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I don't understand... are you trying to sell us a book or is this the political section all of a sudden.
I don't understand why some men are practically scared of women.
Ugh, saddening, this man. This likely GROWN man, acting this way.
Ugh, saddening, this man. This likely GROWN man, acting this way.
Total moron. He SORT of has a point about the Twitch TV thing though.
The people who get tons of views are the gamers that are actually good at the games or have great personalities that people want to watch. Sometimes though, I'll see streams with thousands of viewers with a thumbnail of a girl in a tank top with maximum cleavage playing averagely and not even talking. What do you think people are watching for? If there is no amazing gameplay or commentary it can only be one thing. Just read the chat section to see what they're really thinking.
I'm not scared of women, I have many female guild members in WoW that can kick my ass but if you're flaunting your boobs for views then I have no respect for you. Do what makes you happy, fine but your 'fans' and your channel can go fade away into mediocrity.
The people who get tons of views are the gamers that are actually good at the games or have great personalities that people want to watch. Sometimes though, I'll see streams with thousands of viewers with a thumbnail of a girl in a tank top with maximum cleavage playing averagely and not even talking. What do you think people are watching for? If there is no amazing gameplay or commentary it can only be one thing. Just read the chat section to see what they're really thinking.
I'm not scared of women, I have many female guild members in WoW that can kick my ass but if you're flaunting your boobs for views then I have no respect for you. Do what makes you happy, fine but your 'fans' and your channel can go fade away into mediocrity.
I would like to point something out. Anita Sarkeesian wasn't the subject of so much hate because of her suggestion to critically look at gender roles in games. It was because she was (is) a feminazi, someone that actively closes off any and all remotely negative feedback, gets her followers to bully some individuals that gave negative feedback, and scammed thousands of people out of their money with her kickstarter. All under the excuse of a (very) good cause that would rile a lot of people in right away.
Don't get me wrong, most of the hate she got was totally wrong and even outright disgusting. But it wasn't because of what she claimed she would be doing.
Don't get me wrong, most of the hate she got was totally wrong and even outright disgusting. But it wasn't because of what she claimed she would be doing.
This.DugMachine said:
Also, people seem to automatically assume that you're saying that all girls who play video games are fake or are disingenuous if you point out the relatively small number of people who are being "cam whores".
I don't think that all women who play video games are doing it for the attention, I don't think that they are all pretending to enjoy a pastime and I certainly don't want to forcibly remove their "gamer cred" or whatever. That's just ridiculous.
But everyone seems to jump down my throat whenever I point this out... let's see how it goes this time! Flame shield activated.
Great article! Thanks for writing it! You are extra awesome!DeadpanLunatic said:
I think a LOT of Escapist members could learn from this article. The examples given aren't the only examples of horrid behavior towards women in gamer culture - not by a long shot - and they need to end.
Thanks for writing this article and posting Ms. Hernandez's article - I've bookmarked both for future reference.
Edit: Also - wait, I could make money by streaming my gaming online?
Too bad it requires I game on a PC. If I could stream myself playing Skyrim on PS3, I'd consider creating an twitchTV account.
Edit 2: Also, I think Mia Rose is my new hero.
Edit 4: Note changes above based on clarification later in the thread.
Summarized: An internet **** is a **** to other online cunts, who may or may not have cunts, and they are in turn cunts to him, and cunts like us like watching them be cunts and commenting about how they are massive cunts.
As much as I agree that the golden mean fallacy is something to be avoided, both of these extremes (woman-hating shitheads and self-proclaimed 'feminists' with persecution complexes) are deserving of scorn at pretty much equal degrees. I can only hope they all fall into internet obscurity soon.
Also, apostrophes apparently cause an error inside of spoiler tags, so I had to extend my contractions.
This discourse getting a lot of attention is overall a good thing. Regardless of what methodology you employ examination of your consumption and culture is almost never a negative activity. In this case I think it is incredibly important as there is not a lot of critical theory examining gender dynamics in video games. This lack of discourse ultimately speaks to the lack of artistic recognition most games suffer. However I think it is interesting that any militant and disrespectful reply to these critical investigations only serves to focus the critical gender theorists eye on the gaming culture and gaming artifacts. This is due to the fact that militant responses serve only to expose defensive symptoms of a much larger issue with gender and sexual representations in the larger gaming canon.
Ultimately the more critical theory is leveled at video games the closer the medium comes to gaining recognition as an artistic and truly cultural force.
Ultimately the more critical theory is leveled at video games the closer the medium comes to gaining recognition as an artistic and truly cultural force.
Soooo, basically, his attitude boils down to 'girls are icky!'/'No girls allowed'.
Well, that's kind of silly, isn't it.
Well, that's kind of silly, isn't it.
I think the extent of this anti-women mentality is...well, I hesitate to say blown out of proportion, but it is not the beast a lot of people say it is. The people who are genuinely troll-ish towards girls are a tiny minority, and most of that minority is either attempting to be sexist ironically, or being sexist purely for the sake of trolling ANYONE, not women in particular. Take an actual sample of viewpoints and mentalities of people expressing opinions about games, and its genuinely challenging to find a person who espousing the "Fake geek girl" mentality amidst a sea of people decrying that mentality. Even the monsters of this equation are often times not quite as terrible as they are made out to be.
There are DEFINATELY problems with how the community at large treats women, but those problems are not problems that can be solved by burning our flimsiest straw men. They will involve actively demanding a broader variety of games capable addressing issues of gender in more nuanced ways. It will involve actively dissecting common practices of how games are presented, and developers recognizing problems that they had no intentions of including. It will involve taking risks to add content to games that is not proven to make money, and representing women in a way that currently exists as little more then the rare exception. Imagine a world where if every year, if 100 games are released, if just 5 of them had a Alyx Vance, or Jade, Action Reporter? Or a game that sold sexy males as blatantly as others sell sexy women, and asks that I accept THAT as just part of the price for admission to a gaming experience.
I think that you really hit on a great point with how the community is afraid of loseing legitimacy. The whole culture is afraid of the rise of the casual, of the dumbing down of games, of the obsession with graphics, and many have a glimmer of hope in games elevating itself to where it is seen as just as legitimate, is not BETTER, then movies, books, music or the like. Girls represent this threat in a small way (Through a perception of the rise of the casual gamer), but in a much larger way, the fear is that if games are sexist, then suddenly, they are just defective toys. And that's wrong. Games can have plenty of problems and be legitimate. Just because it does something wrong doesn't mean that it doesn't do many other things right.we may not live in an age where people are very positive on self-criticism, but in the long run, it is better to be self-critical. Its better to acknowledge that a bunch of games can represent something sexist, and it doen't mean you have to stop likeing those game. It just means that there are even better games possible if we think around that sexism.
There are DEFINATELY problems with how the community at large treats women, but those problems are not problems that can be solved by burning our flimsiest straw men. They will involve actively demanding a broader variety of games capable addressing issues of gender in more nuanced ways. It will involve actively dissecting common practices of how games are presented, and developers recognizing problems that they had no intentions of including. It will involve taking risks to add content to games that is not proven to make money, and representing women in a way that currently exists as little more then the rare exception. Imagine a world where if every year, if 100 games are released, if just 5 of them had a Alyx Vance, or Jade, Action Reporter? Or a game that sold sexy males as blatantly as others sell sexy women, and asks that I accept THAT as just part of the price for admission to a gaming experience.
I think that you really hit on a great point with how the community is afraid of loseing legitimacy. The whole culture is afraid of the rise of the casual, of the dumbing down of games, of the obsession with graphics, and many have a glimmer of hope in games elevating itself to where it is seen as just as legitimate, is not BETTER, then movies, books, music or the like. Girls represent this threat in a small way (Through a perception of the rise of the casual gamer), but in a much larger way, the fear is that if games are sexist, then suddenly, they are just defective toys. And that's wrong. Games can have plenty of problems and be legitimate. Just because it does something wrong doesn't mean that it doesn't do many other things right.we may not live in an age where people are very positive on self-criticism, but in the long run, it is better to be self-critical. Its better to acknowledge that a bunch of games can represent something sexist, and it doen't mean you have to stop likeing those game. It just means that there are even better games possible if we think around that sexism.
Women playing video games? Unacceptable! They should be in the kitchen making my dinner and washing and ironing my clothes. That is of course if she is not busy giving birth to my son in the kitchen while making my dinner and washing and ironing my clothes.
Uppity women, what gives them the right to do the same things as us men folk...next they'll want careers and the vote. Not on my watch, not on my watch.
Uppity women, what gives them the right to do the same things as us men folk...next they'll want careers and the vote. Not on my watch, not on my watch.
I think to some extent you may be right based on the fact that the Tropes vs. Women Kickstarter absolutely shattered its fundraising goal. However, it is important to examine such things anyway given that just because an anti-woman mentality is not overt does not mean that is does not exist. But you do raise a fair objection to the backlash towards the overt anti-women gamers.Xanadu84 said: