Rewarding Positive Behavior in Gaming

happyninja42

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So, this has come up before in various threads, usually revolving the discussion about player toxicity in games. Now, I don't play a lot of multiplayer games, particularly competitive ones, BECAUSE I dislike the toxicity that is often in them. If I have to play with other people in some kind of matched game, I prefer ones like Payday 2 or L4D, where it's Humans vs AI. And while you can still have assholes who will berate you for not playing to their standards, I find it's FAR less common, compared to my stints in other games like Overwatch, and League of Legends, etc. It seems, from my personal observation at least, that the added factor of looking like a fool (in their minds anyway) in front of other people, BECAUSE of the actions of another person, is a huge driving factor in a person acting like an asshole in some online game. It's not the only factor of course, but it seems to be the digital straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back.

And I a lot of games seem to try and implement a form of punishment system for bad behavior, and that's good, but I personally think that the opposite might yield more fruit. I got this idea back when I was playing LoL, and they had implemented the award system for teammates, where you could give them a like, and indicate what it was for (helpful, funny, etc). And the scores were tallied on a regular basis. Now, when I played it, (this might have changed years later, I dunno), but when I played it, there was no reward for this. It was just a way for people to see that you weren't a douchebag. Which is fine, but I think if you provided some kind of incentive, it might actually yield more fruit. The proverbial carrot to go along with the stick.

Provide some kind of actual, tangible benefit, for having a positive community rating.

If you are consistently gaining positive reviews from the people who play with you, at the end of the month, you get some kind of reward. If the game has a currency system, you get a nice little chunk of of it in your game account, to buy some stuff. And I mean in the currency system that normally actually costs real cash. Don't make it huge, but make it enough that someone could get a free skin, or cosmetic, or emote, or whatever, every month. For free. "Thank you for not being an asshole, and doing your part to make this community fun and inviting. Have some free stuff."

Now, I remember, when I first expressed this idea back to the people I played LoL with, that they felt it would be too easy to exploit, and they specifically cited that people could tank your rating, just to be an asshole. Now, I think this is just fundamentally wrong, as evidenced by my own experience with that system. I got a few negative tags from people, sure, but the overwhelming ratings I got, were positive, and that's why you take the average. If only 20 people, out of 2000 people who voted you up that month, gave you negative tags, but everyone else was like "they were cool egg." Then nothing will happen, it will just be the random variance. Maybe they were just not having a good day, maybe YOU weren't having a good day, and annoyed a few people. But if it's an isolated incident....and not a pattern of behavior, then that's all it is...an isolated incident. The majority of people aren't going to go out of their way to be an asshole, so it's not anything you really have to worry about, if you are being a decent human being.

So, yeah I was curious what people thought. If any games have, in the years since I first ran across this rating system in LoL, have actually implemented it, and how well did it work? And if no games have done it, what are some ways that you would like to see this implemented? Aside from my very broad and general "Play Nice, Have a Cookie" example. Like examples of how to implement it in say, MMOs, or FPS arena team games like Overwatch. Games like Fortnite, etc. How would you like to see it play out? Because I do honestly think, that if you actually gave the people who might be inclined to lash out, because there is no reason NOT to, a reason to keep their cool, not spew bile, that it might actually help.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Final Fantasy 14 has a system like this actually. Where when you do a dungeon with random people, at the end a menu pops up to give one player of your choice (not yourself) a commendation. Basically it's like a badge of "hey this player was good, cool, helpful, etc" that attaches to your profile. The game has achievements and rewards for getting these from the players. You can earn titles, achievements, mounts and pets, and I think special status's that will show the community you are awesome.

What's cool about the system is that you cannot give or receive commendations from anyone on your friends list, or if you are grouped with any players before entering the dungeon. The players have to be completely random and theoretically unknown to you to be eligible which makes the system unabusable.

Consequently, as someone who's played WoW for over a decade and knows all about the ninja looters and pieces of shit within that community, I have found the random people in FF14 to be the nicest and most competent players I've ever met in an MMO. I've never seen a group ever have to kick someone or even get on their case for playing badly because the game itself actively encourages players to do their best and be nice about it. As a result it is the least toxic online gaming community i have ever seen.
 

happyninja42

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Final Fantasy 14 has a system like this actually. Where when you do a dungeon with random people, at the end a menu pops up to give one player of your choice (not yourself) a commendation. Basically it's like a badge of "hey this player was good, cool, helpful, etc" that attaches to your profile. The game has achievements and rewards for getting these from the players. You can earn titles, achievements, mounts and pets, and I think special status's that will show the community you are awesome.

What's cool about the system is that you cannot give or receive commendations from anyone on your friends list, or if you are grouped with any players before entering the dungeon. The players have to be completely random and theoretically unknown to you to be eligible which makes the system unabusable.

Consequently, as someone who's played WoW for over a decade and knows all about the ninja looters and pieces of shit within that community, I have found the random people in FF14 to be the nicest and most competent players I've ever met in an MMO. I've never seen a group ever have to kick someone or even get on their case for playing badly because the game itself actively encourages players to do their best and be nice about it. As a result it is the least toxic online gaming community i have ever seen.
Cool, that's exactly the kind of thing I was curious about. Any other games you know of that use a similar system?
 

CriticalGaming

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Cool, that's exactly the kind of thing I was curious about. Any other games you know of that use a similar system?
No, but I don't play much mulitplayer stuff because I find MP games redundant. I play for story and mechanics and that doesn't really happen in MP games. Sorry.
 

Eacaraxe

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Cool, that's exactly the kind of thing I was curious about. Any other games you know of that use a similar system?
It's really not in practice. You can only commend a player until they leave the instance, and a lot of players skip the duty complete cutscene and just leave meaning you can't commend them even if they did a good job. Not to mention most players just commend the tank/healer by rote, and commendations are always equal regardless what DF queue you're in.

So, farming commendations is usually just a matter of spamming the dumbshit-easiest roulettes as tank or healer and being the last to leave the instance. And, it's entirely subject to the whim of other players and their perceptions: you'll get commendations for basically not being AFK sometimes, other times you'll hard carry the whole-ass group and not get a single one.

I've had times where I queued as RDM in an instance where the healer(s) were just absolutely stupid as fuck and I had to do more healing/ressing than they did, while still being competitive on damage, and got yelled at because RDM is DPS. Hell when I went back a few months ago, during one run I did more healing than the healer as dancer. No commendations.

Then I queue as WHM and do nothing but shield/regen the tank while spamming Holy/Dia/Glare, blammo, three comms.

The only thing commendations really do in terms of game play is allow you to get mentor status. That in itself doesn't really do anything other than give you a little icon next to your name, and allow you to join a special roulette that basically counts as every other roulette rolled into one...which means much faster queues and extra max-level currency rewards. As such, mentor status is generally considered to be the biggest joke in FF14, and mentors are generally the biggest and least-informed A-holes who play the game who are the most likely to bail on an instance if they get something they don't like and/or the run turns the least sideways.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Not to mention most players just commend the tank/healer by rote, and commendations are always equal regardless what DF queue you're in.
This is true, but DPS does get commendations though you just have to be vocal in the group. Most groups don't talk much but if you try to chat people up they'll toss you the com as dps.

The only thing commendations really do in terms of game play is allow you to get mentor status. That in itself doesn't really do anything other than give you a little icon next to your name, and allow you to join a special roulette that basically counts as every other roulette rolled into one...which means much faster queues and extra max-level currency rewards. As such, mentor status is generally considered to be the biggest joke in FF14, and mentors are generally the biggest and least-informed A-holes who play the game who are the most likely to bail on an instance if they get something they don't like and/or the run turns the least sideways.
You're experience is vastly different than mine. I've had people in my guild desperate for the mentor status because they like being asked questions and helping people. And I have never seem anyone bail on an instance in over a year of playing, not even when the dungeon is going terribly. It's been the strangest thing because I don't think the community is normal people anymore.

I wish more people would cuss other players out and rage quit dungeons because then I would know for sure I'm playing with real people.

Though I suppose that because console cross play is a thing, many people just can't be bothered dealing with the interface of chatting on a controller so that explains the silence.
 

Agema

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It doesn't matter what you design, someone will break it.

If you create a commendation system, for instance, the same trolls who grief other players will busily abuse commend each other, because they live to annoy other people and break things.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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Dunno if it counts, but I've always liked Battlefield's approach to teamwork where your xp can be earnt just as easily by helping out as a team focused healer coward (hi!) compared to a person obsessing over their K/D ratio.
 

happyninja42

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Dunno if it counts, but I've always liked Battlefield's approach to teamwork where your xp can be earnt just as easily by helping out as a team focused healer coward (hi!) compared to a person obsessing over their K/D ratio.
Well yeah, having all roles able to advance is just good game design, I was more curious about examples of social reinforcement for good behavior, being rewarded, as incentive to prevent toxic trolls.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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Well yeah, having all roles able to advance is just good game design, I was more curious about examples of social reinforcement for good behavior, being rewarded, as incentive to prevent toxic trolls.
Ah, yeah, that is a rarer one. I think Dark Souls has a way of encouraging cooperation (in a typically obscure manner) that helped me out a lot on first playthroughs, but there doesn't seem to be any system to disenchant toxic behaviour other than no voice chat, players just kind of usually gravitate to a form of chivalry for reasons currently unknown to me.
 

Dreiko

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The only sort of multiplayer games I play is fighting games and in those if you're helpful people will just add you to their friend list and ask for advice and games and if you keep doing that your friend list will balloon up to like 200 people from various games and then years will pass and random people will remember you for helping them in that one game some years back when you randomly run into them in a forum or discord of some other game, which let me tell ya, is super rewarding.
 

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This is true, but DPS does get commendations though you just have to be vocal in the group. Most groups don't talk much but if you try to chat people up they'll toss you the com as dps.



You're experience is vastly different than mine. I've had people in my guild desperate for the mentor status because they like being asked questions and helping people. And I have never seem anyone bail on an instance in over a year of playing, not even when the dungeon is going terribly. It's been the strangest thing because I don't think the community is normal people anymore.

I wish more people would cuss other players out and rage quit dungeons because then I would know for sure I'm playing with real people.

Though I suppose that because console cross play is a thing, many people just can't be bothered dealing with the interface of chatting on a controller so that explains the silence.
I've never understood the concept of rage quitting. I have quit a dungeon before in ESO, in fact only 2 days ago. We just didn't have the competence across the group to succeed. But I wasn't anywhere near raging about it
 

Gergar12

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The most toxic game is Call of Duty, the second one is The Division 2.
 

CriticalGaming

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I've never understood the concept of rage quitting. I have quit a dungeon before in ESO, in fact only 2 days ago. We just didn't have the competence across the group to succeed. But I wasn't anywhere near raging about it
TBF, I dunno how many people rage quit versus simply giving up. Rage quitting is usually just the generic term given to it even though the person simply doesn't want to spend time in a group of randoms who clearly dont know which was is up. Which....if fair to be honest.
 

Gordon_4

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TBF, I dunno how many people rage quit versus simply giving up. Rage quitting is usually just the generic term given to it even though the person simply doesn't want to spend time in a group of randoms who clearly dont know which was is up. Which....if fair to be honest.
I always figured rage quitting was those times as a kid when you slammed the SNES controller on the floor after the twentieth loss against Shao Khan in Mortal Kombat 3 and decided it was time to go bike riding.
 
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CriticalGaming

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I always figured rage quitting was those times as a kid when you slammed the SNES controller on the floor after the twentieth loss against Shao Khan in Mortal Kombat 3 and decided it was time to go bike riding.
I am surprised that I didn't throw my snes controllers through the TV on more than one occasion lol. Those old school CRT Tv's were tanks.
 

Specter Von Baren

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All that happens is people start gaming the system. Competition is always going to be cutthroat when the people competing don't know each other, that's how human's are, "Fuck you, got mine." The only way to remove toxicity is to remove the competition.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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I always figured rage quitting was those times as a kid when you slammed the SNES controller on the floor after the twentieth loss against Shao Khan in Mortal Kombat 3 and decided it was time to go bike riding.
One time as a hormonal teenager I rage-body-slammed-my-SNES-on-the-(carpeted)-floor after dying in the SMW Lost Levels and despite a crack in the shell on a corner, the damn thing shrugged it off like a champ.

As an amendment to that and for a slightly obtuse angle on the topic, I’d have to say more than any other game, Demon’s Souls (and it’s successive brethren) tought me emotional restraint. The last time I really got pissed off at failing some area of a game was those damn Cerberus dogs in God of War 3 on Chaos difficulty. Let’s just say I wound up needing a new controller and scaring the cat.

Fast forward to Demon’s Souls (which IIRC if played a demo of before ever hearing about it) and something about its methodical pace and seemingly reveling in the minutia of every action performed, had an effect on me unlike any other game. The early enemies were scrubs of course, but you’d be punished for acting carelessly. Same went for the environments. After failing a few times to tougher enemies, I started noticing the effect that the arch stones (or bonfires, or lanterns, or even Sculptor’s Idol) had.

It would force me to regain my composure to avoid careless, emotional, haste-driven driven mistakes, whereas I’d never have time or reason to cool down merely loading the latest checkpoint or quick save in other games. It’s not to say I’ve never gotten upset over failing in a game again (there are of course still other games with checkpoint systems where the pace and game design also encourages maintaining composure, like MGSV as I’m rediscovering), but my instinctive reaction to those mistakes has been significantly tempered ever since Demon’s Souls.

I’ve also read or watched several instances of how Dark Souls has helped people with depression, but they never really conveyed exactly why that was. However a new article might’ve finally done so, at least to my obtuse mindset -

 
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Eacaraxe

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This is true, but DPS does get commendations though you just have to be vocal in the group. Most groups don't talk much but if you try to chat people up they'll toss you the com as dps.
My experience has been to get comms as DPS you have to do a pretty standout job, be vocal and helpful, and have subpar tanks and healers.

You're experience is vastly different than mine. I've had people in my guild desperate for the mentor status because they like being asked questions and helping people. And I have never seem anyone bail on an instance in over a year of playing, not even when the dungeon is going terribly. It's been the strangest thing because I don't think the community is normal people anymore.

I wish more people would cuss other players out and rage quit dungeons because then I would know for sure I'm playing with real people.

Though I suppose that because console cross play is a thing, many people just can't be bothered dealing with the interface of chatting on a controller so that explains the silence.
I play on PS4, but I connect my USB mouse/keyboard when playing for chat and menu navigation. Best of both worlds.

That said, I play on Aether which is supposed to be the least toxic of the NA data centers but my DF experience(s) have been a slow but steady dripfeed of nonsense. Granted the overall experience has improved overall with the addition of the expert roulette, giving the toxic players a roulette to congregate in without shitting up the other roulettes, but you'll still run into them clearing their dailies. Gilgamesh and Sarg players are the worst, and expert roulette is a shitshow in my experience.

I mean, toxicity is why I quit during 4.x and didn't give the game a second look until a buddy of mine bought me Shadowbringers and a 90-day sub code to play with him. I can still remember the exact point I said, "fuck this", too -- the first time I ran Susano, our tanks were dogshit, wouldn't listen, and wouldn't do mechanics, and I ended up doing the active time events and tanking his final phase. As a freaking white mage.