RPG mechanics could be better

[josemlopes]

After playing Fallout 3 and Borderlands I started to feel that some things just werent right, especially in Fallout. For example, I do understand a guy with an armour to need more than 7 bullets to die but a guy with a trenchcoat still live after a rocket to the face? Thats not right.

The guy in the trenchcoat doesnt die with a rocket to the face because he is 5 levels ahead of me but if I was 5 levels ahead of him he would die with just a punch, basicly the level matters a lot in these games (Fallout doesnt have levels for enemies but its easy to see when a guy is ahead of you and when he is not).

This shouldnt work like this (or at least make a game that doesnt).
A game like Fallout could use a diferent style of level up mechanics, for example:

The player (you) starts the game with a very weak character, very poor aim, the gun shakes around a lot and he runs slow, he can barely sprint and sucks at acrobatics, he cant jump and fall safely, he takes time to reload and switch weapons, he gains low amount of health with food, etc (you get the idea).

The enemies that you face are also bad, they use guerrila tactics and so do you, you cant snipe, you cant take 5 headshots in a row, you need to adjust your plans to the characteristics of your character. You learn how to control you gun the more you use it, you sprint further the more you sprint, basicly the way you play the game defines what your character will be like.

Thougher enemies will have those qualities more well trained, you can start to be able to take 5 headshots in a row with a pistol at close range but the more experienced enemies can flank you, move a lot faster and have much more accuracy. Still, even though your character is way weaker then the enemy, if you manage to land a bullet to the skull you will kill him. Your gun does the same damage with this guy as the guerrila guys, the problem is that its harder to hit this one and you need to know how to hit him.

Imagine that Level 1 is what I described earlier and Level 50 is like the Call of Duty characters, fast and accurate.

Armour would do some diference but not enough to make the enemy inviceble, instead of a headshot you would need 3 or 4 if he were a helmet.



Basicly it wouldnt feel like the guy is super strong because the game says so, you would se the diferences and most importantly feel them. It would also vary the gameplay quite a bit and you would have a better sence of progression.

 

[HellspawnCandy]

The developers probably find middle ground in the game so people don't complain too much. S.T.A.L.K.E.R is what you're looking for basically. A couple of shots and you're dead. But from my perspective of Fallout 3 I did get eventually stronger and my weapons were descended from the gods. I don't get the low amount of health with food, unless the character is a baby it doesn't make much sense since he's eaten food for most of his life.

 

[josemlopes]

I don't get the low amount of health with food, unless the character is a baby it doesn't make much sense since he's eaten food for most of his life.

He wouldnt be very good at cooking so most of the food would be messed up, although there could be a diferent aproach on this, there could exist cooking ingredients and more basic stuff like candy bars, cookies, bread, etc. The more basic stuff would have a fixed amount of health, you would learn anything from it thus never changing the value of earned health.

 

[LordOmnit]

So basically you want complete realism where you start off as an average guy/gal off the street that :EDIT:has to:EDIT: run around and shoot a lot until s/he is as good as a highly trained soldier.
In your GAME.

 

[Pearwood]

What you're describing is kind of what an RPG is. If it didn't have those mechanics how would you tell it from any other FPS?

 

[Ghengis John]

Here's an idea... and call me crazy here. Go play call of duty.

I personally hate call of duty. I suck at it and I die 10 times without ever seeing what killed me. If you're trying to call of dutify everything I will personally tar and feather you.

 

[Stammer]

In RPG's with guns, the character shouldn't gain extra damage with guns, but rather accuracy and speed (especially with reloading).

 

[josemlopes]

So basically you want complete realism where you start off as an average guy/gal off the street that :EDIT:has to:EDIT: run around and shoot a lot until s/he is as good as a highly trained soldier.
In your GAME.

Hmmm, no, I didnt say that. What do you do in Fallout 3? You complete the quests right? What do you end up doing to complete the quests? It would basicly be the same, and what I mean is that this would be an alternative, I dont want the typical RPG to go away, I just want to see something that would show your progression in a better way then just "You can kill level 34 guys now"

 

[josemlopes]

Here's an idea... and call me crazy here. Go play call of duty.

I personally hate call of duty. I suck at it and I die 10 times without ever seeing what killed me. If you're trying to call of dutify everything I will personally tar and feather you.

Just because I mentioned Call of Duty it doesnt mean that entire game would be Call of Duty with explosions and ninjas that insta kill with knifes, it would be STALKER at best. The thing is that the characters from Call of Duty are all like perfect soldiers with almost zero recoil and the speed of an olimpic champion. I just used Call of Duty for you guys to understand the evolution of the character.

Also, like I said on the other comments, I dont want the typical RPG to go away, I just want to see some games try diferent aproaches to the genre.

 

[somonels]

For the most realistic experience, join the army.

These are not RPG mechanics, these are scaling mechanics.
BL used damage scaling according to levels, forcing you to stick to your level ranges. This is a very common practice where the developer does not have to spend massive amounts of time balancing every enemy.
Helmets do not protect from high-powered rifles and shots to the face or neck, both are very lethal.

 

[LordOmnit]

Hmmm, no, I didnt say that. What do you do in Fallout 3? You complete the quests right? What do you end up doing to complete the quests? It would basicly be the same, and what I mean is that this would be an alternative, I dont want the typical RPG to go away, I just want to see something that would show your progression in a better way then just "You can kill level 34 guys now"

Well, connecting level and damage of things not related to character strength or skill (except accuracy) is silly, however, making the characters start off as clumsy/slow and unable to aim well would require them to have a reason to be that way and then do those things they aren't good at. Plus the general idea behind games that involve more than just interpersonal conflict is that the main character(s) is(are) exceptional in some way so as to explain why they would survive such things that nobody else should.

 

[Spectrum_Prez]

What's the name of the popular FO3 mod that makes headshots and damage in general much more lethal? Just get that OP, and see how long you last. The vids I've seen of it are pretty brutal, you need a good rig to make sure you're getting butter smooth graphics at all times.

I think it may have been called Fallout Wanderers Edition (FWE). But don't take my word, can somebody verify?

 

[drummond13]

Um, congratulations, you just invented the First Person Shooter.

Everything you described as wrong with the mechanics of RPGs is what MAKES them RPGs. If you don't like that style of game, that's totally understandable. Don't play them.

But the concept of "enemies get better at fighting you as you go through the game" isn't a new one. That's what many first person shooters have done in the past. They cease to be RPGs at that point.

 

[Zaik]

Games are leaning too hard on realism as it is, I wish they'd go back away from it.

I don't care if rockets blow people up irl, it's a game.

 

[gamer_parent]

rule of fun trumps realism, every single time.

if you want a gritty and realistic combat in your RPGs, there are quite a number of tabletop games that actually do what you're looking for.