Relax, It's a Fucking Game

[Mastercylinder]

I'm not under the impression that every game needs to be insightful or meaningful, but I do like to point it out if I feel it is in some way.

Games are still entertainment, just like books or movies, I don't really think that's all that they should be considered as.

I just complain when people argue that they're a waste of effort and time etc. The interactive portion of it is just so different and can be used artistically in so many ways, I feel it kinda deserves some defense sometimes.

I'm not for everything being art nor everything being just entertainment either.

 

[galdon2004]

I never understood why games have to be classified as art. Some are, but that doesn't mean every single game should be art.

It's the same as how not every 4 year old's crayola drawing is art, but drawing as a medium is an art. We want the MEDIUM of game design to be recognized as an artistic medium, not every single game to be automatic art.

 

[subfield]

Most things on this rock we temporarily live on are just toys. To not acknowledge that is to give up half the light of the world.

You call the fans of Extra Credits "sheep". As someone who can't bear to watch the show and not convulsively retch my last meal out, I object to this statement in the strongest possible terms.

 

[NickFury90]

I'm also not part of the borderline OBSESSION with seeing my favorite pastime clarified as "art". I don't feel the need to justify myself to anyone, I don't need video games to improve intellectively and tastefully so I can say, "Hey friends and family, look at this medium of entertainment! Its so meaningful and deep, so you can respect me now!" If people disrespect me for playing video games, well quite frankly, fuck those people. They aren't my friends and I don't want to associate with people that judge others over their harmless pastimes.

If you want games to have richer, deeper stories for the sake of improving gaming, that's fine. But I'm so sick of this constant crying for respect from these peers, trying to validate your favorite medium.

 

[WorldFree55]

Video Games to me are what Movies, TV, Music, etc. Entertainment. But all of them can show a powerful and inspiring message in a form of creativity, intellectual art to it's own right.

Every now and then, we will get a game that has just mindless killing zombies, aliens, nazis, etc. And sometimes, we will get a game that has a powerful or insightful message that is meaningful to it. That very same thing applies to both movies and music.

Music at times just has a bunch of crap rap songs that the only message it shows is having sex with girls and being rich makes you the best man ever and that is all. Some music however, like for example Dream On (one of my favorites) by Aerosmith has a powerful message and meaning to it while the song itself is catchy .

Some Movies like Piranha 3D have absolutely nothing meaningful or bring anything to the table with just a bunch of fish killing people while movies like Shawshank Redemption (my personal favorite) have powerful messages and inspirational stories that make people feel deep inside with themselves.

Point is, i love games, and imo, they are more then just entertainment at times like movies, TV, and music. In fact, i have learned a lot from good video games that have made me a better person and I am not afraid to say that, nor should i feel ashamed by it. Heck, I learned more about the Italian Renaissance from games then my entire 10th grade history class ever did because of some Video Games i have played in the past. I have a better sense of logic and have become a really deep, sensitive, caring and courageous person then i thought i could ever be then what the schools could have (or SHOULD HAVE) taught me.

Games are not for everyone, just like sports are not. Some people also believe that sports like Basketball or Football or Baseball are just games. But to me, there more then that. They have a history behind it. They have a sense of life and struggle behind it and I'm definitly not the only one who thinks this as well. We also see these as things that entertain us.

So i disagree with you mostly. But i won't judge you unless you attack other people for portraying games otherwise. Just like I wouldn't judge people if they weren't into sports either. But to me, some games (NOT ALL), mean much more to me and some people.

That's probably the longest post i ever did here on this site XD.

 

[Hamish Durie]

while i do firmly belive that the medium of games should be moved forward( ihave felt this way before extra credits)i don't belive that they should be considered anything but games thats what they started as thats what they will eventually but hopefully not die as.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

I'm going t ogive you the same advice Doc Brown gave me once: You have to think fourth dimensionally!

In all honesty, I see your opinion as backwards and relating tons toward a past view people had of your gaming.

Fun fact: EXTRA CCREDITZ NEVER SAID GAMING HAS TO HAVE DEEP MEANING

They promote Demons' Souls and Vanquish, both games are ridiculous fun fests. They want games to be a smorgas-board of entertainment. Those who want an intelligent experience should be able to come to gaming, those who want an escape should be able to go to gaming, those who want a ridiculous and hilarious time should be able to go to gaming. We have an interactive medium where developers can give people a chance to be a part of brand new universes, take on new lives, meet new people, and experience a narrative beyond that of a normal dreary day.

Just like the team at Extra Creditz, I want gaming to cover vasts amount of genres and entertainments. I want it to approachable and loved by every one on the planet.

Games matter. They've influenced all of us in many ways. That 'toy' you claim to just simply enjoy has influenced many things about you. It influences how you spend your days and your money. It's influenced a certain topic you excel in discussing. It's influenced who is a celebrity in your world (some people have Hugh Jackman and Steven Spielberg, we have Mario and Miyamoto). It's influenced your very culture has a human being. It has for millions of people.

Saying video games are toys is ignorant. Video games are video games and always will be.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

Double post, sorry. I am posting this for a friend. I told him about the topic and showed him the first post and he responded with this. I thought it was beautiful.

Spoiler

I agree and disagree with him. Games can most certainly go beyond a level of simple entertainment media, and it's not a bad thing if they do, though not necessarily good either. However, just because they can doesn't mean they need to. A game should be, first and foremost, an interactive form of entertainment. Of course with the different genres and whatnot it's difficult to pin down exactly what is important for games to maintain their own identity, and to apply generalized statements, but I think everyone can agree that games must be, in some way, interactive. To that end it's always a good thing to involve the player in that element of interactivity to give control. But it's not necessarily bad to make the interaction more separate from the narrative or other elements, either. In the end, I guess what I'm saying is, it's a big medium, and there's room for games of all types, all ethos and principles. And so I think they should be judged on an individual basis, not just thinking of all games as a whole. I love both games with engaging narratives and creative stories and games with mindless button-mashing action. So, I don't think video games should be viewed as "movies" or "toys". They should be viewed as what they are: video games. And all the possibilities that encompasses.

 

[Ace of Spades]

I have no problem with you viewing games primarily as a method of entertainment, but you are thinking entirely as an individual and not about the whole industry. You're a consumer, and it's your prerogative to look out for your own interests, but if games are going to develop as an art form, you need to recognize that we, players and developers alike, are a collective, and if the majority still view games as just toys to pass time, we aren't going to make any progress.

Not all gamers view so called "fun" games as simple toys, there are gamers out there who are very competative and serious in how they appoach their gaming and some games are as deep and complex as chess.

Ppl who just make blacket statements on either gamer or art side are just as bad as each other imo and part of the problem as to why more and more modern AAA games really are just shallow toys with no other value other then playing in a half assed way for a few hours as just a means to pass the time before they move onto their next half assed game.

Both art and games can co-exist together, hell sometime in the future we might even get a perfect game that successfully joins the two together! (mindblown) But that'll never happen while gamers continue to be snobs and wont embrace both sides equally.

Judging from the tone of your first statement, I'm guessing that you think your argument is superior to the arguments in favor of either art or fun focused games just because it's the moderate one. The idea that art and fun games shouldn't be diametrically opposed is admirable, but the conflict between the two isn't going to simply disappear because you say it should. Ideally, there should be no difference between games as art and games as entertainment, but as of now, there is, which is fine; the two types can coexist until they can integrate. However, people like the OP, who argue that games [strong]shouldn't[/strong] develop artistically are wrong, and that's not an opinion.

 

[PeePantz]

However, people like the OP, who argue that games [strong]shouldn't[/strong] develop artistically are wrong, and that's not an opinion.

Hi, OP here. I never said games [strong]shouldn't[/strong] develop artistically; hell I only said art once in my OP. At the very end. As a different name for video games.

This thread has seem to be derailed by the "Rabble, rabble. Games are art". When I stated the "EC sheep", which too many have seen as everyone who watches EC are sheep (well then, "baaahhh" I say; you can check out the million EC badges I received if you'd like), I was talking about this specifically. Without much reading or understanding, people have been on the art v. not-art topic. Very much derailment.

I am under the belief that video games aren't art because they are games. Games that are made up with art, but not art themselves. Games will always develop artistically due to that being what they are composed of. With greater innovation and creativity in the field, of course they will expand artistically and I'd be the "consumer fascist" I mentioned if I felt the need to cease the "artistic innovation" of games.

My original post was more of a questioning of the mindless fanatics who put down games due to being childish and low brow. Games that don't offer any intellectual merit. The shocking thing is that these aren't Senators, Prime Ministers, or reporters. These are fellow gamers. These gamers are willing to condemn their own and will bash anything they don't view as "pushing the medium" forward.

For me, as everything is opinion, I honestly believe that we should not sway one way or the other. The primary goal for these developers and publishers is money. It would be a pretty poor business model if you didn't put time or resources into innovation and pushing boundaries of what we know of gaming. This is naturally going to happen whether we clamor for it or not.

I'm about to use one of my biggest pet peeves and compare gaming to movie watching (only because people have done this throughout this thread. side note: Video Games Are Completely Different From Movies!). The people I'm alluding to are similar to those who protest porn in the film industry. They feel they need to erase the smut and will use many things as a crutch to help their cause, such as art. However, porn sells and people love it. Sure, I love great movies but I can appreciate what porn has done for the film industry and our culture overall.

So these little artistic toys I love don't need to be regulated or be forced to be more intelligent or "artsy" for those who want to use that term (also, I want to know what will make these fuckers more artistic. What exactly are people wanting when they want more art? Is art just a pretentious word being used to say less trashy or more intelligent?). They can be marketed as games and toys, and that's fine. They can be obscene and offensive, that's fine too. If a publisher want to market it as an artistic journey, go right ahead.