Rogue One - Star Wars Fan Service

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Mahorfeus said:
I really enjoyed it. I'd go so far as to call it a good Star Wars movie, and maybe a decent movie in general.

I guess everyone can call me crazy, but I actually thought that the CGI Tarkin and Leia were fairly convincing. That's one avenue of technology that I hope only gets better as time goes on.

What really bothered me was the horrendous Vader pun. It was even cringier than his big "Noooooooo!" moment from Revenge of the Sith.
Vader can do the occasional bon mot - the lines themselves aren't exactly reinventing the wheel but James Earl Jones' scathingly deadpan delivery makes each one cut as keenly as his lightsaber.

Mind, if we get a Darth Vader anthology movie, which they really should put a rush on before Mr. Jones departs our mortal plane, it has to have this line:

"All I am surrounded by is fear. And dead men". It's in the article that was linked, but it's a damn good line and worth hearing in Vader's voice.
 

wulf3n

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Hawki said:
Rogue One is more original, I'll give it that, but if TFA is hindered by being a rehash of A New Hope, Rogue One is hindered by tying into A New Hope to the point where it can't stand on its own
The crucial difference being that The Force Awakens had no excuses for being hindered and rehashing A New Hope. They had all the freedom in the world (in terms of story continuity) but ended up telling a story we've already been told.

All things considered Rogue One did a decent job overall of not ruining the continuity. There were a few mistakes that didn't mesh with what was described in A New Hope, but there were more things right that I didn't pick up, than things that were wrong.

Callate said:
Oh, and if any Bothans died, I missed it.
That was for the second death star plans referenced in Return of the Jedi.
 

Cold Shiny

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Man, this guy REALLY hated this movie. I wonder what other movies he has given 1.5 stars. Are they anywhere near as bad as he says Rogue One is?

I personally loved Rogue One, not that my opinion matters. Also, I loved TFA so that must make me a total heretic lol.
 

Jadak

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Catnip1024 said:
I generally like these reviews, but I'm hoping this one goes in the category with "The Lego Movie" where you are just plain wrong.

The last film was terrible and completely lacking in imagination, but this one kind of piqued my interest. And I will probably go on saying that for the next 5 years...
He's not particularly wrong about any of the issues he brings up , he's just magnified the overall diminishing effect those issues have on the whole, relative to most people I've heard from.

The last act is great. Loaded with fan service but damn near perfect if it weren't suffering from the earlier bits of the movie. For anyone whose a fan, the spectacle of it alone makes up for the rest.

That said, the rest....

The entire first 1/3 could have been relegated to the traditional text scroll, rather than the choppy mess with useless plot threads trying to string together the foundation for the main plot. Instead, and they are just some random thoughts, devote some of that time to Jyn's solo, outlaw life, something character defining we don't even see in the movie besides her being imprisoned on the outset.

Maybe she meets the asian dudes on her own, maybe her father leaves her with them in the first place (ditch Saw Gerrera entirely). They have some misadventures, shit happens, play the father card somewhere to force meeting up with the rebels. The Rebels learn of Galen, knowing only that he's chief scientist on a weapons project (no secret hologram message, no pilot), and maybe they want to use her as leverage, or bait to get the plans.

Regardless, they still go on the mission to the research facility, Jyn convinces them her father needs rescuing, not killing, but shit goes badly and he sacrifices himself so they can escape, after informing them of the flaw in the death star.


Anyhow, this is just idle speculation on alternatives. Take a few million dollars for writers and I'm sure some better options would come up. Point is, first bit of the movie could be more focused on establishing that some of the core characters actually had a life, develop some of the relationships from the start so the losses feel real when they die.

Also, around the end "We need to connect to the transmission tower so we can send a signal to the rebel ships so they can take down the shield so that we can send a signal from the other transmission tower"

Seriously, wtf? Who wrote this? They should have split that up differently. If the b-team needed something to do besides shooting stuff as a distraction, there's got to be endless other options. Give them a shield generator to destroy, jamming signal to disable, assassinations to carry out, anything else really. Spend more than 5 minutes thinking about it in a comment section and there's probably some great options.
 

HandOfCheese123

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I pretty much agree with the reviewer, but am inclined to be more forgiving. To me, this is simultaneously the worst Star Wars movie I've seen, and one of the better ones (definitely one of the most exciting). Unfortunately, these mixed feelings don't seamlessly follow the length of the movie, but rather represent a clean split in its acts - Acts 1 and 2 were just...awful. I was checking my phone and groaning like I walked into the Office Christmas Party by accident for an hour straight.

They set up the darker tone for a different sort of Star Wars nicely enough, but then the story starts spazzing out, jumping from location to location every two to five minutes, all the while tragically focusing on the misadventure of Jyn Erso, sad backstory stereotype 1/B7, sub-type 8Z and her ungainly, 2-dimensional mob of target audience stand-ins (hey look! It's the stick-wielding Chinese-market-man! You go get 'em, Donnie Yen. And by them, I mean dollars). Say what you will about the prequels, but at least I vaguely remember what their insipid, boring characters were about. Here, apart from K2 to a point, there are no characters, not a-one, just mouth-pieces and stunt doubles. There is no chemistry between any of them (unless you count the powerful, show-stopping Act 2 shoulder bump between Felicity Jones and Diego Luna), nobody is explored in any depth except to affirm that they were f-ed by the Empire in some stupid, evil way, and they all seem to enjoy nothing more than being brooding ciphers that vomit messages and plot-points at us. Speaking of the Empire, our main villain is just a bureaucrat with a gun, with no real powers or ability to thwart our "heroes" other than act like Snidely Whiplash to unarmed secondary characters. He is talked down at by all his peers, is always caught off-guard by Jyn and co. and never gets anything from his office's secret Santa. He is such a mediocre villain that I would've taken the Dark Elf king from Thor 2 over him. All that said, I don't think that the acting is bad (ou contraire, all the actors do their level best), but the script they had to work with would barely qualify as decent fanfiction at times.

And, because I just want to get it out of my system, in no particular order - the obnoxious and misplaced music stings, the truth-serum hentai monster, the Darth Vader choke pun and Jyn's constant Braveheart speeches (the hope speech in the middle made me want to slash my ears off with a butter knife). Like I said, just...awful.

And then, out of nowhere, the movie simply stops sucking. It's almost like an entirely different director came in, fired the entire production crew out of a canon and delivered to us a long, fun, thrilling planetary battle that simply blew me away. The space elements are exciting, with a great sense of scale, the music is epic and appropriate, the ground battle is suitably gritty and, most importantly, the movie starts realizing all of my fantasies regarding the ultimate destiny of our drab, dishwater crew. By the time Darth Vader makes his entrance and starts dominating everybody with his sour cherry glow-stick, I was close to ready to forgive the movie all its flaws.

Close, but not quite. All my friends I saw Rogue One with last night agree that the movie is an unholy mess. Ultimately fun and worth your time (to a point), but if you want to see it, do yourself a favor - take a long bath, wash your hair, catch up on Westworld, have a nice meal and walk slowly to the theater, thus making sure you'll come only for the last 40 minutes of the movie. I promise that you'll have a much better time of it then.

2.5/5 stars
 

MrFalconfly

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Completely 100% disagree.

I think Rogue One was probably one of the best films to ever take place in the Star Wars universe (yes, I think it's better than Empire).

5/5 stars easily.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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So the Hyrule Warriors of Star Wars would it be? Technically an efficient fan service production for those that desire it, but a shallow and transparent distraction for those that do not? (Speaking as a Zelda lover here, with mixed feelings on the matter.)
 

Imre Csete

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Interesting...

I'm not much of a Star Wars fan since I'm older, I've always thought Star Wars refused to grow up with its audience and tackle different things, so I think I'll like this one. Disney getting the rights and churning out yearly movies and with EA handling the game rights, I've all but given up on Star Wars, but this one can be the KotOR 2 of SW movies for me.

I hope.
 

Burnouts3s3

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I 'liked' Rogue One, but I can understand why you wouldn't like it, Marter.

To me, a lot of the reshot material stuck out like a sore thumb and there's a tonal clash between the slow and dark movie Gareth Edwards wants and the light-hearted fan service affair the Disney executives want. I enjoyed it, but I can't help but wonder what it would've been in the hands of someone who was given free reign to take Star Wars in a whole new direction.
 

Fdzzaigl

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I get why people are so polarized about it. Ultimately I liked it, but the film was sort of divided into two distinct halves.

With the first half being a total mess where they tried to pull off a ton of exposition far too quickly for you to start caring about any of the characters.

After which the second half sort of redeemed the film with its focus on a single situation and the sacrifices that those involved were willing to make. It also handled the conclusion of where it was all going very well.

It's a little bit like a reversed Prometheus, though I liked Rogue One a lot more than that film for some reason.

As for computerized Tarkin: that's some serious uncanny valley material.
 

Cowabungaa

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Hmm, my take:

Plus-sides:

- Dope action.
- Not just a re-hash of a different Star Wars movie.
- K2.
- Darth Vader's end scene.

Downsides:

- Forced cameos.
- Inconsistent tonality.
- Loads of cliches/lazy writing.
- Not just lazy but also plain bad writing.
- Very slow and sloppy for the first two acts.
- Shallow characters.

I went there for the action and after being pretty bored for at least the first half, the battles at the end left me satisfied enough. Plenty of facepalm moments in terms of writing though. Ho boy. One and a half star is too harsh though, if you ask me. But defending it as a truly good movie seems pretty much impossible to me. If only it stuck to its strengths and didn't try to shovel in emotional attachment and exposition at such horrible speed.

MrFalconfly said:
Completely 100% disagree.

I think Rogue One was probably one of the best films to ever take place in the Star Wars universe (yes, I think it's better than Empire).

5/5 stars easily.
Oh man, that'll take some explaining alright.
 

chimeracreator

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Cowabungaa said:
Downsides:

- Forced cameos.
- Inconsistent tonality.
- Loads of cliches/lazy writing.
- Not just lazy but also plain bad writing.
- Very slow and sloppy for the first two acts.
- Shallow characters.

I went there for the action and after being pretty bored for at least the first half, the battles at the end left me satisfied enough. Plenty of facepalm moments in terms of writing though. Ho boy. One and a half star is too harsh though, if you ask me. But defending it as a truly good movie seems pretty much impossible to me. If only it stuck to its strengths and didn't try to shovel in emotional attachment and exposition at such horrible speed.

MrFalconfly said:
Completely 100% disagree.

I think Rogue One was probably one of the best films to ever take place in the Star Wars universe (yes, I think it's better than Empire).

5/5 stars easily.
Oh man, that'll take some explaining alright.
I'm not sure I would go that far. I'm going to need to rewatch it a few times to be sure but I think it's close. That said the reasoning being:

No really these are spoilers for the movie don't click if you haven't already seen it.

1. I thought the characterization was more realistic than in the original in many ways. All of the characters felt desperate or despondent because they knew that they couldn't beat the Empire. Every time they fought the empire people that they loved or cared about died. Hell the Rebel spy straight up killed his informant rather than risking him giving information to the Empire.

2. The stakes were more real. In Empire Strikes Back the first major battle scene has Luke's copilot killed and it doesn't affect him in the least. Since he's a pointless extra. In an earlier movie we see Han literally chase a squad of storm troopers down a hall and escape a platoon by running in the other direction. It's funny and light hearted which can be nice, but it makes it impossible to cause the audience to be concerned about the character's safety.

Compare that to the power of the blind guy walking through blaster fire to flip the switch. We all knew he was going to die, but we liked him. He made hilarious jokes, and would die because the Force no longer needed to protect him. He served his purpose and he knew it. In that moment the character knew he would die, and still died happy. That's powerful stuff.

3. It mixed humor with a very serious overall tone to allow me to invest in the characters and then cashed in on it. Empire did this as well when they froze Han, but within two hours Rogue One ended up giving me a droid that I liked almost as much as HK-47 and then made me care when they killed him.

4. The entire final battle from Rogue One was actually described in the first two paragraphs of A New Hope's scrolling text. When I went home and watched it immediately afterwards I was sort of blown away by this.

5. It caused the Death Star to make more sense. A planet destroying weapon is grossly impractical, but showing that it could be used to perform city destroying strikes as well as world destroying ones makes it far more useful.

So yes, unlike the other Star Wars movies Rogue One doesn't leave the audience with a can-do upbeat feeling. However watching A New Hope immediately afterwards actually makes their mission feel important.

That said I still find the lack of scrolling text in the beginning a bit jarring. I also agree that they could have cleaned up the editing in the first twenty minutes or so to make it more cohesive.
 

Pyrian

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chimeracreator said:
That said I still find the lack of scrolling text in the beginning a bit jarring. I also agree that they could have cleaned up the editing in the first twenty minutes or so to make it more cohesive.
They probably could've put a big chunk of the early movie into the scrolling text and overall improved it significantly. Once stuff gets going, it's a lot of fun. I honestly wasn't sure going in that Disney had the guts to kill them all off.
 

Bob_McMillan

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Loved the movie, but I can definitely see how it would piss off someone.

But as a fan who quite literally got every goddamn reference in the movie, I had an amazing time in the theater.

I wonder if studio interference struck again, because as with Suicide Squad, there seems to be a shit ton of footage in the trailers that were not included in the final cut.
 

Bob_McMillan

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Pyrian said:
chimeracreator said:
That said I still find the lack of scrolling text in the beginning a bit jarring. I also agree that they could have cleaned up the editing in the first twenty minutes or so to make it more cohesive.
They probably could've put a big chunk of the early movie into the scrolling text and overall improved it significantly. Once stuff gets going, it's a lot of fun. I honestly wasn't sure going in that Disney had the guts to kill them all off.
Once Cassian Andor pointed out the transmitter dish, I knew those poor bastards were all dead. And yet, I held hope all the way to the end that at least one of them would live.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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I loved it for what it was. It didn't need to be perfect, and yeah it has some parts that needed polishing. But overall, the entire theater I was in for opening night loved it (as far as I could tell) and there was a general sense of people having ad a great time. te characters might have been slightly one-sided with little-to-no development. Really it didn't need to though considering the ending.
It got the story across fairly well, and set up EpIV's beginning in a way I felt worked.
We don't have to agree, I won't tear you down for disliking it, but I will say that a movie I enjoyed thoroughly was worth the price of admission, and genuinely made me smile with no real cringey moments.
And the fanservice easter eggs were nice touches.
Also the CGI inserts for certain characters was pretty good, somehow avoiding (to me) the Uncanny Valley.
 

josemlopes

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Halo Reach did it better, even with a military aproach in storytelling with a more distant view on the characters they had more charisma then the ones on this movie.
 

Vigormortis

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Around these parts I'll probably be flayed alive for saying this, but here goes...

I honestly thought the best part of Rogue One was the seven minute preview of Nolan's Dunkirk war epic.

:/
 

MrFalconfly

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Cowabungaa said:
MrFalconfly said:
Completely 100% disagree.

I think Rogue One was probably one of the best films to ever take place in the Star Wars universe (yes, I think it's better than Empire).

5/5 stars easily.
Oh man, that'll take some explaining alright.
Not really.

All I can say, is that I entered the cinema with the expectation that I wouldn't be seeing a normal Star Wars movie, but rather something like Band of Brothers that took place in the Star Wars universe.

So it's basically going to be idealism fighting against overbearing cynicism. Something I'm feeling right now, with all the overly cynical, socalled "fans", panning Rogue One.

The rest was basically summarised by chimeracreator

EDIT:
Also, when I left the cinema afterwards, I was shaken to the core. I left with the sense that I could never see A New Hope, the same way again, now that I know how much blood those DS Blueprints are soaked in. And I still have that feeling now.
 

i64ever

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When you think of the talent the Escapist used to have...now we're down to unknowns whose only plan for fame is to write reviews that go against everyone else's opinion trying in vain to stir some hype...just sad.