i'm australian and i know who he is so that's not an excuse. also find and watch the band of brothers series and especially the specail features with all the interviews they did what winters says in the end of that had me in tears because he was awarded multiptle time for his bravery fought in every major campain in europe during ww2 and refused to accept that he was in any way a hero. he was very intelligent and loyal and had and deseverd the respect of all of his menSL33TBL1ND said:
Richard Winters
- Thread starter Toaster Hunter
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Q:
Just... just watch Band of Brothers, you'll understand.
Besides, it's a good series.
EDIT:
Also, Good Night, Sweet Prince.
A:Sober Thal said:
That's why.photog212 said:
Just... just watch Band of Brothers, you'll understand.
Besides, it's a good series.
EDIT:
Also, Good Night, Sweet Prince.
i was told about band of brothers by a friend after telling him that i liked saving private ryan. richard winters (played by damien lewis) is a central charater. that being said i did buy the series so have watched it multiple time as well as the special features, read the book and find military history facinating so admitedly i don't expect everyone to know of him the point being that being australian is not a good excuse for not knowing as most of my friends do
i was told about band of brothers by a friend after telling him that i liked saving private ryan. richard winters (played by damien lewis) is a central charater. that being said i did buy the series so have watched it multiple time as well as the special features, read the book and find military history facinating so admitedly i don't expect everyone to know of him the point being that being australian is not a good excuse for not knowing as most of my friends doSL33TBL1ND said:
But he's not part of our history, so being Australian is a fine excuse, I've never seen him mentioned in a history text book. Secondly, I don't watch much TV, only specific shows.mythtech said:
why does it matter if it's our history or not? thats a very closed minded view, i'm not saying you have to like military history but surely you like japanese history,the middle ages, classical history, the crusades etc. our history is quite brief so being intrested in someone elses history helps view the world in a different way. also not all of our history is in text books ever heard of the battle for milne bay? did you know that the australians (and the rest of the allies) in ww2 fought against the vichy french in syria? i think people need to broaden there horizens to include things that don't affect themSL33TBL1ND said:
It's not my intent to insult you now (I truly mean that), but I actually laughed a bit at that statement.IBlackKiteI said:
If you think World War 2 was stopping a genocidal lunatic (as if the genocides actually meant anything to the rulers of the allied nations) then im sorry to say that you don't have a too good grasp of history.
Also, the U.S forces in the european theatre had barely any effect at all against germany. Most of the war was fought and won by the soviets. The U.S simply came into it all way too late and frankly, the U.S should've stayed the hell out. If it weren't for U.S deployment of troops as well as refusing to leave European soil, that whole cold war period that almost wiped out the entire human race would never have happened.
So quite frankly, Richard Winters should've been posted in the pacific theatre in an ideal world. He and his troops shouldn't have been in Europe to begin with.
Because generally, only Australian history is taught in schools. But there's also something more important here. How does knowing ANY history change my life for the better. Why should I care if a fought b at c? Does it suddenly make any difference at all? No. If something doesn't affect me, why should I know it? It doesn't change anything because it doesn't affect me.mythtech said:
Let's say you tell me that 500 children died in Russia yesterday. Do I care? No. I don't know them, so it doesn't matter in the slightest to me.
Here's something to say to you then.Sober Thal said:
You're being a daft, cranky and argumentative twat.
Major Winters, along with all others that fought in the war, suffered more than some pissy, whiny moron like you will ever even be able to begin to grasp.
Your lack of respect and care for the suffering of generations past is deeply worrying. I don't think you will be, but you should be embarrassed and ashamed in equal measures.
Don't bother quoting me and replying. I care not for anything else you have to say on the subject.
And thats why you should learn about history and you should care because history has shown us time and a again that ignorance like that starts wars and gets people killed and when australia introduces conscription because someone started a war because they were self centred, self serving and uneducated then it will affect youSL33TBL1ND said:
Thats not really what I meant.Housebroken Lunatic said:
What I mean is that wars are now fought because of corrupt leaders and all that crap, this so called international threat is a lie.
Back then many nations united to stop some seriously bad shit, regardless of their leaders true aims.
I do agree about the Cold War thing though, but without the US and without Overlord, the war likely would've gone on a lot longer, not to mention the pacific theatre.
SL33TBL1ND said:
"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it" - Winston Churchill*
*Modified quote, originally from George Santayana.
That's not the real reason either. In fact Germany wouldn't even be in a war against France and Britain if they hadn't declared war on germany first, due to breaking the Versailles treaty (a treaty arbitrarily made by France and Great Britain after World War 1 which left germany/the old Prussian Empire in a state of economic depression) a treaty that should never have been signed in the first place. Germany didn't start world war 1, yet it got the ass end of the aftermath because they lost in the conflict. And as germany under Hitlers regime starts to ignore the treaty due to the bad effect it has on germany as well as starting to reclaim lands that used to belong to the Prussian Empire, France and Britain pounce on them with a declaration of war.IBlackKiteI said:
But the thing is Germany defeats France and pretty much have Britain on the run. Quite simply, France and Great Britan picked a fight with Germany but got beat down. So then you have this asswipe Churchill who pleads for the U.S to come and save him and poor Britain from the big bad germans (i.e the ones that Britain started a fight with in the first place but realized they couldn't finish). The U.S is reluctant at first (which is pretty fucking smart of them. It's just too bad that the isolationist movement got panned by that asshole imperialist Roosevelt in the end), but sends aid and weapons to Britain as well as volunteers.
Naturally the germans see this as an act of aggression and sink several transport ships heading for Britain soil despite the embargo in place by the german fleet.
And then when the Japanese attack Pearl Hrbour, asshat Roosevelt has the needed excuse to send troops into Europe as well (despite the fact that Germany is half across the world away and hasn't fired upon any american military targets other than the ones who are intruding on areas held by the german fleet and directly aiding the British military), when he should have focused his efforts on an enemy that ACTUALLY ATTACKED U.S SOIL.
Also, the fact that you regard germany as some "seriously bad shit" just goes to show that you (among a shitload of people) don't take the aftermath of World War 1 into account. Nazi Germany wouldn't have existed if it weren't for the gross mistreatment of the german society in the aftermath of the first world war. In fact, it's almost ridiculous that we consider WW1 and WW2 two different wars when they are related to eachother on so many levels.
I mean imagine you lived in germany at that time. Not only does France and Britain leave your society in an economic decay and impose restrictions on what you are allowed to do, but the assholes running those countries actually declare war on you for simply doing what needs to be done to fuel your economy again as well as taking back lands that belonged to you just a little over a decade before.
Is it surprising that the germans responded in turn? Hardly.
Overlord happened at a time when German forces were already in retreat across Europe, mainly thanks to the soviets.IBlackKiteI said:
Also, what makes you think that the pacific theatre would've gone on for longer? If that idiot Roosevelt hadn't decide to commit a shitload of forces to the European theatre then they could've been sent to the pacific front instead and help to defeat the japanese a lot faster, and WHO KNOWS actually insuring that they didn't have to cowardly attack the Japanese with nuclear weapons?
Germany was on the run as it was. U.S intervention in Europe was completely redundant and only served to make the aftermath a lot more dangerous for the entire world. The american society should've listened to the isolationists and focused on fighting their actual enemy across the pacific ocean who attacked the U.S directly. And let Britain and France lie in the beds they made on their own...
You own and have watched Band of Brothers, but you dont know who Winters is?Sober Thal said:
I think you're getting confused with Saying Private Ryan mate, he shaky teacher you describe is the main character in that film.
Watching BoB and not knowing about Winters is like watching LotR and not knowing who Gandalf is.
Having said that, Saving Private Ryan and BoB are kinda similar in subject matter, so you can probably be forgiven
At the end of the day, no matter what the reasons for wars were and no matter who the ultimate blame lies with, men like Winters fought to put an end to a regime that was responsible for the deaths of millions of Jews, gypsies, gays, political rivals and other social undesirables, a regime that espoused a policy of racism and violent aggressive nationalism, which I'm sure you'll agree we're all better off without.Housebroken Lunatic said:
For that they deserve at least a modicum of respect surely.
mythtech said:
Here's the thing, I'm nowhere near important enough for any of that to make a difference.Private Custard said: