Riot/Microsoft/Nexon/Whatever Points

[mike1921]

Why do I feel like I am the only one who complains when companies use microtransaction systems that obfuscate prices and force you to give them money that's not going to any service or product?

Imagine if walmart were to make a "walmart points" system and price all of their products only in walmart points, and 100 walmart point were equal to $1.28. Now, quick, tell me what a 1634 point item is worth in dollars, about. Pricing would become entirely nonintuitive to anyone not carrying around a calculator and people would flip. Why don't they flip when microsoft and riot do exactly that though?

Now imagine if walmart also made it so you need to buy walmart points in multiples of 780 (~$10). If you want to buy a single chocolate cherry and don't have walmart points? $10. Want to buy a 781 point t-shirt with no points? $20 for 1560 points. I imagine a system like that would do more damage to wal mart than any of the major controversies surrounding the store. We don't seem to mind it when riot does it though.

It's beyond ridiculous and I see no reason that it should even be legal, yet it seems no one gives a fuck. Why not? There should have been pure uncontained, never ending outrage the second microsoft points became a thing. It should have been the death of the xbox live store if they didn't change it.

 

[Zagorsek]

Its a bit different when you are buying digital goods compared to daily necessities. Yes, having to buy set amounts of points is annoying but it is setup that way to encourage repeat business. Also, microtransations are largely optional for the player... not necessary, but here you are comparing it to a super market that would regularly sell necessary items.

 

[felbot]

yeah I hate it too, I think the point was to help with currency conversions or something like that but honestly it just makes it worse for the consumer.

 

[Keoul]

Same reason casinos use poker chips and no one which gives a shit about either.

Just throwing that idea out there and it's not exactly something to complain about, sure it's one extra step but for some, it's a way for people to buy the items without a credit card, you know, KIDS? the people actually playing the games you're complaining about? (sans microsoft points of course). These points are often available in pre-paid card form throughout the world, I know for a fact my local supermarket has nexon points, Riot points, and even runsescape subscription! It gives better access to these paid products and services for customers of all ages.

Not to mention they never force you to buy their useless products, no matter how much it seems you're never forced to throw your money at them.

 

[teqrevisited]

I don't like points systems either. I think it's a combination of the above (Forced to buy more than you need) and that, psychologically, it is much easier for someone to spend points than it is to spend real money directly.

It's good that it gives those who can't or don't want to use credit/debit cards an alternative but that's not enough for me to want to use a points system.

 

[mike1921]

It's good that it gives those who can't or don't want to use credit/debit cards an alternative but that's not enough for me to want to use a points system.

Prepaid cards exist and don't have to use arbitrary points systems. Hell ,I could get prepaid visa cards, which are more flexible. And I'm pretty sure steam has cards that are for actual money.

So no, it's not good, it doesn't give anything.

Same reason casinos use poker chips and no one which gives a shit about either.

Just throwing that idea out there and it's not exactly something to complain about, sure it's one extra step but for some, it's a way for people to buy the items without a credit card, you know, KIDS? the people actually playing the games you're complaining about? (sans microsoft points of course). These points are often available in pre-paid card form throughout the world, I know for a fact my local supermarket has nexon points, Riot points, and even runsescape subscription! It gives better access to these paid products and services for customers of all ages.

Not to mention they never force you to buy their useless products, no matter how much it seems you're never forced to throw your money at them.

Poker chips can be traded back in,and make it easier to quickly move money, and if microsoft would let me get back whatever leftover money is my account there wouldn't be that much of an issue.

Buying items without a credit card is irrelevant to the point system. Gift cards exist.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/09/psn-cards-ffg.jpg

A kid could use those things just as easy as a microsoft points card, and prices aren't obscured by it.

No, you're not forced to give them your money, it's just that if you do some of it doesn't go to any service or product. I am letting a multi million dollar corporation hold on to some of my money for me with no benefit to me, and a risk of me never getting ANYTHING for that money, just so I can use other money to buy things from them, when there is absolutely no reason that I can't give them the exact asking amount of whatever they're selling.

Its a bit different when you are buying digital goods compared to daily necessities. Yes, having to buy set amounts of points is annoying but it is setup that way to encourage repeat business. Also, microtransations are largely optional for the player... not necessary, but here you are comparing it to a super market that would regularly sell necessary items.

No, it's really not at all different. You are obscuring prices and putting ridiculous rules on how much money you're allowed to spend.

If it's there for repeat business. That repeat business is in the form of letting me actually get something out of money I've already given them.

Does it matter if I'm comparing it to a super market? The items I mentioned are a T-shirt and a chocolate cherry. Those are generally luxury items (assuming you already have clothing).

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Its a bit different when you are buying digital goods compared to daily necessities. Yes, having to buy set amounts of points is annoying but it is setup that way to encourage repeat business. Also, microtransations are largely optional for the player... not necessary, but here you are comparing it to a super market that would regularly sell necessary items.

Okay, the OP has kind of addressed this, but because this is apparently a common misconception among people who aren't from the US and therefore have never actually seen a Walmart: Walmart is not a supermarket. Oh, most walmarts /contain/ a supermarket, but that's a relatively recent addition. Walmart is more like a super general store than a supermarket, and it carries basically everything. Food? Check. Clothing? Check. Furniture? Check. Electronics? Check. Toys? Check. Car accessories up to and including tires and stereos? Check. Tools? Check. Cleaning supplies? Check. Craft supplies? Check. Pet supplies, including live freaking fish? Check. And the list goes on.

Basically, Walmart carries at least a little bit of every conceivable category of product, less than half of which are actual necessities. And necessity or not, the whole "points" thing really is one of those things that only seems to fly with gamers, like restrictions on whether or not you can re-sell your own property, or telling you after the fact "oh, you don't own that thing you clearly just purchased outright. There's a slip of paper in the box that you can't read until you open it, which you can't do until you purchase it, and it says it's not really your property. It also says that you waive your right to sue us. Thanks for the money, sucker."

 

[Newtonyd]

It's only a good thing in games where you can get the points through methods other than pay real money for them, or if you can trade the points with other people for items. It's very much a pain in the ass otherwise, and I've often reconsidered and refused to buy things when forced to transmute my money into points.

One of their main gimmicks is reducing prices for greater quantities. It makes you think that, even though you only want one object or game for the moment, you'll 'probably' want something else later on, so you may as well save money in the long run. This model is often used in free-to-play games, and I think it's one of the main reasons endgames in those games are usually pretty shoddy, since they have little reason to spend time encouraging you to stay after you've already spent all you were going to spend in the early to midgame.

 

[Jfswift]

I think its kind of pointless with online purchases. They should sell you only as many points as you need. Second life comes close to this arrangement so why can't other venders? They could do this with online cards as well. I know you can buy store gift cards that are programmable so why not Xbox or psn.

 

[mike1921]

It's only a good thing in games where you can get the points through methods other than pay real money for them, or if you can trade the points with other people for items. It's very much a pain in the ass otherwise, and I've often reconsidered and refused to buy things when forced to transmute my money into points.

One of their main gimmicks is reducing prices for greater quantities. It makes you think that, even though you only want one object or game for the moment, you'll 'probably' want something else later on, so you may as well save money in the long run. This model is often used in free-to-play games, and I think it's one of the main reasons endgames in those games are usually pretty shoddy, since they have little reason to spend time encouraging you to stay after you've already spent all you were going to spend in the early to midgame.

Yet again I'm failing to see any benefit to points even in hypothetical "Well if this and that" situations. Points are pretty much store credit and any microtransaction nonsense is going to wreck your immersion anyway so why not just make it clear that you get $2 worth of credit if you do X Y and Z. Maybe I see it if it's the only currency in a game but allowing you to buy a game's main currency is probably a horrible idea to begin with.

 

[Newtonyd]

Yet again I'm failing to see any benefit to points even in hypothetical "Well if this and that" situations. Points are pretty much store credit and any microtransaction nonsense is going to wreck your immersion anyway so why not just make it clear that you get $2 worth of credit if you do X Y and Z. Maybe I see it if it's the only currency in a game but allowing you to buy a game's main currency is probably a horrible idea to begin with.

It's not really hypothetical, plenty of games allow their currency systems to be traded between players for items, making them go beyond store credit. Guild Wars 2, Vindictus, and Spiral Knights, for example. Whether or not the system brings any extra meaning to the game just depends on the game.

Most MMO's, sadly, care very little for immersion, so it probably isn't even considered.

 

[JaceArveduin]

That bit where you're short 30 points is where LotRO stands out, because you can just go and deed those points ingame, all it costs is time.

 

[Something Amyss]

Same reason casinos use poker chips and no one which gives a shit about either.

Chips are the dollar amount they say on the tin, can be exchanged, and can be cashed out.

Unless MSP have changed a lot, there's a pretty noticeable difference.

 

[mike1921]

Yet again I'm failing to see any benefit to points even in hypothetical "Well if this and that" situations. Points are pretty much store credit and any microtransaction nonsense is going to wreck your immersion anyway so why not just make it clear that you get $2 worth of credit if you do X Y and Z. Maybe I see it if it's the only currency in a game but allowing you to buy a game's main currency is probably a horrible idea to begin with.

It's not really hypothetical, plenty of games allow their currency systems to be traded between players for items, making them go beyond store credit. Guild Wars 2, Vindictus, and Spiral Knights, for example. Whether or not the system brings any extra meaning to the game just depends on the game.

Most MMO's, sadly, care very little for immersion, so it probably isn't even considered.

I can't speak for vindictus or spiral knights, but I see no reason GW2 gems can't be shown as real money. It basically is store credit, just store credit you can spend on gold.

I see no real potential for immersion when a guy who goes by the name xxxweedhitlerdabeastxxx can at any point ask you to cyber. Immersing someone in a world is hard enough when all they have to focus on is the world you crafted, when you add random people to the mix who don't give a damn about immersion it becomes pointless.

 

[Newtonyd]

I can't speak for vindictus or spiral knights, but I see no reason GW2 gems can't be shown as real money. It basically is store credit, just store credit you can spend on gold.

I see no real potential for immersion when a guy who goes by the name xxxweedhitlerdabeastxxx can at any point ask you to cyber. Immersing someone in a world is hard enough when all they have to focus on is the world you crafted, when you add random people to the mix who don't give a damn about immersion it becomes pointless.

For Guild Wars 2, I mostly mean the trade systems where you auction your gems for gold, or the other way around. If it the gems weren't there, you'd either have to just use gold for the microtransactions or sell your microtransactions for only real money, leaving no path for people to farm their way into getting the benefits of more character slots / bag space / bank space / etc.

Honestly though, you can make the argument that the gems are useless since you can just trade gold for gems and gems for gold. I think the developers mostly added the gems to avoid accusations of being pay-to-win with gold available for cash. There's also the fact that gems can't be found in the game, so even if you bought yours with gold, there must have been SOMEONE to buy them and supply the market. It makes gems more of a controllable currency than gold, which may have been unstable at release.

 

[Something Amyss]

Most MMO's, sadly, care very little for immersion

Or probably have a better grasp of the word than is tossed around by the gaming community.

 

[Newtonyd]

Or probably have a better grasp of the word than is tossed around by the gaming community.

I don't know what MMO's you've been playing, but most of the ones I've seen are all too happy to spray your screen with giant damage numbers bleeding from every pore. WoW raiding, especially for healers, involves covering your screen with bars to watch and cooldowns to monitor.

Quests are almost never immersive, and they usually aren't even exciting. Many MMOs are trapped in fetch quest mentality. Most recently, Tera was especially guilty of having the most boring quests I've seen in a long time. It doesn't matter how fun or active the combat was (it's really overrated), nothing could keep me grinding away in that game. MMO quests usually aren't even read, and developers know that. Instead of making their quests more interesting, they just make easier ways to mindlessly follow the path each quest dictates.

Going into dungeons involves little to no communication with other players. Even if you didn't get into the group via misc dungeon finder tool, you still have no reason to do anything but run through dungeons without coordination and smash the content (carefully designed so no communication is necessary).

I guess there is immersion. When I play one of these copy & paste MMOs, I certainly feel immersed in that decaying milktoast sensation, so familiar in so many different games. People complain quite a bit about repetitive FPS games, but honestly I think that modern MMOs are much more guilty of this.

 

[cerebreturns]

I think it boils down to that people would buy stuff less if it said by the champion or powerup "5.75$"...or at least that's what the companies think.

As far as if that's true or not...I really don't see how it is :shrugs:

 

[Zhukov]

I find the extra steps it creates to be vaguely irritating, but it's not something I can be bother getting upset about.

 

[mike1921]

Or probably have a better grasp of the word than is tossed around by the gaming community.

I don't know what MMO's you've been playing, but most of the ones I've seen are all too happy to spray your screen with giant damage numbers bleeding from every pore. WoW raiding, especially for healers, involves covering your screen with bars to watch and cooldowns to monitor.

Quests are almost never immersive, and they usually aren't even exciting. Many MMOs are trapped in fetch quest mentality. Most recently, Tera was especially guilty of having the most boring quests I've seen in a long time. It doesn't matter how fun or active the combat was (it's really overrated), nothing could keep me grinding away in that game. MMO quests usually aren't even read, and developers know that. Instead of making their quests more interesting, they just make easier ways to mindlessly follow the path each quest dictates.

Going into dungeons involves little to no communication with other players. Even if you didn't get into the group via misc dungeon finder tool, you still have no reason to do anything but run through dungeons without coordination and smash the content (carefully designed so no communication is necessary).

I guess there is immersion. When I play one of these copy & paste MMOs, I certainly feel immersed in that decaying milktoast sensation, so familiar in so many different games. People complain quite a bit about repetitive FPS games, but honestly I think that modern MMOs are much more guilty of this.

MMO's can not be immersive. Like I said, xxxweedhitler420xxx can ask you to cyber at any point. That's probably the reason amaranth said you don't have grasp over the word 'immersion'.

I can't speak for vindictus or spiral knights, but I see no reason GW2 gems can't be shown as real money. It basically is store credit, just store credit you can spend on gold.

I see no real potential for immersion when a guy who goes by the name xxxweedhitlerdabeastxxx can at any point ask you to cyber. Immersing someone in a world is hard enough when all they have to focus on is the world you crafted, when you add random people to the mix who don't give a damn about immersion it becomes pointless.

For Guild Wars 2, I mostly mean the trade systems where you auction your gems for gold, or the other way around. If it the gems weren't there, you'd either have to just use gold for the microtransactions or sell your microtransactions for only real money, leaving no path for people to farm their way into getting the benefits of more character slots / bag space / bank space / etc.

Honestly though, you can make the argument that the gems are useless since you can just trade gold for gems and gems for gold. I think the developers mostly added the gems to avoid accusations of being pay-to-win with gold available for cash. There's also the fact that gems can't be found in the game, so even if you bought yours with gold, there must have been SOMEONE to buy them and supply the market. It makes gems more of a controllable currency than gold, which may have been unstable at release.

But there's no reason it has to be gems instead of store credit. Does it really make a difference if I"m buying 200 gems or $2 of store credit with my gold(pretend it's 1 cent to 1 gem , I don't want to do math). Like you're not saying anything that requires a points system. You can trade gold for store credit.

Although at least in GW2 it's not like extra gems are useless if you don't have enough to buy anything with them since you can trade them and trade for more of them without needing to pay multiples of $5.