RPG Irony

[Wonderland]

What do you think of the fact that RPGs don't let you really RP that much. Even in games like Oblivion, you have a few lines to say to the NPCs, not "whatever" you want. MMORPG's are probably the closest we ever got to real RP.

Discuss.

 

[QPCloudy]

We may only have a few lines of dialogue to choose from, but I feel the "be whatever you want to be" aspect of it more than enough for my gaming needs. I never think to myself, "gee, I really wish I could have said it this way".

 

[Stealthygamer]

I don't care how much i can say because i can beat them to death with a FORK!

 

[TheIronRuler]

What do you think of the fact that RPGs don't let you really RP that much. Even in games like Oblivion, you have a few lines to say to the NPCs, not "whatever" you want. MMORPG's are probably the closest we ever got to real RP.

Discuss.

Voice acting. Gamers became bitchy little *****, therefore all of the dialogue in games now must be voiced by an actor. It requires time and money, and therefore it is usually restricted.

 

[ChupathingyX]

That's because it is impossible for a developer to think of every single possible thing that someone could say for every single encounter they have with a person and for every single argument that comes up in a game.

The only thing they can do is create a range that roughly presents a good range of outcomes.

However, I do agree that Oblivion is a very bad example of role-playing in an RPG, but it should never be used as an example of great role-playing in pretty much any field.

 

[Xprimentyl]

I think of late, RPGs have been getting a bad rap. It's normally a genre that developes to outgrow its name and branches off: RPGs became WRPGs and JRPGS and MMORPG, etc. I think the ROLEs RPGs hand the players are the chances to develope a character to approach scripted events in a storyline in decidedly different ways, not necessarily make up your ow version of the world you inhabit. In Oblivion, the end goal is to shut down the gates to Oblivion and stop in the influx of Daedra, the "role" becomes how best to do this: stealth, magic, combat? There are games that allow a certain level of "autonomy," but even this is illusory; conversation trees are ultimatesly convoluted ways of giving you a similar three options: asshole, vanilla or softy?

MMORPGs are the closest we'll get to truly "choose you own adventures," then I'm good on the concept; when I game, I plan to have fun, not cope with immaturity and elitism for months of my life.

 

[Ando85]

I once played a RP server on WoW and I stayed in character at all times. I'd join groups with people and continue to RP. On more than one occasion I've had people say "I don't do that shit, just speak normally". Then I think why the hell are you on a RP server?

 

[Vrach]

What do you think of the fact that RPGs don't let you really RP that much. Even in games like Oblivion, you have a few lines to say to the NPCs, not "whatever" you want. MMORPG's are probably the closest we ever got to real RP.

You're doin' it wrong. RP is about whatever your brain can concoct, it has nothing to do with the game and its gameplay. Oblivion is actually the title I RPd most in, but I RP more or less in any open world title (and some non-open world ones)

 

[Fishyash]

Your thread reminded me on this

http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_role-playing_games/

Warning: Pretentious.

On topic though, I only half agree, the thing is that you basically have to work around your boundraies and not rely on the game too much to roleplay.

I think roleplayers in MMOs are the most hardcore players on those games.

 

[Smooth Operator]

MMO's are best because they lack dialogue?
You know what's even better... imagining the whole game, the possibilities are endless.

As for the actual RPG games, obviously you can never program in an infinite amount of dialogue so you got to do the best to set the story, you can do a fair number of branches with text only but once you do it all with voice actors all those options need to be chopped up to a manageable size.
And then there are casual RPG's that really cut down to the bare minimum and even color code the options for the illiterate, only leaving a slight glimmer of choice so noone could get too confused.

 

[burningdragoon]

This just in, MTV doesn't really play all that much music anymore. And did you hear that Final Fantasy has, get this, a sequel!? That doesn't sound very 'final.'

Less snarky answer: It's just a term. The very fact that it's a program limits what is possible. If you want an absolutely pure role playing game, it's called your imagination.

 

[snake116]

the ability to say what ever you want would be cool but the npc would still be just as annoying and desereve nothing less than death

 

[snake116]

the ability to say what ever you want would be cool but the npc would still be just as annoying and desereve nothing less than death

 

[darth.pixie]

I wouldn't call Oblivion as a starling example of RPG games mostly because the only thing that changes from character to character is the way they approach combat.

Yes, you can think of your character as a lawful and kind person, but hey! Dark Brotherhood quests give you a free immortal horse. And no one ever knows and there are no repercussions and you can still play as lawful, except now you've got a super-mount. I'm not saying we shouldn't have the option or anything but unless you're really gung-ho about role-playing, you'll pretty much go with making a character that in three weeks ends up as a god, archmage, assassin, thief, hero, fighter and champion, just because you can.

As for MMOs, I don't see why they're more RPGish than Oblivion. It's an open world and you're free to wander but it's still not freedom.

 

[2xDouble]

It does let you RP. What it does not do is let you RP yourself. You play the role of a specific character who has a specific mindset and specific abilities. It's more akin to reading a book or acting in a play than an actual thought exercise.

 

[Indignator]

This just in, MTV doesn't really play all that much music anymore. And did you hear that Final Fantasy has, get this, a sequel!? That doesn't sound very 'final.'

Less snarky answer: It's just a term. The very fact that it's a program limits what is possible. If you want an absolutely pure role playing game, it's called your imagination.

Agree. Complaining that RPGs don't let the player role play is like complaining that MTV doesn't play music anymore. RPGs are what they are and the label doesn't define them. The label RPG is a leftover from the early days of video games when early CRPGs were meant to be electronic adaptations of of pen-and-paper RPGs. Presently few, if any, CRPGs are directly influenced by pen-and-paper RPGs, but are influenced much more by previous CRPGs. Essentially the genre has evolved from its roots and clinging to the "role-play" aspect of CRPGs is a fallacy (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy for a similar fallacy).

Therefore I propose that we stop using the term RPG/CRPG and adopt the term VGG-3 (video game genre number 3). This way complaining that you can't role-play in VGG-3s makes as much sense as complaining that you can't role-play in VGG-1s (video game genre number 1, aka FPS) or VGG-6s (video game genre number 6, aka fighting games).

EDIT: As a further example of the arbitrary nature of terms like RPG take a look at other languages. For example in my native Polish an RPG (both pen-and-paper and electronic) is called "gra fabularna" which translates loosely as "plot-driven game" and therefore has nothing to do with role-playing. If you were to translate this discussion into Polish and replaced each instance of "RPG" with "gra fabularna" a Polish reader's reaction would be, "The fuck are they talking about?"

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

The RP comes more from actions and how you make your character than dialogue. I would be impossible to expect the developers to anticipate every single possibility for those. They just want to get on with the story and guide the player.

 

[ResonanceGames]

Dialogue roleplaying?

VTM: Bloodlines does a pretty good job.

Ken Levine has talked about how dialogue trees are actually a pretty bad mechanic for roleplaying, but how the depth and technology that would be needed to make a more organic, open and better system is still really far off -- and might be more or less insoluble on a practical level.

So if you want true roleplaying, stick to pen and paper.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Yeah, it's an irony. But it's because computer AI sucks.

RPG's mostly owe their existence to their pen & paper predecessors (the most famous of which is of course D&D)

But... The computer is essentially being asked to take over the role of game master here.
And while it can do some things really well, one thing computers have a really hard time with (and humans not so much), is improvising.

This is especially true of conversations.

Consider this:

You walk into a tavern, and go up to the barkeeper.

The scenario is designed so that you can ask him about the problems at the castle, order a beer, or ask if there's anything interesting going on in town.

in a computer RPG, that's all you'll ever be able to do, because that's all that was planned for.

In the pen & paper scenario,

That's all the DM/GM planned for. But, since they are quite capable of improvising,

You can ask the barkeep what the weather's like.
Does he know any good shoe shops?
Would he like to marry you?

You could try to cut his head off, and see what happens...
Steal food.
Break a table.
Smash the walls...

Ask if he has any grapes.
Or if he plays golf.

Point is, even though the DM probably didn't plan for most of these (though if the DM had any sense he or she would have thought about at least a few of the more obvious strange things a player might try.), because they are more than capable of making stuff up on the spot, they can find some way of answering any question, or dealing with any situation,
no matter how unexpected, bizarre or depraved the player's actions might be.

For a computer game?
Not so much.
A particularly thorough developer might have considered a stunningly vast array of possible player actions, and created appropriate content for all of it.

But you are still limited entirely to what the developers thought of in advance. You pretty much are incapable of doing anything they didn't expect, because for you to be able to attempt it, they would have had to predict you might try it to begin with.

This could change eventually, but there'd have to be some serious improvements in how a computer can intelligently adapt to unexpected situations.

 

[TheGreatAndPowerfulZOG]

If you want dialogue options, Bioware and Obsidian games are pretty good for that. Bethesda games are not, but they do allow freedom in other areas.