Respect for old craftsmen?

[tkioz]

So over the weekend I got into an argument with a friend, he came over while I was listening to a recording of a concert by The London Symphony Orchestra and somehow the conversation turned to musical instruments and Stradivarius came up, I love music, I can't play anything, but I love listening.

Anyway he argued something fiercely that Stradivarius violins are "overrated" because modern manufacture has produced violins that blind tests have shown to have better quality, and I argued back that the sense of history about the instrument gives the player an advantage, knowing that they are playing on the same violin that such great artists have used before.

Anyway it ended with us agreeing to disagree, but I realised something, the Stradivarius' were made centuries ago, and the fact we're only now able to better them using biotech research and advanced construction says something incredible about the workmanship.

Do you think that just because we can make "better" instruments now that we shouldn't respect the old craftsmen?

 

[blinkgun96]

Clearly you have never heard of Nichola Tesla.

 

[InnerRebellion]

In short: No.

Spoiler: Sort of long reply that I feel like putting in a fancy box.

No, we need to respect them. Most of the things we create are just improvements of their creations (in my opinion at least). For example, our highway system in America makes me think of the Roman road network, just merely made out of better, more expendable materials. When it comes to musical instruments, I say older is better. For example, I own two ocarinas. One was passed down from generation to generation since my ancestors arrived in America. The other was ordered online. I feel like the family heirloom ocarina plays much better because it has a history in my family's time in this country. So, I say your friend, no offense to him, comes off as a bit of a "modern elitist". A modern elitist, by my terms, is someone who is completely convinced that everything made in modern times is superior to beautiful, aged creations.

 

[Nickolai77]

If manufactured instuments sound better than handcrafted ones fair enough. However, hand crafted instuments, being hand-made and often old, would have a greater value.

So:

Manufactured instument: Sounds better

Hand-Made instument: Doesn't quite sound so good, but the instument itself is worth a lot more.

 

[Blueruler182]

...Well, I feel like a complete dumbass after reading that. The most complicated subject I've ever gotten into with my friends is the morality of using a satellite-base audio-weapon to subdue people by altering their brainwaves, and I was the only one who said "don't play god" despite not being religious.

But, to answer your question, no. I'll look at a modern day church and think it's a piece of crap, but I'll see one of those old ones and... wow. I'm not religious, but that takes my breath away. The craftsmanship is amazing, and the fact that it will fall down during the next earthquake (god forbid any time soon, I live on the west coast) makes it all the more amazing.

 

[BonsaiK]

So over the weekend I got into an argument with a friend, he came over while I was listening to a recording of a concert by The London Symphony Orchestra and somehow the conversation turned to musical instruments and Stradivarius came up, I love music, I can't play anything, but I love listening.

Anyway he argued something fiercely that Stradivarius violins are "overrated" because modern manufacture has produced violins that blind tests have shown to have better quality, and I argued back that the sense of history about the instrument gives the player an advantage, knowing that they are playing on the same violin that such great artists have used before.

Anyway it ended with us agreeing to disagree, but I realised something, the Stradivarius' were made centuries ago, and the fact we're only now able to better them using biotech research and advanced construction says something incredible about the workmanship.

Do you think that just because we can make "better" instruments now that we shouldn't respect the old craftsmen?

As a musician and violin player I can tell you that a great player can make any worthless piece of junk instrument sound amazing, and a bad player will always sound bad no matter what they hold.

Stradivarius was very good at equalizing resonances of different frequencies when making his instruments, this is the quality that made those instruments so highly regarded back in the day, this workmanship meant that the player of the instrument didn't have to try quite as hard to compensate and equalise their own volume when moving between strings and pitches. In other words, the instruments didn't sound better, they played better (that is, in the hands of someone who knew what they were doing - an amateur with poor volume control across the board would probably not even notice the benefit). If someone picks up such an instrument today, it still has this quality. It has nothing to do with "the greats played it", that's a load of horse-puckey, it's just a really well-built instrument. Mind you, some violin players really do believe in the tooth fairy so they may be able to squeeze some kind of psychological advantage out of it.

The same effect is replicable today. Advances in acoustic technology have made it possible to analyse resonant frequencies using computer modelling and then cut specific wood to suit, whereas the old builders had to do it all either by ear (trial and error) or with mathematics. Yes, this does mean that old Strad was pretty fucking hot shit back in the day, however people who pay outrageous sums for those old instruments are generally doing it for the investment/collector value (the instruments usually then get hired or loaned out to expert players for big performances). It's like someone buying a 1956 Fender Strat for $200,000 when the build quality of the things is actually superior in a new one that costs 1/100th of the price. Psychologically, it's the same reason who people feel compelled to post "First!" in threads, it's the same chimpanzee part of the brain at work.

 

[Kpt._Rob]

Why can't we do both? Having respect for the old craftsmen, but still indulging in the objectively better work of newer craftsmen? Let me give an example. A lot of people here on the Escapist have a great love for H.P. Lovecraft. Every time I see a thread about him, however, I say the same thing. Lovecraft is a very important author, horror today would not be what it is without him. That said, others have since built on the foundations he laid, and written far superior stories. To go back and read Lovecraft now, his writing is painfully slow, his main characters tend to be the same character over and over again with a different name, and oftentimes even his plots are recycled. I still respect him because if he hadn't laid the way, I couldn't read from authors whose works are, pure and simple, just a better read.

It is the same in other fields, of course we should respect the craftsmen of old, but that doesn't mean that the new isn't better.

 

[tkioz]

It has nothing to do with "the greats played it", that's a load of horse-puckey, it's just a really well-built instrument. Mind you, some violin players really do believe in the tooth fairy so they may be able to squeeze some kind of psychological advantage out of it.

I don't know, it depends on the person, I don't think you need to be delusional or believe in some kind of mystic force to get benefit out of something like that, I did competition shooting back in my teen years, and I used all kinds of modern small calibre firearms, things designed to be as close to perfect as possible, all ergonomic/etc but I always felt most comfortable and shot my best using a firearm almost 100 years old, it was clunky, it was over balanced at the rear, the sights were never just right... but it had been in my family since 1922 and used by 4 generations of my family.

So the sense of history I got out of it was something tangible, the smell of the wood, how it felt in my hands, it seemed more real and earthy too me, I never used it in actual competitions, but when I was practising and having a horrible time of it, out came the old Lithgo, and some how I always seemed to get back into the grove, then back to the plastic fantastic modern day stuff.

But I think you're right that the value comes from their rarity and history, not out of any superiority to modern violins, but you can't under estimate the impact holding something like that might have on the player.

 

[goldenjester]

Why can't we do both? Having respect for the old craftsmen, but still indulging in the objectively better work of newer craftsmen? Let me give an example. A lot of people here on the Escapist have a great love for H.P. Lovecraft. Every time I see a thread about him, however, I say the same thing. Lovecraft is a very important author, horror today would not be what it is without him. That said, others have since built on the foundations he laid, and written far superior stories. To go back and read Lovecraft now, his writing is painfully slow, his main characters tend to be the same character over and over again with a different name, and oftentimes even his plots are recycled. I still respect him because if he hadn't laid the way, I couldn't read from authors whose works are, pure and simple, just a better read.

It is the same in other fields, of course we should respect the craftsmen of old, but that doesn't mean that the new isn't better.

GASP! Take it back, you vile brute! I love his slow pacing-it makes the terror that much more palpable as we do, inch slowly through texts as the narrator (often in shock or as merely a witness, much like a reporter) inches towards death or insanity! This is a matter of opinion!

Anywho, back on topic, the old craftsmen deserve much more respect than even the most efficient, precise fabrication machines. They made things of comparable quality without any fancy tools or calculators. They had a kind of insight that compensated for that-a subconscious, sublime understanding. Their creations have more soul. This isn't to say that some things aren't better with precise calculations (space ships and cars, trains and airplanes and all that), but some things, especially things created with the sole purpose of becoming a tool itself for creation of art, the handmade ones of the old masters are superior.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

I have a very high level of respect for any craftsman. For example, if somebody wants to go out, find proper wood, and craft their own acoustic guitar, I will have respect for that. I probably would still use my Ovation acoustic-electric over his hand made guitar, but I would still have respect for the work.