Religious Freedom

[Thaluikhain]

It takes more than wearing a swastika to become a Nazi. Would you wear a swastika if you were forced to go to a place where it was expected of visitors? Probably not. Obviously it's different, and I'm not saying Jews are Nazis or anything but it's that idea. I'm opposed to joining in.

The swastika has other meanings to you. I'm assuming the wearing of a skullcap doesn't have any other particular connotations.

Having said that, you should be able to opt out of the whole thing. Can't you claim to be a rabid religious fanatic and don't want to be corrupted by impure faiths or something?

 

[OutforEC]

Do you still get to go to the museum even if you don't get to enter the synagogue? Because not getting to experience one because of your disagreement about entering other would kinda suck.

Also, strange that an English teacher would be the one doing the trip instead of a History/Theology teacher.

 

[Merkavar]

and I think they should respect my beliefs.

they will respect your beliefs. you can stand out side.

But really why should you go? you seem to be so closed minded that you cant handle wearing a relgious cap for a day. why not save you, your parents or the school some money and not go. if its free stop wasting peoples time. you sound like you would not gain anything from going other than hatred over being force to wear a hat.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

Um...it takes more to become a Jew than wearing a skullcap.

Not least because they're right ahead of Wiccans and right behind Zoroastrians on the "notoriously non-proselytizing" scale.

It takes more than wearing a swastika to become a Nazi. Would you wear a swastika if you were forced to go to a place where it was expected of visitors? Probably not. Obviously it's different, and I'm not saying Jews are Nazis or anything but it's that idea. I'm opposed to joining in.

Wow. Way to be extremely offensive. I left Judaism years and years ago and you've managed to offend the crap out of me with that. They're not the same at all and you should apologize for suggesting they are.

Of course I apologize. And as I've already stated, Jews and Nazis are completely different. I was just showing how that if something offends you, or if you disagree with something, it shouldn't be forced upon you. So, although my comments was probably uncalled for, the fact that it offended you proved my point.
So yeah, sorry.

 

[WolfEdge]

Do you still get to go to the museum even if you don't get to enter the synagogue? Because not getting to experience one because of your disagreement about entering other would kinda suck.

Also, strange that an English teacher would be the one doing the trip instead of a History/Theology teacher.

They're probably studying Anne Frank or some other literary work with it's roots in Judaism.

 

[kickyourass]

Most of the time I'd say go ahead and not participate when it's a religion not your own and you don't want to take part. But in a situation like this where participating amounts to something as simple as just wearing a certain kind of hat while inside a specific building, I'm kinda inclined to say "Just go with it," it's not like they're asking you to shave your heads or something.

 

[OutforEC]

Do you still get to go to the museum even if you don't get to enter the synagogue? Because not getting to experience one because of your disagreement about entering other would kinda suck.

Also, strange that an English teacher would be the one doing the trip instead of a History/Theology teacher.

They're probably studying Anne Frank or some other literary work with it's roots in Judaism.

Ah, good call! Did the same thing in my Jr. High English class, but didn't get a groovy field trip out of it

 

[xdom125x]

l

Some people have opined that it's 'just a hat', but obviously the synagogue doesn't believe so,

The kippah is not a religious item. However it is Jewish tradition to keep your head to keep your head covered in a synagogue.

Isn't the skullcap worn to show respect for a god? If he doesn't believe in a deity, why would he do things out of respect for it.
Aren't the Jewish religion and tradition so mixed together that to say it is only tradition would be splitting hairs?

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

Do you still get to go to the museum even if you don't get to enter the synagogue? Because not getting to experience one because of your disagreement about entering other would kinda suck.

Also, strange that an English teacher would be the one doing the trip instead of a History/Theology teacher.

I think so, yeah. And it's because we are studying "Maus" by Art Spiegelman.

and I think they should respect my beliefs.

they will respect your beliefs. you can stand out side.

But really why should you go? you seem to be so closed minded that you cant handle wearing a relgious cap for a day. why not save you, your parents or the school some money and not go. if its free stop wasting peoples time. you sound like you would not gain anything from going other than hatred over being force to wear a hat.

I'm not allowed to NOT go. I want to attend to learn more about a culture I do not understand. At least i'm going. Many people chose to not go because they did not want to learn about other cultures.

 

[jonyboy13]

Do you still get to go to the museum even if you don't get to enter the synagogue? Because not getting to experience one because of your disagreement about entering other would kinda suck.

Also, strange that an English teacher would be the one doing the trip instead of a History/Theology teacher.

I think so, yeah. And it's because we are studying "Maus" by Art Spiegelman.

and I think they should respect my beliefs.

they will respect your beliefs. you can stand out side.

But really why should you go? you seem to be so closed minded that you cant handle wearing a relgious cap for a day. why not save you, your parents or the school some money and not go. if its free stop wasting peoples time. you sound like you would not gain anything from going other than hatred over being force to wear a hat.

I'm not allowed to NOT go. I want to attend to learn more about a culture I do not understand. At least i'm going. Many people chose to not go because they did not want to learn about other cultures.

How can you learn about them if you don't even remotely respect their religion?
It's just a freakin' yarmulke.

 

[xdom125x]

Some people have opined that it's 'just a hat', but obviously the synagogue doesn't believe so,

The kippah is not a religious item. However it is Jewish tradition to keep your head to keep your head covered in a synagogue.

Isn't the skullcap( edit: kippah, or whatever else you want to call it) worn to show respect for a god? If he doesn't believe in a deity, why would he do things out of respect for it.
Aren't the Jewish religion and tradition so mixed together that to say it is only tradition would be splitting hairs?

 

[Ledan]

I agree with you, but you could see it more as a cultural thing than a religious one. Personally I abstain from all religious ceremonies because I find them offensive to my beliefs.
Politely say that you would rather not join in, and if they try to force you just say that it is against what you believe in, even if you don't believe in anything.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Um...it takes more to become a Jew than wearing a skullcap.

Not least because they're right ahead of Wiccans and right behind Zoroastrians on the "notoriously non-proselytizing" scale.

It takes more than wearing a swastika to become a Nazi. Would you wear a swastika if you were forced to go to a place where it was expected of visitors?

Possibly, depending on the reason. If it's a historical re-enactment thing, then most likely yes. If it's a neo-Nazi convention of some kind, I wouldn't be anywhere near it in the first place.

I'm pretty sure going into a place with just the equivalent of an incredibly lenient dress code leans more towards the former.

And trust me, I'm choking back stuff I want to say about your bizarre choice of analogy.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I do not affiliate, nor will I ever affiliate, myself with ANY religious activity or group whatsoever. That being said, your little dillema reminded me of this...

This has foul language, so if you're offended by stuff like that, DON'T CLICK IT!

Quite entertaining. Thanks for the link.

 

[TheAbominableDan]

l

Some people have opined that it's 'just a hat', but obviously the synagogue doesn't believe so,

The kippah is not a religious item. However it is Jewish tradition to keep your head to keep your head covered in a synagogue.

Isn't the skullcap worn to show respect for a god? If he doesn't believe in a deity, why would he do things out of respect for it.
Aren't the Jewish religion and tradition so mixed together that to say it is only tradition would be splitting hairs?

It's an incredibly youthful mindset to believe that acknowledging someone else's belief in god is bad for you if you're an atheist. You know what I do? I wish my Christian friends a merry Christmas. I don't acknowledge the existence of Jesus or the importance of the holiday. But if they do I really do hope they have a good holiday. It doesn't hurt me to do so, nor does it weaken my stance of non-affiliation with any religion.

 

[nightcoil]

Um...it takes more to become a Jew than wearing a skullcap.

Not least because they're right ahead of Wiccans and right behind Zoroastrians on the "notoriously non-proselytizing" scale.

It takes more than wearing a swastika to become a Nazi. Would you wear a swastika if you were forced to go to a place where it was expected of visitors? Probably not. Obviously it's different, and I'm not saying Jews are Nazis or anything but it's that idea. I'm opposed to joining in.

Wow. Way to be extremely offensive. I left Judaism years and years ago and you've managed to offend the crap out of me with that. They're not the same at all and you should apologize for suggesting they are.

he wasn't suggesting they're the same

 

[WolfThomas]

If it was a matter of cultural deceny, I'd say the OP should do it out of respect even if you disagree with it, like having covered arms in a Catholic church or a headscarf for women in a mosque. But a Kippah or Yarmulke is an acknowledgement/affirmation of God for Jewish people. "Cover your head in order that the fear of heaven may be upon you" - Talmud

So I don't think the OP should be made to wear it.

On the otherhand, I don't really believe in making a fuss like this is the right thing to do, I'd probably wear the Kippah or bring my own hat from home.

 

[Ledan]

Um...it takes more to become a Jew than wearing a skullcap.

Not least because they're right ahead of Wiccans and right behind Zoroastrians on the "notoriously non-proselytizing" scale.

It takes more than wearing a swastika to become a Nazi. Would you wear a swastika if you were forced to go to a place where it was expected of visitors? Probably not. Obviously it's different, and I'm not saying Jews are Nazis or anything but it's that idea. I'm opposed to joining in.

Wow. Way to be extremely offensive. I left Judaism years and years ago and you've managed to offend the crap out of me with that. They're not the same at all and you should apologize for suggesting they are.

Of course I apologize. And as I've already stated, Jews and Nazis are completely different. I was just showing how that if something offends you, or if you disagree with something, it shouldn't be forced upon you. So, although my comments was probably uncalled for, the fact that it offended you proved my point.
So yeah, sorry.

Hey, I think that's a valid comparison. He isn't trying to say that Jews=Nazis or anything like that (though I do think the Zionist faction...... anyways), but it is a commonly known symbol and an easy example. Besides, he already said they were different. Chill out dude.

 

[Still Life]

Tomorrow, my school is taking myself and a few dozen other students to a Jewish museum. I'm totally fine with this, and have no problem accepting other peoples views and opinions. However, my English teacher today told the class that we would be visiting a synagogue, and that every male visitor would have to wear a skullcap. I have no problem with their beliefs, but as soon as they try to make me join in, that's where I draw the line. I'm fine with waiting outside if that's what it takes, and so are most of my friends (the ones that are even bothering to attend, anyway), but I expect that the teachers are going to force us to go with it. I know I'm the visitor, and I'm expected to join in and such, but this is compulsory and I'm not a religious person and do not wish to participate in religious activities. It's against my beliefs.

Do you think I'm in the right here? Or do you think I should just 'man up' and deal with it?
Discuss?
[sub] No flame wars please.[/sub]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I agree with you, but you could see it more as a cultural thing than a religious one. Personally I abstain from all religious ceremonies because I find them offensive to my beliefs.
Politely say that you would rather not join in, and if they try to force you just say that it is against what you believe in, even if you don't believe in anything.

I agree, I don't want them to take it the wrong way, it's just my own personal choice.