Report: Windows 10's Mandatory Updates Are Breaking Data Caps

[nyysjan]

"It's their own fault for not knowing beforehand." -Every IT guy ever.

OT: I hope MS does something to fix this ASAP. Smells like something a lawyer might want to take MS to court over.

Hey, I'm IT and I don't say that. Mainly because it is one of those things that most users wont think about. It's actually not a bad idea, to force updates since most people turn those off if given the choice. You need updates to help plug security holes on your machine, an un-updated machine is just a security risk. But obviously microsoft didn't really take data caps into account. Which kind of makes sense, they are in a connected city.

The first bolded part is proven wrong be second bolded part.
Which still ignores that even with no data caps, i still have limited bandwith at any given second, and i may need that bandwith for something else, so not allowing me to choose when i update is unoptimal at best.

 

[Worgen]

"It's their own fault for not knowing beforehand." -Every IT guy ever.

OT: I hope MS does something to fix this ASAP. Smells like something a lawyer might want to take MS to court over.

Hey, I'm IT and I don't say that. Mainly because it is one of those things that most users wont think about. It's actually not a bad idea, to force updates since most people turn those off if given the choice. You need updates to help plug security holes on your machine, an un-updated machine is just a security risk. But obviously microsoft didn't really take data caps into account. Which kind of makes sense, they are in a connected city.

The first bolded part is proven wrong be second bolded part.
Which still ignores that even with no data caps, i still have limited bandwith at any given second, and i may need that bandwith for something else, so not allowing me to choose when i update is unoptimal at best.

Windows updates aren't like steam games, they don't try to power though. Windows updates tend to trickle, which is very annoying when you want to update fast and it takes 2 hours to download updates totaling a gig. Unless you're on a slow connection you probably won't really notice it. And overall, an un-updated machine is more of a danger than you would think it would be.

 

[Cowabungaa]

To me, if anything, this just proves how incredibly out of date (hah) datacaps are for 'land line' connections. I can't really blame for Microsoft not taking those into account because Christ those things have to go just so fast.

I'm still on the fence whether forcing updates is a good or bad thing though. Somehow a lot of the "I want control!" complaints seem a bit...pedantic. Like, sure, I get where you're coming from, but the whole "It's about the principle." makes me go "Come now..." in certain situations. I'm all for principles, but in certain situations I'm definitely a pragmatist.

If you ask me there's worse things we can worry about in Windows 10, though luckily I mostly dealt with those issues already, aka the privacy things. I'm not all the bothered about Windows 10 otherwise. Goddamn everyone's so angry...

 

[Something Amyss]

You know all those viruses and malware windows always get? Odds are it's cause people didn't update. So when shit hits the fan people whine and scream about thet aren't doing enough. Blame morons who defer updates as long as possible and then get affected.

I'm not even talking about the mandatory updates. I'm talking about mandatory updates that are capable of killing someone's data caps. I mean, I am against these data caps and all, but they're pretty freaking well-established.

 

[Jamash]

How are these updates so huge in the first place? Or is it the caps that are tiny? I know there are some landline Internet services that come with data caps, but they're massive. So why... Wait, we're talking about people getting these updates over their cellular Internet, aren't we. Because Windows 8+ "laptops" are actually tablets with snap-on keyboards and SIM cards inside. Well, no wonder then.

Still, Apple's never had this problem, probably because they treat their tablets like actual tablets and understand that people are limited in how much Internet they can use on them, so they only update when you're connected through wi-fi or plugged into your computer.

I don't think the updates are that huge, but you have to take into account that Windows 10 has only been out for a month, and had to be downloaded, so part of that woman's huge monthly bill would have been downloading the 3GB upgrade (which she chose to do, or was at least ignorant to the fact that the Windows 10 upgrade would have to download the OS when she signed up to it).

It still doesn't add up though, because the cost of the bill she's claiming the Windows 10 updates caused represents going over her data cap to the tune of almost 14GB (other sources has said her bill was $NZ600, and her montly plan was $NZ49 with 4 cents per megabyte over the cap) so even if she maxed out her monthly allowance before allowing her current version of Windows to download the 3GB Windows 10 upgrade, there's still around 10GB unaccounted for, and there's no way that Windows 10 has pushed out 10GB worth of updates (or over 3 times it's install size) in the first month of launch.

Not to mention that there is a setting for metered connections which prevents Windows automatically downloading huge files and causing people to go over their allowance on mobile or capped connections (which this woman's Cook Island ISP would have been), but she probably didn't enable that setting (or even look at the settings when she upgraded).

If Windows 10 is really responsible for this woman going over her data cap by such a massive amount, I can only guess that she though her current version of Windows would upgrade to Windows 10 without downloading any files, then she went onto the Windows store and downloaded lots of app, thinking they were already part of the OS and already on her computer.

Another possibility is that she didn't change any of the setting and update settings, so as well as Windows 10 not knowing that she was on a capped connection, she had also opted to allow her computer seed updates to other computers like a torrent, so she could have actually been uploading the small Windows 10 updates to all other computers in the Cook Islands.

If this is all true, then she's probably fallen victim of the default settings because she just clicked on Express Setup or didn't really read what any of the setting did when she installed Windows 10... if she was even present in the first place. She could have just let her computer upgrade to Windows 10 overnight and not change any of the settings when she turned it back on, expecting it to function in exactly the same manner as her previous version of Windows.

 

[nyysjan]

"It's their own fault for not knowing beforehand." -Every IT guy ever.

OT: I hope MS does something to fix this ASAP. Smells like something a lawyer might want to take MS to court over.

Hey, I'm IT and I don't say that. Mainly because it is one of those things that most users wont think about. It's actually not a bad idea, to force updates since most people turn those off if given the choice. You need updates to help plug security holes on your machine, an un-updated machine is just a security risk. But obviously microsoft didn't really take data caps into account. Which kind of makes sense, they are in a connected city.

The first bolded part is proven wrong be second bolded part.
Which still ignores that even with no data caps, i still have limited bandwith at any given second, and i may need that bandwith for something else, so not allowing me to choose when i update is unoptimal at best.

Windows updates aren't like steam games, they don't try to power though. Windows updates tend to trickle, which is very annoying when you want to update fast and it takes 2 hours to download updates totaling a gig. Unless you're on a slow connection you probably won't really notice it. And overall, an un-updated machine is more of a danger than you would think it would be.

I know how big of a risk unapdated machine is, which is why i check my updates almost obsessively.
But i do not keep automated updates on because:
A: there are times when i don't have time for them (so i do update next time i open/close my computer).
B: not all updates are relevant (i have no skype, i need no skype, i want no skype, so fucking stop offering me skype updates).

And while i am not on a slow connection, some people are, and making their connection worse at random times without any input from them is, in my opinion, not ok.

To me, if anything, this just proves how incredibly out of date (hah) datacaps are for 'land line' connections. I can't really blame for Microsoft not taking those into account because Christ those things have to go just so fast.

I can blame them, it's a well known issue, at least in US, i know it's an issue, and i live in fricking Finland and have never had a connection with data caps.

Yes, data caps are stupid, outdated and predatory towards the customer, but they exist, and any software developer who wants to sell their software to large majority of the people needs to recognice them.

Widowns 10 should come with somekind of virtual warning label reading
"WARNING: This software may cause constant high data stream that you can't turn of"
or something.

Still intending to switch myself, just asa test, but will be keeping a copy of my windows 7 on a separate hdd, just in case (would have switched already, but the damn thing keeps choking and won't actually update).

 

[votemarvel]

How the hell could anyone have thought this was a good idea?

You know all those viruses and malware windows always get? Odds are it's cause people didn't update. So when shit hits the fan people whine and scream about thet aren't doing enough. Blame morons who defer updates as long as possible and then get affected.

I've had a computer for over 20 years. I never moved XP past SP2 and uninstalled automatic updates from it.

Yet in all that time I've never been infected by malware or a virus. I have no problem with automatic updates being default on, I don't think anyone would have issue with it.

In the end I get to decide what is installed on my system, not Microsoft.

 

[Frezzato]

Spoiler

Wow, neither the article nor any of the comments so far have worked out that this is not due to the updates being mandatory...

(Seriously, a whopping 7 updates have been released so far

Spoiler

and I can't imagine any of them being multi-gigabyte downloads yet)

No, the culprit is rather Windows Update's new peer-to-peer implementation which shares the updates you've downloaded with other Windows 10 users over the internet.

Spoiler

Just like turning one's PC into an always-on bittorrent seedbox, this can chew through one's bandwidth cap like no one's business, especially if one's ISP differentiates between upload and download bandwidth caps.

Fortunately, as my screenshot shows, you can disable this, or enable it only for other PCs on your network. Not only does the latter option not increase your bandwidth usage, if you have multiple Windows 10 devices it can actually decrease it by letting the update download only once and be shared among those devices.

Why does this revelation disturb me so much?

Also, why hasn't anyone else responded to your post?

 

[WarpedMind]

Windows 10 is seriously a fucking train-wreck, I can't grasp why anyone would update to a brand new OS within the first month, there is almost nothing to be gained and so much to be potentially lost.

Between this, the "For your own good" data scanning, the involuntary telemetry and all the other issues 10 is looking like the worst OS since Vista.

 

[CrystalShadow]

If you're enthusiast with a spare PC to try Win 10 out, that is fine. If you're a PC illiterate person who thinks higher numbers are better or a PC-savvy someone without a spare PC to potentially suffer major downtime to installs and roll-backs, stay away.

I largely agree in principle. Even though I don't have a spare PC... (well, technically I do), but that's fine.

Some of the stuff going on behind the scenes concerns me a little, but that isn't a technical issue, it's a a concern about how microsoft is behaving with relation to data collection and the like.

Anyway, as someone who did upgrade, I have to say this so far has been the least troublesome OS switch I've ever done. Nothing else has worked this flawlessly.
Relatively speaking.

Because, it wasn't flawless. It had a very weird glitch to do with UAC and the system sounds involved. But once I knew what the problem was, it was amongst the most trivial things to fix.
(Very weird glitch though)

And yes, it tried to do some awkward things with user accounts and trying to tie things into my microsoft account in a... Questionable way.

Am I worried about having installed it from a technical point of view? No.
It works more reliably than the windows 7 install I upgraded from (which was actually more prone to weird glitches than windows 10 has been), and it's not especially painful to use.
A few odd changes, but mostly fairly intuitive, and some quite useful.

If I have concerns they all lay with what it might be doing in the background, with stuff it doesn't openly admit to doing...
That's hard to judge, but waiting wouldn't have helped that much.

[hr]
I have to say though, the topic of the thread itself...

It's always been a pet peeve of mine that programs, operating systems utilities and whatever blindly assume everyone has an always on, completely unrestricted internet connection.
It's fine if you do, (like I do in fact), but if you don't, the behaviour gets very frustrating.
From programs falling over, annoying notifications, and of course, data abuse that you may not be able to afford...

It's a nasty trend.
It was nasty in 2000, it's nasty now, and it's like nobody has really learnt the lessons...
Or considered why implementing things that way is quite bad...

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

How the hell could anyone have thought this was a good idea?

You know all those viruses and malware windows always get? Odds are it's cause people didn't update. So when shit hits the fan people whine and scream about thet aren't doing enough. Blame morons who defer updates as long as possible and then get affected.

I've had a computer for over 20 years. I never moved XP past SP2 and uninstalled automatic updates from it.

Yet in all that time I've never been infected by malware or a virus. I have no problem with automatic updates being default on, I don't think anyone would have issue with it.

In the end I get to decide what is installed on my system, not Microsoft.

And for one of you there are 50 others who get infected and blame someone else for something that was 90% their fault. You or me or most people on this site are not the major peice of the market. Gotta stop acting like that because it isn't a reality.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

On the datacap thing, maybe now this is the thing to make people scream more at ISPs. Something has to push people to scream for the removal of the caps, because it won't be the ISPs. If not this it would be something like 4K streaming with netflix.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Urg, I swear to god they better get this shit sorted out by the time Killer Instinct Season 3 rolls out.
That's the only reason I'm even considering getting an upgrade and even then it's only because it's cheaper then an Xbone and a Xbone subscription.

 

[SecondPrize]

Okay, one: this is a problem with data caps. I don't know why Americans continue to allow these to exist when we're not talking wireless and B: If someone wants to do something stupid that's always been their choice. If you see me acting like a wild man and turning off my windows updates, perhaps I have a fucking reason for this and you don't have enough data to make an informed decision so just maybe you should stop trying to protect me from my own stupidity because that has never worked in all of our history.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

To all the people arguing about this being proof that the American system supporting cable companies with their data caps, the complaint is from New Zealand. I don't see how the US getting rid of data caps would affect the Cook Islands.

 

[devotedsniper]

Can't say I even knew data caps were still a thing on home broadband but then again I am in an area where I can and do get the fastest home internet connection in the country. Hell even my "unlimited" cap on my 3/4G phone is something insane like 1TB.

I like some of the aesthetic changes, but otherwise Windows 10 hasn't been worth it. My laptop runs significantly slower (with an SSD mind you), it eats away at my bandwidth, and it stripped away a lot of features that came default with Windows 8.1 (which, screw you guys, is a decent OS after installing Pokki). I'd say hold off on upgrading for about 8 months. Maybe Microsoft will do what they did with the XBox One and reverse some of their insanely batshit policies.

Just a quick note if you just did the upgrade it will run considerably slower, my work laptop (3 months old, powerful machine with ssd for programming) ran like a dog till I did the built in reset and now it's a hell of a lot quicker than it was on 8.1.

 

[votemarvel]

And for one of you there are 50 others who get infected and blame someone else for something that was 90% their fault. You or me or most people on this site are not the major piece of the market. Gotta stop acting like that because it isn't a reality.

If those people choose to bork up their system then that is nothing to do with me. Why should someone else's idiocy be the reason to restrict the options I have available.

Do those people really turn automatic updates off or do they just leave it on and somehow still mess up their computer. My guess would be the latter.