Removing Voice Acting and Cinematics to reduce the costs of video games.
- Thread starter krazykidd
- Start date
I'd definitely be happy to play a game without voice acting, or at least without voiced dialogue. Sure, if you go the fable route and get an all star cast it can be good, but normally it doesn't really add all that much to the game, is fucking expensive, and most importantly, massively limits what the writers are able to do. Just look at the difference in quest structures between FO 1 and 2 and 3 and New Vegas. With voice acting you can do say multiple ending quests, with perhaps one or two branches. But every time you add a new way of completing it, you got to work out, before testing, all the possible solutions, write everything, in it's final form, to be voiced, and pay voice acters to read through all of it. If it's just written you just need to write it, with the option of changing it later.
Voice acting is good and all, but given the cost, it's a shame it's been adopted almost universally.
Cutscenes? Whatever. I say get rid of them simply because they're used so badly so often.
Voice acting is good and all, but given the cost, it's a shame it's been adopted almost universally.
Cutscenes? Whatever. I say get rid of them simply because they're used so badly so often.
Yeah, I'd be perfectly willing to sacrifice all those things, considering I still do play games with no voices and no cutscenes and rank some of them among my favourites, and I distinctly remember making a post not that long ago about how the over-reliance on voice acting and cutscenes have really limited certain types of games and their ability to tell stories.
Like, put it this way, I'm convinced that FFXIII was originally intended to have a better paced, longer story with a lot more detail, characterisation and build up, but they ended up having to sacrifice it along with huge chunks of the plot that would have made things in the game make more sense because the way they told their story was almost entirely through cutscenes, meaning they couldn't devote any more time to having someone talk because then they'd have to render another cutscene and justify the expense by making it three minutes long.
Like, put it this way, I'm convinced that FFXIII was originally intended to have a better paced, longer story with a lot more detail, characterisation and build up, but they ended up having to sacrifice it along with huge chunks of the plot that would have made things in the game make more sense because the way they told their story was almost entirely through cutscenes, meaning they couldn't devote any more time to having someone talk because then they'd have to render another cutscene and justify the expense by making it three minutes long.
Nobody ever said story would be removed. You don't need cinematics to tell a story with a game. Refer to Extra Credits' "Narrative Mechanics" episode.bob-2000 said:
No, not unless it was a game that did not call for these things.krazykidd said:
No.krazykidd said:
I expect any AAA titles to be at the maximum level of "polish" anyway. If there is any potential for a higher quality game given more development timethen I would expect the developer to delay release. Anything else is unacceptable.krazykidd said:
Simply, if a game probably should have voice acting and cinematics, then I will expect it to do so. If it does not and thus "costs less" then that simply won't be good enough because I would rather pay more for a complete product than less for a gimped one.
But not every game is Morrowind, and I certainly don't want it to be. While some games suffer from cutscenes or voice acting, others absolutely can't do without them if you want them to be as effective. Mass Effect wouldn't work without its cinematics and certainly not without its talented voice cast.Saelune said:
Heck, some voice actors live of off doing video game voices, do you honestly want to ruin their main source of income?
Voice acting depends on the game.
Cinematics depends on the game.
Only if doing shitty on those two aspects of the game, make the game MUCH MUCH better.
For example: Ogre Battle 64 doesn't have any voice acting, and there are no cinematics (they're the same quality as regular gameplay), yet its one of my favorite games of all time.
But if a game like Diablo got rid of voice acting and/or cinematics, I wouldn't get to know and sympathize any of the characters, and when you kill Baal... grats I guess? Tyreal will just do his thing, don't worry about watching...
And a game like Final Fantasy cutting out each would leave the player playing it just for gameplay, and not for the "well fleshed out characters" or snazzy cinematics (something FF is very good at)
Cinematics depends on the game.
Only if doing shitty on those two aspects of the game, make the game MUCH MUCH better.
For example: Ogre Battle 64 doesn't have any voice acting, and there are no cinematics (they're the same quality as regular gameplay), yet its one of my favorite games of all time.
But if a game like Diablo got rid of voice acting and/or cinematics, I wouldn't get to know and sympathize any of the characters, and when you kill Baal... grats I guess? Tyreal will just do his thing, don't worry about watching...
And a game like Final Fantasy cutting out each would leave the player playing it just for gameplay, and not for the "well fleshed out characters" or snazzy cinematics (something FF is very good at)
I don't play games that aren't in my language. Sorry there is so many good experiences out there that are in my own, why would I buy something that is just text adventures with emotional gibberish over it.Rodrigo Girao said:
Dubbing will get more buys from people like me who want to experience something different, but not make the game a chore.
My apologies if someone already brought this to your attention, but polishing the game is usually something that programmers and game designers do. You'd be freeing up some money for these people, but you might not get them a whole lot of extra time. I suppose you could hire some more employees with your fat cinematic budget, but that's a potentially dubious proposition. Many hands may make light work, but managing how they work can get to be a real *****-and-a-half.krazykidd said:
My opinion, I'd be willing to sacrifice on cinematics for better voice acting (and hiring a few writers, while you're at it). Cinematics are nice to look at, but it's the voice acting that really makes the characters come to life, and that makes the story more engaging. And nothing, NOTHING, ruins a game faster than hearing an important and otherwise likable character speak with the voice of a 14-year-old frontal lobotomy patient.
If you really must cut both cinematics and voice acting, you'd better beef up your mocap budget a little, because you're going to have to do a lot more character-building using the in-game engine. And you'll have to do twice as good a job on the writing, making it as efficient and readable as possible, so as not to bore to death all those 14-year-olds who aren't lobotomy patients, but still can't fucking read.
krazykidd said:
a) voice acting yes, few games have good voice acting anyway, cutscenes, depends on the game, but long as it works yeah
b) eeyup
c) see answer for A
honestly we could lose voice acting and we'd lose nothing, but losing cutscenes would be a bit harder to justify, losing the LONG ass hour long ones, yeah, those can go, but the short ones, like say, Samus's thoughts on the elevator rides in Fusion, those work well, short, to the point and we're back to blasting stuff
I find it a little creepy how down people are on cutscenes. I like my games to have a good, fleshed out story and if cutscenes help with that, I say go. And I just want to chime in that I'd like to get into voice acting someday.
One more thing. "Would you kindly?"
One more thing. "Would you kindly?"
Depends on type of game.
If it was an RPG then no, I like cinematics and voice acting in my RPG's.
FPS, more than likely, stories are usually generic as hell anyway so we wouldn't be missing much.
2d fighters need no frills.
Balls who am I kidding, I like my cinematics and I like NPC's I meet to have some form of character and a voice.
If a game came out with neither of them then it would be like it was when I started gaming in the 80's. I've been there and done that and don't fancy going back to it.
If it was an RPG then no, I like cinematics and voice acting in my RPG's.
FPS, more than likely, stories are usually generic as hell anyway so we wouldn't be missing much.
2d fighters need no frills.
Balls who am I kidding, I like my cinematics and I like NPC's I meet to have some form of character and a voice.
If a game came out with neither of them then it would be like it was when I started gaming in the 80's. I've been there and done that and don't fancy going back to it.
A) No I would not. Thinking about the type of games I like most specifically Portal two. The game had great visuals and game play but without voice acting it just wouldn't have been the same.
B) No again. I would rather pay more money for more quality voice acting/cut scenes than save some money and play a bland game.
C) This one was a bit tougher but again I would say no. I like a game with good story and identifiable characters and well done voice acting and cut scenes can really improve these two aspects. I could see how this might work for COD or something but for a game like red dead redemption or assassin's creed this sounds awful to me.
Catchpa: stimulate niclis
I will most certainly not, ew.
B) No again. I would rather pay more money for more quality voice acting/cut scenes than save some money and play a bland game.
C) This one was a bit tougher but again I would say no. I like a game with good story and identifiable characters and well done voice acting and cut scenes can really improve these two aspects. I could see how this might work for COD or something but for a game like red dead redemption or assassin's creed this sounds awful to me.
Catchpa: stimulate niclis
I will most certainly not, ew.
Honestly, I need voice acting. And good voice acting.
As for cinematics, most engines hold up to scrutiny these days so its not like many people are using pre-rendered ones any more, I don't see how they're costing that much more. Some games could do with taking cues from the likes of Half-Life though.
As for cinematics, most engines hold up to scrutiny these days so its not like many people are using pre-rendered ones any more, I don't see how they're costing that much more. Some games could do with taking cues from the likes of Half-Life though.
Yes, no and yes.
I don't care a damn about cinematics. They aren't difficult or expensive to make in comparison to the rest of the game and do not add nearly as much as any other component (I'm a firm believer of "Show, don't tell".
Voice acting on the other hand does add a lot to a game. A good game can become great with great VA behind it. It creates better immersion, gives NPCs more character and realism. It shouldn't come at the expense of polish however, that is paramount. In order of importance, for me a great game would go:
Polish -> Immersion -> Story/Characters -> Customisation/Freedom of choice -> Size of game/game world -> VA -> Graphics -> Music/SFX -> Price -> Multiplayer
I only put MP on the list for the sake of completion.
I don't care a damn about cinematics. They aren't difficult or expensive to make in comparison to the rest of the game and do not add nearly as much as any other component (I'm a firm believer of "Show, don't tell".
Voice acting on the other hand does add a lot to a game. A good game can become great with great VA behind it. It creates better immersion, gives NPCs more character and realism. It shouldn't come at the expense of polish however, that is paramount. In order of importance, for me a great game would go:
Polish -> Immersion -> Story/Characters -> Customisation/Freedom of choice -> Size of game/game world -> VA -> Graphics -> Music/SFX -> Price -> Multiplayer
I only put MP on the list for the sake of completion.
Without these aspects how would the game tell the story? Sure you could argue that the game could tell the story without cinematics and tell the story while the character is in control but without voice acting there is no way you could tell a decent story.krazykidd said:
Consider the CoD games (probably seen by most to have the most basic story) without voice acting there would be no way to explain whats going on and you'd just be doing linear run and guns with no idea why. Even in mission voice acting is crucial to creating an atmosphere, when you hear NPCs shouting orders and threats it add another layer onto the gameplay.
Are voice actors even paid enough? As I understood it, even an amazingly talented lead (i.e. Jennifer Hale as female Shepard) was paid next to nothing. The rate I've seen floating around the internet is insulting, both to her contribution and her talent as well. The amount a video game actor makes would be financially negligible if it'd been for a third-rate informercial, yet it's still the industry standard.
Maybe I'm misinformed, but I would pay more for a game with high-quality storytelling and gameplay. Voice acting and cinematics are both crucial elements of storytelling, I don't know if I'd buy a game without them.
Maybe I'm misinformed, but I would pay more for a game with high-quality storytelling and gameplay. Voice acting and cinematics are both crucial elements of storytelling, I don't know if I'd buy a game without them.
O RLY? Even if the dubbing sounds like...NightlyNews said:
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I think we can all agree, that would have been easier on the ears in the original Japanese
I think we can all agree, that would have been easier on the ears in the original Japanese
I'm sorry, but if you hate reading so much that you're willing to put up with ear-rapeage of that severity, you deserve what you get. And yes, that's pretty much the worst of the worst as far as bad dubbing goes, but I think it drives the point home that re-dubbing a foreign-language game might not necessarily be worth the investment.
After all, were ICO and Shadow of the Colossus such bad games, just because all the characters spoke in Greek? Or was that Japanese? Greekajanese? Whatever.
... I hope that oozing arrogance was unintentional.NightlyNews said:
Languages are beautiful things, it's worth your while to explore those that aren't yours sometimes (I speak two fluently and am familiar with two more myself). It's just downright ignorant to dismiss languages that aren't your own as "gibberish", in my experience I strongly prefer to watch anything I can get my hands on in its original spoken language and read subtitles, because well, that version is how the artist(s) intended it to be seen and heard, and often times will indeed be the best (vocal) experience.
Not to mention that when you dub a game there still is a considerable chance that the "actors" picked can't act their way out of a paper bag, as last year's Arc Rise Fantasia and several other JRPGs featured on Unskippable can attest. So I'll take the original Japanese performance (or German, French or other countries with strong developers) over a weak dub.
And I'll just quote this for emphasis, it is indeed true that compared to film or even TV actors, voice actors are played surprisingly little and have to basically be constantly busy to try and get by.Ava Elzbieta said: