RPG idea

[Azure-Supernova]

And as for addressing both points and any future ones about this matter; you're not being forced into anything. Because as far as you are concerned ingame, you'll always be doing the right thing in the head of your characters. It's a really interesting concept. It takes a look into a genuine portrayl of the descent into insanity. In your mind nothing is changing but the world around you.

I really like the sound of it. If you can somehow surgically remove traces of Tolkien from it it'd be even better!

I meant forced in the context that the player's insanity is self-inflicted rather than in Call of Cthulhu where you'll see something sanity-breaking by accident. Imposing the act of deciding to sacrifice one's sanity is an innovative idea by itself. Also, doing the right thing and insanity are very subjective. It is impossible to give one defining, genuine portrayal of losing one's mind because of how many forms insanity can take; it's an umbrella term.

Thank god somebody still remembers Legacy of Kain. But, Raziel did not want to be a wraith. In fact he hated it as well as the Elder God for making him into one.[/quote]

Ah but being descending into insanity would you be able to pinpoint the source of it? For that matter you wouldn't even know you were going insane? As far as you were concerned the ring was merely putting a lot of power in your hands. If played out right then it wouldn't feel self-inflicted due to the way the world has twisted your mind. Perhaps it could be a big reveal at the very end? And as for insanity being an umbrella term isn't that a good thing? It would just make the experience more flexible.

And I took the whole 'No-one wants to be a wraith' as to mean the player wouldn't want to play as a wratih, my bad.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I thought about removing Tolkien from it but I really couldn't find a really satisfying idea that didn't rip off from the LOTR so blatantly that people would notice. What people don't understand about middle earth is there is plenty more to it than what occurred in LOTR. The book Silmarillion (which unfortunately I have not completely read yet) chronicles the many ages before the LOTR. There is an immense amount of story that most people have never actually been exposed to. This game isn't trying to retread the same setting of LOTR but show the world as it was before the fall of Sauron. I think there's still plenty of interest to be found within the world of Tolkien.

Yeah, I've read the Silmarillion. Didn't care for that either.

I'm just saying that using the LOTR IP is kind of restrictive. The ring-wrath thing itself is the only thing you would really need to rip off of Tolkien to make your idea work, as it is the most interesting, most unique aspect to your RPG idea. And, honestly, when people think of Tolkien, ring-wraiths are generally not at the top of their list.

There are plenty of interesting fantasy worlds that aren't directly based on Tolkien. Some even go so far as to not include Elves or Dwarves. Which, from the sound of your outline, you really wouldn't need - your story is about the rise and fall of a human under terrible circumstances.

Also, I wasn't necessarily thinking that you would be the one to come up with a new universe for your story. You said yourself that you weren't developing this thing yourself - I was thinking that whomever you team up with would be the one to flesh out that aspect.

Anyway, whatever you decide to do with this idea, good luck with it. It's a great concept - I'd love to see the final game, Tolkien or not.

 

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Thank god somebody still remembers Legacy of Kain. But, Raziel did not want to be a wraith. In fact he hated it as well as the Elder God for making him into one.

You make me feel old. Thank god someone remembers the Legend of Kage

 

[Vern5]

Thank god somebody still remembers Legacy of Kain. But, Raziel did not want to be a wraith. In fact he hated it as well as the Elder God for making him into one.

You make me feel old. Thank god someone remembers the Legend of Kage

I remember Intellivision.

 

[gritch]

Pacing would probably be key with such a dangerous system in place. If the player panics and starts using up their sanity left and right to combat threats that aren't actually worth it, then players will start to become confused when they have to spend half of the game listening to and seeing things that aren't really there. Of course, if not enough dangerous moments are put in place, players could go throughout the entire game without knowing what complete loss of sanity (humanity) would be like.

I thought about the pacing actually and the solution I arrived on was to use sort of "insanity thresholds". Basically the character would only be able to become so insane before reaching a certain point in the plot. No matter how many times someone were to spam their ring they wouldn't be seeing imaginary people in till they reached a certain point in the plot.
This actually seems to fit the plot fairly well as well. The ring causes insanity not only through use but also my physically owning it for a long duration of time. Even better given that the ring extends the wearer's life indefinitely the plot itself could span not a year or ever a decade but rather centuries.

I don't really see how it could work. If you want to discourage players from turning "insane" then you are going to have to make insanity annoying for the player, and that is very risky, because they might just think the whole game is (or has gotten) annoying.

And what will you do when the player is actually disciplined and doesn't overuse his power, so he won't become insane? Then you have no gimmick anymore. (Not that that's absolutely necessary, but it's the only thing that can be discussed here aside from ripping off Tolkien.)

Maybe it could work, but I don't see it.

No no you've missed the point. I don't want to discourage insanity and want to encourage it. This isn't suppose to be a Dr. Jekyll Mr. Hyde (the game for the NES) type system. The player's strength is almost exclusively derived from the ring, we'd want to encourage them to use it. It'd be impossible to get through the game without actually using the ring. Overall the moral of the game isn't to resist temptation but rather to show that no one is immune to power's corrupting influence.

Absolutely under no circumstances must this idea be tainted by a moral choice system. Classically, Moral choice systems offer rewards based on how many points the player has achieved on a scale of "morality". If you externalize the rewards of choosing to be or not to be moral, then the impact of those decisions comes down to "how many points of evil/good do I need for this random perk?" Let the moral choice be in the mind of the player. The effects of the player's actions can be reflected upon by the character's descent into insanity and inhumanity so there is no purpose to ruin it with a sliding bar of morality.

Let the entire act of sacrificing the character's humanity be viewed as morally grey and any moral choices be based upon the character's actions. An evil looking creature can still achieve good deeds, if he so wishes.

Thank you. This is precisely the moral system I had in mind. It's important to note that the there is no "saint" or "satan" form of the end game. You're still a ring wraith - good or bad.

Yeah, I've read the Silmarillion. Didn't care for that either.

I'm just saying that using the LOTR IP is kind of restrictive. The ring-wrath thing itself is the only thing you would really need to rip off of Tolkien to make your idea work, as it is the most interesting, most unique aspect to your RPG idea. And, honestly, when people think of Tolkien, ring-wraiths are generally not at the top of their list.

There are plenty of interesting fantasy worlds that aren't directly based on Tolkien. Some even go so far as to not include Elves or Dwarves. Which, from the sound of your outline, you really wouldn't need - your story is about the rise and fall of a human under terrible circumstances.

Also, I wasn't necessarily thinking that you would be the one to come up with a new universe for your story. You said yourself that you weren't developing this thing yourself - I was thinking that whomever you team up with would be the one to flesh out that aspect.

Anyway, whatever you decide to do with this idea, good luck with it. It's a great concept - I'd love to see the final game, Tolkien or not.

I suppose you make a valid point. I guess it wouldn't necessarily be based on Tolkien. I could certainly see the benefits to moving it away from Tolkien. Simply having a ring in a Tolkien-based world immediately tips them off that using that ring probably isn't going to end well. Using a new IP would help maintain the element of surprise.
I guess I'm just a really big fan of Tolkien and the idea of a fully fleshed out game (not some sort of RTS) set before LOTR excites me.

Wow this has been a long post. Thanks for all the input. I'm only sorry that I couldn't get on earlier to comment on some of your wonderful insight.

 

[Vern5]

Time is no matter. The assimilation of good ideas is key. It is good to know that growth came of this discussion. You have learned much from us. Now create as you see fit.

 

[gritch]

If only I could create this. But alas I'm just a college freshman with neither the time, resources, nor skill to even attempt to create this. Well maybe someone with the ability to create such a game will feel inspired to do so. Feel free to steal this idea to create whatever you'd like. Please PLEASE do so.

 

[dogenzakaminion]

Absolutely under no circumstances must this idea be tainted by a moral choice system. Classically, Moral choice systems offer rewards based on how many points the player has achieved on a scale of "morality". If you externalize the rewards of choosing to be or not to be moral, then the impact of those decisions comes down to "how many points of evil/good do I need for this random perk?" Let the moral choice be in the mind of the player. The effects of the player's actions can be reflected upon by the character's descent into insanity and inhumanity so there is no purpose to ruin it with a sliding bar of morality.

Let the entire act of sacrificing the character's humanity be viewed as morally grey and any moral choices be based upon the character's actions. An evil looking creature can still achieve good deeds, if he so wishes.

OH, of course, not having a sliding morality bar with clear "good" or "bad" options was the whole point. Didn't really explain what I had in my head when I said quasi morilty system, but the idea was more about having the player choose to become a more insane character with greater power, or a less powerfull non-corrupt character through gameplay choices, not just through dialogue or fixed events. The destinction between the two is kinda similar to the opposing good or bad morality thingy, not that there should be a slidy bar.

Another cool angle would be how the insanity woul affect choices mae in the game. Maybe the voices in the characters head tells him/her something is good/bad and turns out it isn't.