Religion in games. What games are worth playing?
- Thread starter DoomGnomes
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Ooh, I've been thinking about this recently. If you've ever played Final Fantasy, or a number of Japanese games, you'll notice a recurring theme of evil demonic bosses - which all look like Judeo-Christian angels. Yeah. Or, just as frequently, you fight generic demons and hellspawn, who turn out to be pawns of the more angelic-looking creatures.DoomGnomes said:
I have a theory on this. There are a few idiosyncrasies common in Japanese media that are actually the result of Western influence after WWII. That's a discussion for another topic though. If you look at pre-WWII spirituality in Japan, it's a hybrid between traditional ideas of Shintoism and a constant historical trickle of Buddhism.
One of the fundamental differences you commonly see between Eastern and Western religion is that Eastern religions are often about understand the universe as a natural, organic system, and accepting your place within it. It teaches you that you are as much a part of nature as everything else, and that you should act accordingly. Western religion on the other hand tells you that you are something outside of nature, and that you should fight your natural instincts to achieve a higher state known as "grace".
Now, let's look at a common theme of JRPG's. What are the games usually about? A Western industrialist culture that has abandoned morality in exchange for power. Scientists and leaders who become unnatural abominations by discarding the things that make them human. Organized religion that convinces people to follow a lie. I don't think these are intentional metaphors - I think it's an expression of some subconsciously understood issues within the culture. What's said about religion within these games is usually fairly trite and shallow, but if you pull the thread back a bit and see where it's coming from, things begin to get really interesting.
Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel had an entire faction devoted to worshipping technology. They had some somewhat hilarious ideas of gods and demons
I agree that the most current, most interesting title would have to be Bioshock Infinite. Depending on who you are and what society you find yourself embedded in, there is a lot to get out of... but, alas, most of the actual substance seems to be a rather fleeting thing to me.
There's always the priest/cleric/fighting monk/healer archetype in the vast, grassy plains of RPG wonderland, pretty much right from the get-go.
My current favourite, even though done by Japanese who - most of the time - have a different way of approaching, tackling and handling issues great and small, would be Dark Souls. You meet Petrus of Thorolund very early in the game, somewhat willing to teach you miracles of a defensive and healing nature, before the story takes a wrong turn for those attentive enough to catch it. Then there's Solaire of Astora, interactions with whom are as inspiring as they are confusing, but he can be there for you when you need him and figure out how to summon him to your aid. He's been my shining beacon in a world that offers everything - plowing through poisonous, foul-smelling swamps, enjoying a seemingly neverending sunset, which of course, you can turn into endless night, walking on ashes... it's all there in Dark Souls.
But the lore is tedious to collect and probably not in sync with the timely manner in which most papers have to be handed in. Just reading up on it on one of the two major Dark Souls wikis may work, but I doubt it works properly if one does not experience the despair, confusion and general feeling of abandon first hand. Yeah, Dark Souls to me is the best experience no matter who you are or what you are looking for. It's not an easy ride, though. I also think that playing Dark Souls can be seen either as a punishment equivalent of that of Sysiphus, or it can be seen as an interactive form of 'practice makes perfect', turned into a mantra one can live by for as long as body, mind, power source and hardware allow. Becoming better, approaching 'perfect' in Dark Souls beats a lot of ritualized solitary pondering, methinks. Praise the Sun!
Also a favourite of mine is The Order of the Silent Hill games... it's a rather bleak thing in a very dark world, though. Their Sun God deity must be hiding inside some sort of black hole.
Depending on the scope and scale - and effort you're willing to put in - I still would recommend looking at, say, Warcraft III, although it tends to become a political minefield in an open discussion setting. Even though it's a decade-old title, you can still get away with picking it up, playing it, accessing the videos on the disc outside of game play, and making your own thoughts on everything you see. After all, Warcraft III's lore and visual impact was strong enough to inspire people for World of Warcraft, which is no small feat.
Mark Twain said that we humans are religious animals. I think he's right. What he only so much as implied was that we tend to make shit up as we go along.
There's always the priest/cleric/fighting monk/healer archetype in the vast, grassy plains of RPG wonderland, pretty much right from the get-go.
My current favourite, even though done by Japanese who - most of the time - have a different way of approaching, tackling and handling issues great and small, would be Dark Souls. You meet Petrus of Thorolund very early in the game, somewhat willing to teach you miracles of a defensive and healing nature, before the story takes a wrong turn for those attentive enough to catch it. Then there's Solaire of Astora, interactions with whom are as inspiring as they are confusing, but he can be there for you when you need him and figure out how to summon him to your aid. He's been my shining beacon in a world that offers everything - plowing through poisonous, foul-smelling swamps, enjoying a seemingly neverending sunset, which of course, you can turn into endless night, walking on ashes... it's all there in Dark Souls.
But the lore is tedious to collect and probably not in sync with the timely manner in which most papers have to be handed in. Just reading up on it on one of the two major Dark Souls wikis may work, but I doubt it works properly if one does not experience the despair, confusion and general feeling of abandon first hand. Yeah, Dark Souls to me is the best experience no matter who you are or what you are looking for. It's not an easy ride, though. I also think that playing Dark Souls can be seen either as a punishment equivalent of that of Sysiphus, or it can be seen as an interactive form of 'practice makes perfect', turned into a mantra one can live by for as long as body, mind, power source and hardware allow. Becoming better, approaching 'perfect' in Dark Souls beats a lot of ritualized solitary pondering, methinks. Praise the Sun!
Also a favourite of mine is The Order of the Silent Hill games... it's a rather bleak thing in a very dark world, though. Their Sun God deity must be hiding inside some sort of black hole.
Depending on the scope and scale - and effort you're willing to put in - I still would recommend looking at, say, Warcraft III, although it tends to become a political minefield in an open discussion setting. Even though it's a decade-old title, you can still get away with picking it up, playing it, accessing the videos on the disc outside of game play, and making your own thoughts on everything you see. After all, Warcraft III's lore and visual impact was strong enough to inspire people for World of Warcraft, which is no small feat.
Mark Twain said that we humans are religious animals. I think he's right. What he only so much as implied was that we tend to make shit up as we go along.
The Warhammer games if you can stand them. For the Emperor!
Then there's Halo, I'd go with the first one where the religious subtext doesn't hit you over the head hard enough to cause a concussion.
Also in Fallout 3 there's a cult in the game that worships an atom bomb. Kinda weird, never really got it myself, but might be interesting. Must stop talking like Mordin.
I'm sure I'm just saying the obvious ones, I don't play enough video games to recommend more.
Then there's Halo, I'd go with the first one where the religious subtext doesn't hit you over the head hard enough to cause a concussion.
Also in Fallout 3 there's a cult in the game that worships an atom bomb. Kinda weird, never really got it myself, but might be interesting. Must stop talking like Mordin.
I'm sure I'm just saying the obvious ones, I don't play enough video games to recommend more.
I don't think there is a single game out there right now that has successfully tackled religion. There are games with religion in them, sure, but none that go in depth or tackle matters of faith: gaining faith, spiritual enlightenment or a loss of faith and existential crisis. If you want to play a game that has religion in it then there are plenty of games from Bioshock: Infinite to Dragon Age but there aren't any games out there that explore belief and faith at all.
Dishonored? If you're looking for fictional religions that aren't explicitly based on the major religions (Judaism, Christianity, etc).
From the Dishonored wiki:
"The Abbey of the Everyman, or the Abbey, is a religious order in the world of Dishonored, preached by Overseers and headed by the High Overseer. The Abbey's ideology centers on the belief that "the universe is unknowably vast and swarming with all manner of dangerous spirits and forces, most of which are hostile to man's existence." The primary goal of the Abbey is to stand against the Outsider (the deity that grants powers to the protagonist), but it is also tasked with civil matters, such as officiating marriages and regulating the Isles' calendar and the Fugue Feast."
The Overseers hunt down people caught worshiping the Outsider. They have a set of doctrines called the Seven Strictures, and anyone suspected or caught violating them is arrested and likely tortured to confess. They destroy objects of worship such as the bone charms that are dedicated to the Outsider. Their female counterpart is the Oracular Order, in charge of interpreting prophecies. The Oracles are only mentioned in some books in the game, and the player never encounters them.
On the flip side you have worshipers of the Outsider, the deity that is the source of all magic in the world of Dishonored. He resides in the Void, which is something like a limbo. His worshipers sacrifice blood, tears, semen to the god who comes from the Void. These people are portrayed as insane due to the influence of the Void, and very often they're portrayed as malicious. The magic they gain from the Outsider lets them possess other living things and summon rat swarms to devour people.
I can go on and on about this topic, but I don't know what you're looking for specifically. The most interesting thing about the portrayal of religion in this game is really the parallels between the role of the Overseers in hunting down heretics and the role of the Catholic Church in hunting down witches in the Middle Ages. There's a lot of political overtones as well, so the issue of separation of state and church also comes into play. Not so much philosophical discussion if that's what you're looking for.
The wiki has more info: http://dishonored.wikia.com/wiki/Abbey_of_the_Everyman
Look up Oracular Order, Outsider, The Void, Seven Strictures. If you do play the game, a lot of the information comes from books and notes lying around so I recommend searching every nook and cranny. Chapter 2 has you infiltrating the headquarters of the Overseer so you get to see the culture of the Overseers.
From the Dishonored wiki:
"The Abbey of the Everyman, or the Abbey, is a religious order in the world of Dishonored, preached by Overseers and headed by the High Overseer. The Abbey's ideology centers on the belief that "the universe is unknowably vast and swarming with all manner of dangerous spirits and forces, most of which are hostile to man's existence." The primary goal of the Abbey is to stand against the Outsider (the deity that grants powers to the protagonist), but it is also tasked with civil matters, such as officiating marriages and regulating the Isles' calendar and the Fugue Feast."
The Overseers hunt down people caught worshiping the Outsider. They have a set of doctrines called the Seven Strictures, and anyone suspected or caught violating them is arrested and likely tortured to confess. They destroy objects of worship such as the bone charms that are dedicated to the Outsider. Their female counterpart is the Oracular Order, in charge of interpreting prophecies. The Oracles are only mentioned in some books in the game, and the player never encounters them.
On the flip side you have worshipers of the Outsider, the deity that is the source of all magic in the world of Dishonored. He resides in the Void, which is something like a limbo. His worshipers sacrifice blood, tears, semen to the god who comes from the Void. These people are portrayed as insane due to the influence of the Void, and very often they're portrayed as malicious. The magic they gain from the Outsider lets them possess other living things and summon rat swarms to devour people.
I can go on and on about this topic, but I don't know what you're looking for specifically. The most interesting thing about the portrayal of religion in this game is really the parallels between the role of the Overseers in hunting down heretics and the role of the Catholic Church in hunting down witches in the Middle Ages. There's a lot of political overtones as well, so the issue of separation of state and church also comes into play. Not so much philosophical discussion if that's what you're looking for.
The wiki has more info: http://dishonored.wikia.com/wiki/Abbey_of_the_Everyman
Look up Oracular Order, Outsider, The Void, Seven Strictures. If you do play the game, a lot of the information comes from books and notes lying around so I recommend searching every nook and cranny. Chapter 2 has you infiltrating the headquarters of the Overseer so you get to see the culture of the Overseers.
I have one game for you. It's a classic that revolves entirely around a religious institution.
FINAL FANTASY TACTICS
Great game and a great story. Hell, the fist scene in the game takes place in a church.
FINAL FANTASY TACTICS
Great game and a great story. Hell, the fist scene in the game takes place in a church.
Srsly though, Honest Hearts is far-and-away the best in that regard. Definitely on the short side, though.Joseph Harrison said:
Dragon Age has some interesting tidbits in that regard on many fronts. You have the Chantry and Templars which provide the central human religion and control of their mages (The quest for the urn of Sacred Ashes also shows a rather interesting take on people turning to powerful entities as heretical embodiments of their faith), the Dwarves have a form of Ancestor Worship and their Paragons, the Qunari have their Qun with its attempt to bring order to the universe, and the Dalish elves trying desperately to reclaim their cultural heritage and identity, including their culture's religion. And then of course there's the Tevinter Imperium and their "Old Gods" which tie in intimately with the story of the game and provide the origin of the Darkspawn...
Ok so far I have compiled this list;
Assasin's Creed
Asuras Wrath
Baldur's Gate
Bioshock Infinite
Black and White
Binding of Isaac
Civilization
Crusader Kings
Dark Souls
Darksiders
Dishonored
Dragon Age
Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
Elder Scrolls
El Shaddai
Fallout 3, New Vegas & Tatics
Final Fantasy Tatics & 10
God of War
Halo
Heroes of Might and Magic 5
Inquisitor
KOTOR
Silent Hill
Soul Reaver, 2 & Legacy of Kain
Total War
Tropico
Populous
Planescape Torment
Ultima 4
Warcraft
Warhammer
Xenogears
Anyone fancy adding anything else to it?
Assasin's Creed
Asuras Wrath
Baldur's Gate
Bioshock Infinite
Black and White
Binding of Isaac
Civilization
Crusader Kings
Dark Souls
Darksiders
Dishonored
Dragon Age
Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
Elder Scrolls
El Shaddai
Fallout 3, New Vegas & Tatics
Final Fantasy Tatics & 10
God of War
Halo
Heroes of Might and Magic 5
Inquisitor
KOTOR
Silent Hill
Soul Reaver, 2 & Legacy of Kain
Total War
Tropico
Populous
Planescape Torment
Ultima 4
Warcraft
Warhammer
Xenogears
Anyone fancy adding anything else to it?
This. A lesson on how fanatacism, rigidity and maintaining the status quo by fear through religion can more or less stagnate a society. By giving the people only one option (Yevon) and oppressing the "heretics" (Al Bhed), the world as a whole suffers (Sin every 10 years) and those who would stand up to the status quo are "required" to become martyrs (Summoners).jrobson68 said:
Its a sad state of affairs. Theocracy is not a good thing.
Fallout New Vegas's Honest Hearts DLC had interesting portrayals of religion. The Mormons for one were like the only Christians left and when the guy explains what its about, most of Courier's responses involve him never having heard of it and thinking its crazy. Despite seeming crazy their religion is one of the reasons they have strong and just community. And the natives have an interesting example, they worship a nature spirit and you find out that their god was actually a man who was surviving in the wilderness after the end of world. All he wanted was to die but he couldn't bring himself to do it and in the end he taught a group children how to survive and he ended up immortal as their decedent's god
Bioshock Infinite is the obvious answer.
Also, I found that Medieval 2: Total War did a good job of depicting religious influence. You need to spawn priests and curry favor with the Pope, not to get favor from god, but because of the very practical reason that the pope wielded very real political power in that age and getting excommunicated was a good way to get your populace angry at you. A happy, religious populace is a compliant one.
Also, I found that Medieval 2: Total War did a good job of depicting religious influence. You need to spawn priests and curry favor with the Pope, not to get favor from god, but because of the very practical reason that the pope wielded very real political power in that age and getting excommunicated was a good way to get your populace angry at you. A happy, religious populace is a compliant one.