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pigeon_of_doom

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Feb 9, 2008
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DeadpanLunatic said:
Subheads are crutches for those who can't manage to create any form of flow. For skilled writers they are at best unnecessary, at worst they create unnecessary pause.
I'd say that's unfair, especially for a web-based medium. Of course, take it too far and you have endless top 5 articles, but in a medium renowned for the fickleness of its readers, anything which allows for text to be removed is a usable tool. The pause isn't unnecessary when it can silently allow a reader to make the connection between subheaders. Although I'm not a skilled writer, so I won't know about their necessity >_>


Trivun said:
Awesome :D. Just give me a topic and a deadline, and if it's a topic I know something about or can research until I know something about it then I'll write it!
Actually, we do have a vague "theme" for the next issue : Game Journalism (yes, very navel gazy far too early on, but at least we're not producing a documentary of ourselves just yet, unlike some web journalism outlets). As far as I know, we're open to pitches on any other topic too. Which is a good thing, as if it was entirely bad journalism criticising bad journalism, that could be a problem :p

(I'm actually very enthusiastic about the progress of games journalism)
 

Fappy

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This is actually really neat. How have I not heard about this until now? I'll give this thing a read during my lunch break and let you know what I think. I'd love to write some stuff for you guys!

EDIT: Just glanced through it before I grab some food and the layout looks interesting but could use some touching up. What program do you use? Also, it seems like you guys are pretty open to just about anything game-related. How do you feel about retrospectives or reviews on sub-modern/retro games?
 

Fappy

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DeadpanLunatic said:
Fappy said:
This is actually really neat. How have I not heard about this until now?
Because we have no real way to advertise this except word of mouth. And yelling at strangers in the streets, but they always look at you funny.
Could always shoot for a community spotlight ;D
 

Trivun

Stabat mater dolorosa
Dec 13, 2008
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DeadpanLunatic said:
Trivun said:
Awesome :D. Just give me a topic and a deadline, and if it's a topic I know something about or can research until I know something about it then I'll write it!
If I just want to cover a certain topic, it would be easier to write about it myself. You'll need to come up with something of your own, because if I have an idea you're pretty far down the list of people I could hand it ot. Of course, if you'll give me an email address I can still add you to our group mails, and maybe one of the occasional prompts I send out will make inspiration strike.
Fair enough then :). I'll write anyway just as I usually do and if I write anything that could potentially go into the magazine then I'll let you know and pitch it to you. I would like to be added to the mailing list though, my email address is [email protected]
 

Fappy

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FargoDog said:
Fappy said:
Could always shoot for a community spotlight ;D
I doubt The Escapist would be up for that, considering they too are always look for article pitches for their own site. Advertising a competitor - no matter how week - isn't in their best interest.

Not that our humble little magazine is meek.

[sub]It's just... Not as big.[/sub]

[sub][sub]It's still very good.[/sub][/sub]

[sub][sub][sub]I'll shutup now.[/sub][/sub][/sub]
Well considering it is advertised as a product of the Escapist Community it is inherently tied to this site. If a lot of people show interest in it... who knows? This site may actually promote it.
 

Chimpzy_v1legacy

Warning! Contains bananas!
Jun 21, 2009
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DeadpanLunatic said:
subheads, sidebars
Subheads are crutches for those who can't manage to create any form of flow. For skilled writers they are at best unnecessary, at worst they create unnecessary pause.
I know many skilled professional writers who would disagree strongly, but that is beside the point. Not every paragraph should have a subhead, but one every 2 or 3 paragraphs helps keep things visually interesting and provides readers with a short pause. And you need pause, especially on a web-based medium where it is very hard to write lengthy articles and get away with it without tiring out your readers. As with many of these things, finding the proper balance is key.

know to 'kill your darlings'
I've personally edited all pieces in the issue. Certainly they are not perfect or above critique, but I don't need any backseat editing either, especially if you admit to not even having read the articles.
Just meant it as a general piece of advice from a former journalist to aspiring ones. I'm sure you've done a good job, but it is something I've seen many beginners forget or underestimate. I used to be guilty of it myself and I still catch myself neglecting it too much. I suppose you could boil it down to 'don't be happy with a text too quickly'. I always find it a good idea to walk away from a text for a few hours to do something else and come back to it later for another reread. There's almost always some unnecessary words you can weed out or a sentence you could phrase a little more compact.
pigeon_of_doom said:
Actually, we do have a vague "theme" for the next issue : Game Journalism (yes, very navel gazy far too early on, but at least we're not producing a documentary of ourselves just yet, unlike some web journalism outlets). As far as I know, we're open to pitches on any other topic too. Which is a good thing, as if it was entirely bad journalism criticising bad journalism, that could be a problem :p

(I'm actually very enthusiastic about the progress of games journalism)
A few years ago I worked for about a year as a professional games journalist for a respected publication (in my country at least). I'm not sure if my experiences were entirely representative of the average games journalist or if anything I can tell you is helpful for what you have in mind, but I would be willing to answer questions about it.
 

Dr. Cakey

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Feb 1, 2011
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I like the cover. Some interesting articles - likely I would have found them more interesting if I played those games. Beside the point.

To answer your question at the top, I'm a fan of opinion pieces myself as long as they have the same opinion as me. I also agree that the features were pretty damn long. The one on Rezzed could have been three articles, I bet.

If somebody wanted to write an article, how would they go about submitting it. You've got an email, but would you prefer "I have an idea for an article about X, do you want an article about X?" or "This is a piece I wrote about X, do you want this piece?" or something else?
 

Maet

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Jul 31, 2008
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chimpzy said:
As other pointed out, more variety in article length will provide your readers with a more pleasant read and breaks up the monotony

Also, include more white space. You seem to want to go for the minimalist, classy style of magazine, so you need a good amount of empty space to let the page breathe a little. Right now, you have quite a few pages that are a wall of text, which is a big no-no for most types of magazines. It is tiring to read and might outright turn off some readers. You used a streamer on some of them, but there are more things you could do:

- using more images is a quick solution, but has the risk of undoing the minimalist approach. You can however also use graphs or even cartoons (if tasteful).
- use more line spacing between paragraphs. This will create more white space, breaks up your text and provides more structure, making your text easier to read.
- speaking of paragraphs: giving them subheads wouldn't hurt, for the same reasons as the comment about more line spacing above. As a rule of thumb these should be short (2-3 words) and descriptive of the paragraphs contents.
- you could put in sidebars that go a little deeper into a term or concept from the body copy.
- Simply leave more white space. Make the gutter between columns a little bigger. Leave some room between headlines/images and body copy

Lastly, know to 'kill your darlings' i.e. leaving out all unnecessary words and information. This might be a superfluous comment as I've only briefly skimmed over the texts (OP, could take a more thorough look if you want), but it is something many aspiring writers tend to forget. If a sentence repeats information already written somewhere earlier in the article, scrap it ,unless the article is very long and the reader might need a reminder. Using a lot of adjectives? You're not writing prose, so unless they're needed to get your point across, get rid of them. Generally speaking, the trick is to find a balance between providing as much information as possible and doing so with the least amount of words.
Thanks for the best layout/design feedback I've received thus far.

I admit, the layout isn't perfect and there are a more than a few things I'd like to work with. Not to make excuses for myself, but this was done over two nights and has been my biggest design project so far. I used to edit a (campus) newspaper, and thus I'd say I inherited most of my design sensibilities from the paper I used to work with: simple, straightforward, striving for some sort of "elegant utilitarian" approach. That's why some pages are pretty simple "walls of text." My efforts to lessen that feeling were pull quotes and that lengthwise red stripe, but I certainly could've done more. Pages 7, 10, 20, and maybe 34 all need a little more. As for white space, I agree there should be more of it. Though personally I think the the baseline, font size, and gutters are all spacious enough, the spaces around images and headlines/bylines/etc. could have been managed better. I suppose I like page 25 in that regard, although the title is too close to the image... whatever. Better luck next time, I guess. :)

More varied illustrations are something I desperately want to have. I actually hate that every picture is either a screenshot (Persona 3, Final Fantasy VII, Skullgirls), video game wallpaper (Spec Ops, Assassin's Creed), or some stock photo (the film reel, cogs and gears, coins.) I would've loved to have have done my own illustrations or recruited a friend to help out, but again, time (and in my case lack of creative skillz) is a challenge. It would've done wonders to make the magazine more unique and visually interesting, as well as to make arranging elements easier since I'd have been working with them since their conception and not just trying to hammer preexisting pieces into my layout. I really hope to change that for next time.

I don't know why subheads are so divisive... I think they're a great idea. Sidebars, too (although I'm sure how to implement them ideally in a two column page). The only issue I have with subheads is ensuring that they're organic and not arbitrary, by which I mean including them because they genuinely work and make sense and not because, "shit, we haven't used one in three paragraphs."


chimpzy said:
DeadpanLunatic said:
Lastly, know to 'kill your darlings'...
I've personally edited all pieces in the issue. Certainly they are not perfect or above critique, but I don't need any backseat editing either, especially if you admit to not even having read the articles.
Just meant it as a general piece of advice from a former journalist to aspiring ones. I'm sure you've done a good job, but it is something I've seen many beginners forget or underestimate. I used to be guilty of it myself and I still catch myself neglecting it too much. I suppose you could boil it down to 'don't be happy with a text too quickly'. I always find it a good idea to walk away from a text for a few hours to do something else and come back to it later for another reread. There's almost always some unnecessary words you can weed out or a sentence you could phrase a little more compact.
Personally, I think it depends on the intent of the publication. If it's a daily newspaper, then yes, economy is everything. But since this is for a magazine that occurs every two months, then I think it's perfectly acceptable to be a bit flowery and ambitious with the writing, especially if the angle calls for it. Long-form writing on specialized topics of interest demand a different approach in comparison to paraphrased press releases and basic news writing. Regardless, I agree that clarity and intelligibility should never be compromised.

DeadpanLunatic said:
Of course, we could spread a 1,500 word article over 20 pages, with image spreads, pull quotes, cartoons, sidebars, graphs and statistics up the wazoo, but past a certain point the effort is hardly worth it. No amount of dressing up will sell the magazine if you just don't like lengthy features, and eventually the spark and glitter gets in the way of actually reading the article without interruption.
Strongly disagree, here. The point is to make the publication appealing and inviting, not to trick people into reading it by dressing it up. For example, I'm pretty sure I'd like to read Kotaku, but that website is hideous and I can't bring myself to read it. Conversely, if I made the text upside down or chose a really ugly font, nobody would even attempt to read it, regardless of if they generally like that sort of content. I should be doing everything I can as layout designer to make the magazine as visually pleasing an easy to read as possible.

Fappy said:
Just glanced through it before I grab some food and the layout looks interesting but could use some touching up. What program do you use?
Adobe InDesign CS5.5. I'm always looking for detailed layout feedback, so I'd love to hear what you have to say. :)
 

pigeon_of_doom

Vice-Captain Hammer
Feb 9, 2008
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chimpzy said:
could take a more thorough look if you want
Not sure if the offer extends to me, but I definitely felt my piece could have been shorter, so if you fancy taking a look at it and sharing any thoughts on structure and writing economy, I'd appreciate it. I'd never tried feature writing before, so views from anyone with experience are definitely appreciated. I've got a lot to learn with the format. It probably would have helped if it hadn't started as a overall report piece than got truncated due to laziness and size.

Dr. Cakey said:
The one on Rezzed could have been three articles
*whistles and looks innocent*

(I'm sorry!)
 

Dr. Cakey

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Feb 1, 2011
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Maet said:
Adobe InDesign CS5.5. I'm always looking for detailed layout feedback, so I'd love to hear what you have to say. :)
I don't know nuthin about design, but it seems to me that a more appealing font might be helpful. What's it called...Calibri, that's the default font for Word (I remember the good old days when Word used Times New Roman...). It might look nicer.


pigeon_of_doom said:
*whistles and looks innocent*

(I'm sorry!)
It just seemed to me like it was a sort of "Rezzed Con feature". "This is what Ubisoft showed, this is what Molyneux showed, and these were what was significant from indies" which maybe could/should have been 1-2 pages on each one instead of all together.

Hell if I know.
 

Fappy

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Maet said:
Way back in ancient times I worked with InDesign CS2 to make the layout for our high school's literary magazine and if it is anything like it was back then I sympathize with any formatting issues! :p

I haven't finished reading through the issue yet but so far the layout has been pretty good. The only issues I have noticed so far are little things that can be ironed out with a bit of extra tweaking. I'll give more specific feedback once I am done reading through it!
 

pigeon_of_doom

Vice-Captain Hammer
Feb 9, 2008
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Dr. Cakey said:
Maet said:
It just seemed to me like it was a sort of "Rezzed Con feature". "This is what Ubisoft showed, this is what Molyneux showed, and these were what was significant from indies" which maybe could/should have been 1-2 pages on each one instead of all together.

Hell if I know.
It definitely could have been segregated. Most games sites deal with these kind of events on a talk by talk basis with less commentary, although they treat it as current news reports, which my piece could never be. A magazine would have split them more noticeably into sections by developer. So, yeah, possibly the wrong approach.

...I really hope people read the magazine before the comments, or they'll just be skipping the Rezzed feature XD
 

Chimpzy_v1legacy

Warning! Contains bananas!
Jun 21, 2009
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Maet said:
Glad to help, although my experience with lay-out is limited, so more in-depth advice is a little difficult, mostly because I don't really know how to explain these things without showing what I mean. You did quite a good job for a first try and with the relatively little time you had, by the way. It's probably superfluous to tell you, but just experiment with different design elements. Some things might not work, but it's the best way to gain more insight into how to structure pages to be attractive.

But, maybe you'd like some reference material. Something you can peruse for inspiration. You probably already know about Kill Screen [http://killscreendaily.com/], but most of those really luxurious fashion and lifestyle magazines are also great for ideas (after all, Kill Screen goes for the same minimalistic style). Same goes for just about any magazine on graphic design. Warning though, these tend to be on the expensive side. Here are some to start you off:
CODE [http://www.codemagazine.eu/page/the_story_behind_this_issue#.UEat_0aix0Q]
Digital Arts [http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/]
Print [http://www.printmag.com/]
Wallpaper* [http://www.wallpaper.com/]

And uh, don't be afraid to steal design elements and adapt them to fit your own lay-out. It really happens a lot, even among professional graphic designers. Unless you outright copy some iconic design feature, no one will think any less of you.

IMO the font you're using is fine, but if you're not really sure about it, you could look into into the Droid font family. It's designed for use on mobile devices, but also works well on larger screens and even on paper. Comes in serif, sans serif and monospace. While it does look a little on the generic side, it is a free software license and you can download it here [http://damieng.com/blog/2007/11/14/droid-font-family-courtesy-of-google-ascender]