Right. Building a PC thread.

[Wolfram23]

Funny how the OP disappeared. This thread is taking a life of it's own.

 

[Westaway]

Funny how the OP disappeared. This thread is taking a life of it's own.

I'm here. I made an edit to the OP, too.

 

[loc978]

Went over a few things with my roommate, and if you want to build something a bit faster and more expandable with an FM1 board/processor (which is what AMD is still developing for), he recommends these:
-Proc: AMD A8-3870K Unlocked Llano 3.0GHz Socket FM1 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU (CPU + GPU) with onboard AMD Radeon HD 6550D [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819106001]. The on-chip video here will apparently disable itself in the presence of a dedicated GPU.
$129.99

-Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-A75-UD4H FM1 AMD A75 (Hudson D3) HDMI SATA 6Gb/s [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128515]
$117.99

He also scoffed at my hard drive choice (with good reason). Recommendation:
-HDD: Seagate Constellation ES ST500NM0011 500GB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Enterprise Internal Hard Drive [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148756]. Half the space, a bit more expensive, much better speed... a bit noisy, but also less likely to be dead on arrival. As an enterprise drive, it's designed more for business systems, with access speed and longevity in mind. If you need more storage space later, you can always add drives. No need to worry about space now.
$104.49

Everything else would remain the same. This would improve the build quite a lot at a cost of $72.50.

The APUs use athlon II cores, if you are going to be using a discrete card then the APU is useless as phenom cores are better per clock and have a higher clock speed.

the whole point of that was to make the system more upgradable, "future-proof" as my roommate puts it. They don't make FM1 Phenoms, and they're not developing anything new for AM3/AM3+ boards.

 

[Wolfram23]

The 2500K will still be very productive and if you want responsiveness I think a SSD is what you should be looking at, rather than hyperthreading.

Sounds like good advice. But I'll go for the 2550K, because that's only a little more expensive and if budget cuts are particularly bad, I could be playing on the integrated HD 3000 iGPU until Christmas.

Why not Ivy Bridge? 3570 or 3770 (2500/2700 replacements) with HD4000. Just need a 7x mobo. The CPUs are a little more expensive, but they're worth it if you'll be using integrated for a while.

 

[loc978]

the whole point of that was to make the system more upgradable, "future-proof" as my roommate puts it. They don't make FM1 Phenoms, and they're not developing anything new for AM3/AM3+ boards.

FM1 is going to be replaced by FM2 this year as Trinity will be on it instead.

Sorry to say it but your friend is dead wrong. AM3+ will be used for piledriver and likely steamroller.

Well, I certainly don't want to be the spreader of misinformation. My experience stops at AM3 builds... so I guess I should remake that posted build. Damn thing is a bit of a disaster of compromises, looking back.

...it used to be so easy to piece together a budget system.

*big edit*
Consider my previous wall'o'text [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.378476-Right-Building-a-PC-thread?page=2#14801143] a misinformed rough draft with all of my work written out. Here's a summary final draft:

-Proc: AMD Phenom II X4 955, 3.2Ghz, Socket AM3, quad-core, 95W [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113007]
$109.99
-Faster alternative build: AMD FX-4100 Zambezi 3.6GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 95W Quad-Core [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103996]
$114.99

-Mobo: ASUS M4A88T-V EVO AM3 880G [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131827]
$89.99
-Faster alternative build: GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3 AM3+ 970 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128519]
$109.99

-RAM: Crucial Ballistix 4GB DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148457]
$51.99
-Faster alternative build: G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231476]
$72.99

-Vid card: GIGABYTE GV-N460OC-1GI V3 GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 192-bit GDDR5 [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125412]
$139.99

-Case: COOLER MASTER HAF 912 RC-912-KKN1 Black SECC/ ABS Plastic ATX Mid Tower [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119233]
$69.99

-Power Supply: COOLER MASTER Silent Pro M600 RS-600-AMBA-D3 600W ATX12V Modular [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171036]
$109.99

-HDD: Seagate Constellation ES ST500NM0011 500GB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Enterprise Internal Hard Drive [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148756]
$104.49

-Optical Drive: ASUS 24X DVD Burner [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204].
+$20.99
=$697.42
-Faster alternative build: $743.42

also, if you must:
-OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - OEM [http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986]
+$109.99
=$807.41
-Faster alternative build: $853.41

There's a dead-end AM3 build that will do much more than you ask of it for now, but when it becomes completely outdated, it will need replacing. Considering my gaming PC from 2007 is still running every new AAA game at medium settings, I'd say that won't be for quite awhile.
The faster alternative AM3+ build will last about the same (though with a hair better performance), but be much more upgradable when the time comes, stretching more life out of it.

For mouse, keyboard, speakers and monitor... use what you have left over to buy locally. I've never been to Edmonton or Toronto (the only places I've been in Canada are Vancouver and parts of rural BC), so I don't know what sort of electronics shops you've got there... but I think it's better to test out your input devices and display in person before you commit to 'em.
Honestly, also look into getting your software locally. Not sure if there's a better price on Windows 7 elsewhere, I refuse to run the damn thing (my gaming PC dual-boots Windows XP SP3 and Linux - Kubuntu 11.1)

 

[omega 616]

All these threads about building your own computer are making me want to upgrade mine ... shame the only thing I know about it is hard drive space, quad core and it has a HD 5750 in it so I have no idea where I would start.

Shucks!

I do know that if the OP follows Matthew94's build it will be bad ass and will put mine to so shame!

 

[Westaway]

Well guys, I honestly couldn't have asked for more. Thanks for making this such an awesome thread. I truly appreciate it. I promise I'll upload pictures once I make the thing.

 

[Palfreyfish]

These threads are always good, there's always some form of discussion, and it's always good to know more before I start looking for parts and stuff.

On a related note about coolers & fans etc, is there a Noise : Efficiency ratio for coolers and fans, or are there coolers and fans that are quiet and efficient? Also, has anyone got any knowledge on the Razer Tiamat 7.1, and following on from that, are dedicated sound cards necessary?

 

[Palfreyfish]

These threads are always good, there's always some form of discussion, and it's always good to know more before I start looking for parts and stuff.

On a related note about coolers & fans etc, is there a Noise : Efficiency ratio for coolers and fans, or are there coolers and fans that are quiet and efficient? Also, has anyone got any knowledge on the Razer Tiamat 7.1, and following on from that, are dedicated sound cards necessary?

For fans ball bearing ones will last you a lot longer, I know you didn't ask that but it's good to know.

You can actually get a good balance of efficiency and performance. I know bit-tech gave a good review of the "Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro". I use a Noctua U12P-SE2 and it is quiet even with 2 fans. The 2nd version of the OP's build had a Hyper 212 Evo and Overclock3D say that "in practice the fan is barely audible at low fan speeds, and not much louder at full tat", plus it is a cheap cooler at only about £25.

If you have the cash and want the best of both worlds you could look into water cooling. They give you low noise and performance but at a price.

I don't think a sound card is truly necessary unless you are an audiophile or something like that. Many motherboards have built in 7.1 surround ports but if you want more quality then go for it, just make sure you have the speakers to fully make use of it.

Ball bearings are good I assume for much the same reason they are in longboard wheels? I assume case fans are a requirement, as is a good case, I was contemplating the cosmos two as I quite like the design of it etc, but is there anything anyone can recommend?

Granted if I get the headset I want I won't be able to hear much anyway, but I'd like the ability to watch films and game at night without my fans whirring away and waking up the house.

On to Water Cooling. I want it, but seeing as my build will be the first time I've actually put together a PC properly[footnote]I've installed graphics cards and RAM and the like for friends, but never actually put the whole thing together[/footnote], I'm a tad nervous about WC, main reason being that it's my new electronic baby and I'm putting tubes full of water into it. I know that my fears are unfounded, but still, convince me it's a good idea.

 

[Palfreyfish]

Ball bearings are good I assume for much the same reason they are in longboard wheels? I assume case fans are a requirement, as is a good case, I was contemplating the cosmos two as I quite like the design of it etc, but is there anything anyone can recommend?

Granted if I get the headset I want I won't be able to hear much anyway, but I'd like the ability to watch films and game at night without my fans whirring away and waking up the house.

On to Water Cooling. I want it, but seeing as my build will be the first time I've actually put together a PC properly[footnote]I've installed graphics cards and RAM and the like for friends, but never actually put the whole thing together[/footnote], I'm a tad nervous about WC, main reason being that it's my new electronic baby and I'm putting tubes full of water into it. I know that my fears are unfounded, but still, convince me it's a good idea.

I haven't done WC before but I know you can set it up before you put it into the PC to test for leaks so don't worry about that. As long as you take precautions you should be fine.

On the topic of cases as long as you don't get a cheap POS you should be fine. I wouldn't go beyond £50-60 though it looks like you are willing to spend a lot more than that.

It depends on how much you want to spend and whether you want to WC or not.

EDIT For case fans noctua are quiet and effective though they are expensive. There are other brands too but I have experience with Noctua and can vouch for them.

Well I'm not willing to spend huge amounts of money on a case, but all the nice, sturdy looking ones seem to cost a gajillion dollars, such as the one I mentioned above. Granted, I will be working and not doing much else with the money so I could afford an expensive case, but if something £50 will get the job done, then I can spend more on something like a GPU or motherboard.

About the watercooling, I didn't think of that, so that's basically put all my fears away. Is open-loop WC where you connect and fill the tubes by yourself, meaning that you can have one system to cool the CPU and GPU?

And I'll add noctua to the list of places to look for parts then.

 

[Palfreyfish]

Well I'm not willing to spend huge amounts of money on a case, but all the nice, sturdy looking ones seem to cost a gajillion dollars, such as the one I mentioned above. Granted, I will be working and not doing much else with the money so I could afford an expensive case, but if something £50 will get the job done, then I can spend more on something like a GPU or motherboard.

About the watercooling, I didn't think of that, so that's basically put all my fears away. Is open-loop WC where you connect and fill the tubes by yourself, meaning that you can have one system to cool the CPU and GPU?

And I'll add noctua to the list of places to look for parts then.

Yeah, open loop is where you do it all yourself. From what I have heard closed loop is as good as air most of the time and gets very expensive once it beats it outright.

With open loop EVERYTHING can be water cooled. CPU, CPU, the motherboard and even the freaking RAM, I shit you not.

If you needed to go cheap on a case is surprisingly good value for money and can work with water cooling though if you do an open loop I would pay a bit more for a case.

If you want to be 100% hardcore you could make a mineral oil PC. Yes, this is legit.


I wouldn't do it unless I had tons of cash but it looks awesome.

Holy shit what the fuck that's a thing that works? Wow that's amazing.

Won't do open loop then, well, maybe not until the fifth rebuild in 2030 etc. But wow I really want to try that mineral oil PC. That was just fucking insane.

EDIT, and that case looks nice. Hmm. I need to do some basic maths.

 

[Palfreyfish]

Well I'm not willing to spend huge amounts of money on a case, but all the nice, sturdy looking ones seem to cost a gajillion dollars, such as the one I mentioned above. Granted, I will be working and not doing much else with the money so I could afford an expensive case, but if something £50 will get the job done, then I can spend more on something like a GPU or motherboard.

About the watercooling, I didn't think of that, so that's basically put all my fears away. Is open-loop WC where you connect and fill the tubes by yourself, meaning that you can have one system to cool the CPU and GPU?

And I'll add noctua to the list of places to look for parts then.

Yeah, open loop is where you do it all yourself. From what I have heard closed loop is as good as air most of the time and gets very expensive once it beats it outright.

With open loop EVERYTHING can be water cooled. CPU, CPU, the motherboard and even the freaking RAM, I shit you not.

If you needed to go cheap on a case this one [http://www.ebuyer.com/172779-casecom-6788-all-black-case-km-6788-black] is surprisingly good value for money and can work with water cooling though if you do an open loop I would pay a bit more for a case.

If you want to be 100% hardcore you could make a mineral oil PC. Yes, this is legit.


I wouldn't do it unless I had tons of cash but it looks awesome.

Holy shit what the fuck that's a thing that works? Wow that's amazing.

Won't do open loop then, well, maybe not until the fifth rebuild in 2030 etc. But wow I really want to try that mineral oil PC. That was just fucking insane.

http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

These guys have a guide and sell kits and bits. The oil is not conductive so it can cool everything without shocking any components. They don't put the HDD or DVD drive in as it may wreck the disks but apart from that you can submerge the whole system. It looks awesome.

What put you off open loop? I said you can cool all those components but you can just make a small loop just for the CPU if you want. You just cool what you want.

Me having the potential to accidentally not tighten a connection enough, and then suddenly coolant, coolant everywhere 3 months down the line.

Also, the last question on their FAQ made me chuckle. I might upgrade to open loop if it's really really necessary, but it's currently out of my league.

Also, you're good at recommending monitors or so it seems. All I want is something that'll look good. I currently have a 20" Samsung Syncmaster2043NWX if that means anything, got it off a friend for around £30, with a resolution of 1680x1050 and that's about all I know about it. I'll be keeping this one but I want something bigger and better, and is it viable/a good idea to set up games to use multiple monitors when the monitors are of different sizes/type/resolution etc?

 

[Palfreyfish]

Me having the potential to accidentally not tighten a connection enough, and then suddenly coolant, coolant everywhere 3 months down the line.

Also, the last question on their FAQ made me chuckle. I might upgrade to open loop if it's really really necessary, but it's currently out of my league.

Also, you're good at recommending monitors or so it seems. All I want is something that'll look good. I currently have a 20" Samsung Syncmaster2043NWX if that means anything, got it off a friend for around £30, with a resolution of 1680x1050 and that's about all I know about it. I'll be keeping this one but I want something bigger and better, and is it viable/a good idea to set up games to use multiple monitors when the monitors are of different sizes/type/resolution etc?

That's understandable, I get you. You will still be fine on air cooling anyway.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-eyefinity-technology/how-to/Pages/faqs.aspx
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-surround-technology.html

They can be different sizes if you connect both monitors to a PC. AMD Eyefinity will work just fine. nVidias version needs 3 monitors so it's out of the question.

You could game on both using AMD but it will make all monitors run at the lowest resolution of the 2 so it will look pretty bad on the new monitor so it would be best just to game on 1.

What kind of monitor are you looking at?

Currently no monitor at all, it's the last thing on the list of parts, seeing as I've already got an -alright- one here. Recommendations?

I also have to go for the night, but I'll be back tomorrow at some point. Thanks for the help

 

[Angry_squirrel]

When I built the PC I have now, it was my first build, and I didn't have anyone to help, so I got a prefab with a decent motherboard, and replaced a few parts.

I managed to get a prefab HP for £200 (around $300) and replaced the graphics card with a GTX 560 (£160, which is about $240) and a 650 watt PSU (£60, which is about $90)
So that's a total of approximately $630, plus the price of a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and speakers (I've had these for a while, I cant remember how much they cost me)

I can play Battlefield 3 on mid/high settings, and everything else I've tried on max.

So that's my recommendation if you're worried about fucking up and don't have a friend to help. You'll also be able to do a lot more than I did given your budget.

 

[go-10]

I built mine 2 weeks ago and I'm running Diablo 3, Tera, Battlefield 3, and Skyrim on the highest settings and it runs smooth as hell and the 23 inch monitor gives me 1920x1080 which looks FREAKING awesome, all in all I spent $946 on it so with $1500 I imagine you'll be running a missile base and launching rockets into space right?

btw, play Kerbal Space Program seeing the little guys pummeling to their doom in my monstrosities is AMAZING!!!

 

[Joccaren]

Because this is an IPS monitor.

I'll take "merely" 1080P for some of that IPS goodness.

OT It's nice some approve of my build and I'm glad so many people are helping out the OP> It's a really refreshing thread.

If you're talking about In Plane Switching [Just to be sure] - these monitors have it too, or they say they do and from experience viewing from any angle maintains colour, and touching the screen does not result in a splot of colour or W/E.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Yamakasi-Catleap-Q270-27-LED-2560x1440-WQHD-S-IPS-Widescreen-Monitor-/150788045871?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item231baafc2f
Wouldn't take that as the best offer or the best seller, but its the one I got from a quick Ebay search. As for the reliability of the screen and shipping - my friends and I will vouch for that from a couple of sellers on Ebay, in case you're worried about it coming from Korea.

As I said, limited to 60 Htz without OC, but for a 2560*1440 68.47cm Monitor, its not bad.

 

[Joccaren]

so with $1500 I imagine you'll be running a missile base and launching rockets into space right?

btw, play Kerbal Space Program seeing the little guys pummeling to their doom in my monstrosities is AMAZING!!!

There are actually USB attachments for that. True office warfare.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/warfare/8a0f/
There's also one for I-pods and the like.

But yeah, other than that I'm in about the same boat as you, though I built mine 2 months ago and I got a higher res monitor. Sadly though Noctua just increased their fan prices thanks to Corsair's higher prices. F***. [On the upside I managed to get most of mine before this, and its only a $5 or so price increase. But still...]

 

[Palfreyfish]

Currently no monitor at all, it's the last thing on the list of parts, seeing as I've already got an -alright- one here. Recommendations?

I also have to go for the night, but I'll be back tomorrow at some point. Thanks for the help

No problem

Well, when you see this tomorrow. What kind of budget would you have for the monitor or would you only know post build?

Hmmm, I'd have a rough estimate after the build, but that won't be for some months now, and as I already have a monitor it's not going to be urgent, so can you point me towards something that you would recommend, preferably in the 25-27 inch size area? Thanks

 

[Joccaren]

IPS has more than just viewing angles, like having fucking amazing colour

I don't trust the look of that monitor at all. 2560x1440 S-IPS for a tad over $300? Something seems wrong for them to be able to sell them at that price. For comparison here is the price of the equivalent Dell. [http://www.amazon.com/Dell-UltraSharp-U2711-27-inch-Widescreen/dp/B0039648BO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339662735&sr=8-1] $783.90

I mean, how could they half the price from that? And that is the Amazon US price, the UK price is much higher and so is directly from Dell.

That being said the one review I can see for it is positive and there is a 130 page thread on overclock.net about buying one... Apart from that the monitors are virtually unknown.

I don't know, something doesn't seem right. I mean, why are they an ebay seller only? I don't deny that it could be legitimate but it screams "too good to be true".

Yeah, those were my thoughts too. As I've said, I can verify that at least one seller is legitimate [I'll have to check up on a friend who just bought the first one he found on E-bay before I can verify two], but I know 3 people that have the monitor, and thus far no problems.
This store:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Yamakasi-Catleap-27-LED-2560x1440-WQHD-S-IPS-Widescreen-Monitor-Q270-SE-/140729187593?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item20c41cfd09#ht_16353wt_1164
Has sent across 3 to people I know and they've come through with no problems. In addition, for one they failed to send it within 1 week due to a new operator being in charge of the sale, and after being contacted they offered a $25 price drop as compensation [Credited to Paypal].

I've seen quite a few discussions on OC.net discussing them, if not directly about them. There tends to be a number of people supporting and against the monitors, each with valid points. An extract from one slightly explains the low price:

Variants of these monitors are all ~$400 2560x1440, 27" IPS monitors sold in Korea, not the US. They retail for ~$250 in S. Korea. In other words, they're $700-$1000 monitors for 1/2 the price.

So I'm guessing possibly cheap labour in Korea, as well as lack of anti-glare coating [Which can be either a pro or a con, but I'm going to hazard a guess that it costs more], and the fact that there can be up to five dead pixels [Perfect Pixel versions are generally $60-$100 more expensive, and then there are tempered glass versions and such that add more to the price]. Its also 8 bit native, with 8 bit dithering to 10 bit variants for more cost.
Not sure how its specs match up to the U2711, though its half the price and from what seems to be a very reliable seller [Personal experience + E-bay ratings].

It certainly sounds too good to be true, and there's no way of knowing if something will go wrong for an individual, or what the quality of the screen will be when it arrives, but everyone I know that has bought one, and a majority of online users, have had a very good experience with them, take that as you will.

Edit: Reading more threads on OC.net there seems to be a "Lucky Dip" of sorts for dead pixels. Some noticed some, some didn't. For reference, there are 3,686,400 pixels on screen. Obviously clusters of dead ones will be noticeable, more spread out ones probably will not.
Also some reports of slight backlight bleeding at times.

 

[Joccaren]

In that case I may look out for one of these when I get a new monitor.

I just got this [http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dell-2007FP-Ultrasharp-20-1-Monitor/dp/B0031U1AE6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339675785&sr=8-1] a few weeks ago and it's great. It's actually the S-IPS version (dell runs a panel lottery with some being VA and some being S-IPS, all the ones the seller had were S-IPS) so I'm set for now.

What I love about it is it's 1600x1200 so tons of older games support the resolution unlike 1920x1080. That and it has 1200 vertical pixels, suck it 1080P users

Now that I have used IPS I cannot go back, I don't think it would be worth it. It's an expensive taste though...

Haha nice!
I've always liked the more square monitors better for some reason, no idea why. One of my old monitors was 1280*1024, and it felt a little odd moving to widescreen.

And yeah, when first hearing about IPS I was a bit sceptical about whether it would actually be worth it or not, seeing as I'm always facing straight at my monitor anyway, and everything's always looked fine to me as far as colour is concerned, but once you get IPS... instantly dislike using any other screens now - especially my laptop one [As if it wouldn't be the obvious bad one ]. Since they've got a glossy backing I just sit them on my desk and have that reflect my new screen, rather than trying to get an angle set up on them for viewing and still not having it look as good as the few IPS monitors I've had.

Shame everything that's good is so damn expensive. That's the way of the world though sadly...