4 or Madworld stand out more. It also means that people who don't have the money to buy new games eveyr other week can scoop up the best games instead of being swamped by choice like with the other consoles.
 

Flying-Emu

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Oct 30, 2008
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zombie711 said:
But nintendo is making a first party game that's Rated mature in japan
Link.
WayOutThere said:
"Nintendo simply doesn't do mature"

Then how about hardcore? I'd settle with that quite nicely.
But what does that mean? Seems to me that the only "hardcore" games are blood-drenched shooters, fighting games, and arcade oldies-but-goodies (I.E. Metal Slug, Contra, etc.).
 

Callate

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Dec 5, 2008
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At a guess, it's probably because big N has carved out its place in the current market with young gamers and gamers outside of the standard 18-34 year old male market. The very young aren't allowed to play Madworld, and a lot of the others fall outside the "Mature" market in other ways- people who just play the pack in titles and the occasional bargain offered at grocery stores, people who play titles like Wii Fit and Dance Dance Revolution for exercise, and so on. Where there's overlap in the Wii market with what most think of as the typical gamer market, you have a dedicated fan base that grew up with many of Nintendo's mainstays... And you also most likely have people with more than one games machine, and given a limited array of options, they'd probably rather play their "Hardcore" games in HD, or using a mouse and keyboard, or just with some controller other than the Wiimote.

It also is probably worth noting that the Wii has always been the low-price option, both regarding system hardware and the kind of television one needs to get the most out of said hardware. And the Wii games that have been pitched at the "hardcore" have generally been some of the most expensive available for the system, at least at launch.
 

Sylocat

Sci-Fi & Shakespeare
Nov 13, 2007
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I guess there IS a reason why Nintendo keeps Reggie around, after all.
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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That's fine by me, I'd just as soon Nintendo NOT make mature rated games. It's been my observation that a lot of so-called "mature" games are trying to hard to come across as "mature" (which also comes across as very immature to me) and a lot of potential is lost in the effort. I'd just as soon Nintendo stay focused on what they're good at.

Edit:
Pimppeter2 said:
This, this is why I have tremendous respect for Nintendo.
Also this.
Also with the exception of Atari, Nintendo has been doing this longer than anyone else in the industry, so bear that in mind before criticizing.
 

WayOutThere

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WayOutThere said:
"Nintendo simply doesn't do mature"

Then how about hardcore? I'd settle with that quite nicely.
But what does that mean? Seems to me that the only "hardcore" games are blood-drenched shooters, fighting games, and arcade oldies-but-goodies (I.E. Metal Slug, Contra, etc.).[/quote]

It's possible to have hardcore games that aren't mature. Think of Mario, Zelda, Kirby etc.
 

WayOutThere

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Aug 1, 2009
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Flying-Emu said:
WayOutThere said:
"Nintendo simply doesn't do mature"

Then how about hardcore? I'd settle with that quite nicely.
But what does that mean? Seems to me that the only "hardcore" games are blood-drenched shooters, fighting games, and arcade oldies-but-goodies (I.E. Metal Slug, Contra, etc.).
It's possible to have hardcore games that aren't mature. Think of Mario, Zelda, Kirby etc.
 

Souplex

Souplex Killsplosion Awesomegasm
Jul 29, 2008
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Nintendo made that trippy horror game with the sanity meter didn't they?
 

Tom Goldman

Crying on the inside.
Aug 17, 2009
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Nintendo's current customer base is likely to buy shovelware and have it be the first instance of that shovelware they've ever seen. And Nintendo's Virtual Console probably has everything the older nostalgia gamers want.

And all the really cool innovative stuff is on the DS, which is usually also bought in quantity by many Wii owners. So ports and such are common. Trauma Center did well, maybe a Phoenix Wright game would too.

So shooters that focus on competition with strangers online...no. Heavy Rain-style mature games...hay, did The Bouncer do all that good? Who really remembers Hotel Dusk? Are we clamoring for Mass Effect Wii, with full Wiimote sensitivity in the optional sex scenes?

I mean, I downloaded Knights of the Old Republic off of Steam, then tried to play it after having run through around 20 hours of mixed Half-Life 2 and FFXII the days before. Ker-snoozled at my first big non-story 'open area with options.' Didn't play since. Does this mean I'm ruined for Bioware titles forever?

Am I honestly supposed to demand that all my half-formed science fiction and detective stories be retold on game screen, with all 600 pages of establishing dialogue, written sometimes by good writers, other times by fairly qualified monkeys?

Because I was really very, very, very, VERY satisfied with just FFXII doing a stealth retelling of Star Wars that actually made some goddamn sense. And doing it all near-optionally, in tidbit form, through the bestiary logs. Has Bioware really and truly been able to create worlds and characters as effectively contained as Spira, or Ivalice, or even possibly Azeroth? (Don't know about that last one, haven't played a Warcraft since III. Given Blizzards crazy retconning tendencies, probably not.)