Sexual fantasies are a whole fuck of a lot easier to act on than your dreams of going on a shooting spree.Jumwa said:I've seen this argument a lot, but I rarely see it applied to other things.The Gentleman said:For the record, that book (50 Shades of Gray, and yes, I know that the title is something else, but let's be honest as to what it's referring to) is terrible. Like the original work the fanfic was based on (Twilight), it teaches extremely dangerous practices in a D/s relationship to the point that a sizable part of the BDSM community has read it to teach newcomers what not to do that they may have in mind.
Not a lot of people kick a fuss over video games manshooters and how they give unrealistic depictions of what it's like to be in a war, or even use a gun.
Or that racing game's encourage people to drive haphazardly.
The book wasn't meant to be a how-to guide on BDSM. It's a work of fiction about some messed up people doing stupid things (with a ridiculous premise). It's meant to entertain, to titillate, not educate. And why should it? Not everything needs to be about that.
I've never read the thing myself, the eye-roll worthy anecdotes from my partners read-through were more than enough for me. It just seems this is a rather unfair standard because it has to do with sex.
I wouldn't be horrified, I'd just say it's bold. Sure you could run around with porn in public, but personally, I think it's nobodies business what porn I read, so I keep it for myself.lacktheknack said:Would you be horrified if I told you I saw a dude hiding his face in a bus, reading 50 Shades of Grey?Piorn said:At least I don't read my porn/VN/Doujin in public/living room or tell everybody about it.
So why do driving games get a pass?cynicalsaint1 said:Sexual fantasies are a whole fuck of a lot easier to act on than your dreams of going on a shooting spree.
You're comparing different situations here that are in no way equivalent.
I'm starting to think you're actually Horatio Caine...DVS BSTrD said:Actually that's still a bit of a grey area.
I am always glad when someone share my opinion and write it in a better way than I was thinking.Jumwa said:I've seen this argument a lot, but I rarely see it applied to other things.The Gentleman said:For the record, that book (50 Shades of Gray, and yes, I know that the title is something else, but let's be honest as to what it's referring to) is terrible. Like the original work the fanfic was based on (Twilight), it teaches extremely dangerous practices in a D/s relationship to the point that a sizable part of the BDSM community has read it to teach newcomers what not to do that they may have in mind.
Not a lot of people kick a fuss over video games manshooters and how they give unrealistic depictions of what it's like to be in a war, or even use a gun.
Or that racing game's encourage people to drive haphazardly.
The book wasn't meant to be a how-to guide on BDSM. It's a work of fiction about some messed up people doing stupid things (with a ridiculous premise). It's meant to entertain, to titillate, not educate. And why should it? Not everything needs to be about that.
I've never read the thing myself, the eye-roll worthy anecdotes from my partners read-through were more than enough for me. It just seems this is a rather unfair standard because it has to do with sex.
Problem being the presentation. The book is marketed as a romance, the author claims it's a romance, and it's sold as one and taken as one, and that's been the pop culture reaction to it.Jumwa said:I've seen this argument a lot, but I rarely see it applied to other things.
Not a lot of people kick a fuss over video games manshooters and how they give unrealistic depictions of what it's like to be in a war, or even use a gun.
Or that racing game's encourage people to drive haphazardly.
The book wasn't meant to be a how-to guide on BDSM. It's a work of fiction about some messed up people doing stupid things (with a ridiculous premise). It's meant to entertain, to titillate, not educate. And why should it? Not everything needs to be about that.
I've never read the thing myself, the eye-roll worthy anecdotes from my partners read-through were more than enough for me. It just seems this is a rather unfair standard because it has to do with sex.
Oh sorry, I thought you'd be able to put one and one together on your own, but apparently I have vastly over estimated you and will need to spell things out.Jumwa said:So why do driving games get a pass?cynicalsaint1 said:Sexual fantasies are a whole fuck of a lot easier to act on than your dreams of going on a shooting spree.
You're comparing different situations here that are in no way equivalent.
Why do movies that display really bad depictions of working out go unnoticed?
You cherry picked one little part of what I said and ignored the whole point (and other example). And I never said anything about a "shooting spree". I spoke of gun use and warzone combat, neither of which is illegal in and of itself, and judging by gun ownership rates in countries like the US and Canada, it's not a very uncommon or difficult thing for people to own and use guns.
Pshhh. My friends read that shit in the middle of classlacktheknack said:Would you be horrified if I told you I saw a dude hiding his face in a bus, reading 50 Shades of Grey?Piorn said:At least I don't read my porn/VN/Doujin in public/living room or tell everybody about it.
OT: Heh. Heh heh. Erin's expression is priceless.
How does it being sold as romance change anything? Have you taken a look at the romance genre? It has always been full of ridiculous tales. Romance books are packed to the brim with "nonconsent" stories for centuries. i.e. A woman gets raped and ends up loving it.Loonyyy said:Problem being the presentation. The book is marketed as a romance, the author claims it's a romance, and it's sold as one and taken as one, and that's been the pop culture reaction to it.
You're an exceptionally rude person, so I'm just going to address a couple silly things you've said.cynicalsaint1 said:So where to couples go to learn about how to act out their BSDM fantasies without it getting abusive or even becoming rape?
I don't know. I mean, the 'love' story in Twilight has a 100+ year old guy stalking a high schooler, thinks sparkles = monster, goes on super violent tirades, and physically abuses his 'love', all the while the 'heroine' does nothing except think that the abuse is her fault, and her one act of standing up for herself is to decide to not get an abortion that would save her life.Grey Carter said:Removing One's Rocks
Actually, no. Not a better love story than Twilight.
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The problem with the former is it is a fair step further than reading a fictional novel about the subject. Wanting to know how it's done is generally step taken after trying to figure out if it is something you'd even want to try. While various kink groups do exist, they are, by and large, on the fringes of society.Jumwa said:They could read an actual how-to BDSM guide. Or join a group with others who practice, every city in the western world is guaranteed to have at least one if you go looking for them.
It is far and away the most famous work portraying the subject.Jumwa said:It is not as if 50 Shades of Grey (an absurdly delusional novel where the portrayal of BDSM isn't the most ludicrous thing by far) is the only readily available source for this stuff.
False equivalence is a classic rhetorical fallacy. In your case, you attempt to draw equivalence between someone playing a game (for example) and learning violent actions and reading a book dealing, in large part, with BDSM and using it as a source of ideas.Jumwa said:Finally, by your rationale we could never compare anything. There is no absolute equivalence, you could compare two toys off the same assembly line and there will be real anomalies between them, but that kind of thinking is absurd, same as yours.
BDSM is an activity that any two people could consent to and then engage in using only the objects likely already on their person. By contrast, building and then piloting a spaceship is far outside the realm of what the average person is going to be able to accomplish. Having the most famous book on the subject ever written in the English language means that lots of people are going to read it specifically to learn about a subject loaded with taboos.Jumwa said:Fiction is full of unrealistic depictions of everything, from spaceships to eating. To hold one silly little romance book to high standards of safe realism despite everything else we let slide is hypocritical and harmful in itself.
No one blames the writer for anything other than bad writing. There does not appear to be any malice on her part or even intent that the book be used as a guide. But, again, when you reach the level of popularity that 50 Shades of Grey has, the author's intent becomes lost and largely irrelevant in the argument.Jumwa said:And this is all ignoring the fact that in the book itself the characters improper pseudo-BDSM relationship ends up causing them to have all sorts of problems. It is no more the writers fault if some silly people imitate that than anything else.