Sam Raimi (Sort of) Accepts Blame for Spider-Man 3

[Neurotic Void Melody]

The creation scene of sandman was brilliant, i cant forget how moving it was. Though the movie was a tad messy, it still seems better than the unasked for reboot.
The dance scene got hate? Was it a fan thing that caused abrasions? I just saw it as intentionally humourous. Meh well. At least the co-operate strings idea makes sense.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Sorry multi post!

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Sorry...i wish there was a delete option for these posts

 

[Sanunes]

The creation scene of sandman was brilliant, i cant forget how moving it was. Though the movie was a tad messy, it still seems better than the unasked for reboot.
The dance scene got hate? Was it a fan thing that caused abrasions? I just saw it as intentionally humourous. Meh well. At least the co-operate strings idea makes sense.

Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of the idea behind rebooting it, just replace the people that need to be or wanted to be replaced and continue on, aside from Casino Royale which happened 44 years after Dr. No they don't do a full on reboot of James Bond when they have a new set of actors. I think the other reason for the "reboot" with Bond is that they were also basing the movie off the first James Bond book so they might not have even done that much of a reboot if they hadn't been basing it off the book.

 

[Lieju]

I have a feeling since the dance sequence was so horribad, that Raimi had nothing to do with it except being forced into directing it. Its not his style...

I dunnno, I kinda get what MovieBob says when he goes (this version of) peter is a Dork, and that's what a Dork like him thinks is cool and badass. Still horrible, but meant to be horrible.

Yeah, I always liked that scene for that.
I think a lot of nerds identify with Peter and are those kinds of dorks and it hit a bit too close to home.

 

[Toadfish1]

So Raimis version of accepting the blame involves blaming everyone but himself and saying "I couldn't work with these conditions"? Christ, what an asshole. No wonder ASM was better than all of his movies.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

3 things killed SM3 for me.

-Trying to do too many villains. The first two movies worked great just focusing on one villain, why would you screw that up and try and do two (hell, 3 if you include Harry Osborne)?

-Venom (specifically Eddie Brock Venom) has always been my favorite comic book character, so for them to take Eddie Brock, a guy who's 6'4 and built like an NFL Linebacker, and have him be played by Topher Frickin' Grace, a guy who looks like he weighs 135 pounds wearing concrete shoes, was just utterly bizarre (and yes I know there's "Ultimate Marvel" and all these other variations, but I like the original Venom). It also killed it because part of the whole Spiderman vs. Venom dynamic is that Eddie and Peter are total opposites: Eddie is a jock, Peter is a nerd, Eddie doesn't take shit from anyone, Peter is a doormat, Eddie is highly emotional, Peter represses his emotions, etc.

-Goes without saying, but the sequence of "cool Peter Parker" under the influence of the symbiote is just embarrassing. It's one of those scenes where you almost feel embarrassed watching the movie. Why couldn't they just focus on him becoming more violent and be done with it? I get the whole "well he's a nerd so he thinks it's cool", but most nerds I've met think being a bad-ass is far cooler than dancing around in the street, and thus logically, it should focus more on Peter abusing his powers by pushing others around.

 

[Elijah Newton]

Jarringly, this movie also had arguably the most beautiful scene in any superhero movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpaecszRRG0

Seconded. Man, so seconded. I've never heard the full story on what happened behind the scenes with that flick, but I felt like I could see the best of what Raimi does in that character, bafflingly obfuscated by drek. You've got a compelling villian with heaps of vintage monster movie style (Sandman) much like Doc Ock, and then the weirdly out of place Venom plot. (which I don't necessarily hate on in general, it just didn't fit with the movie). And the weirdly fast discard of Franco's character, who I figured was in for the duration.

*shrug* Pity. I called it for a franchise killer when I saw it but wish I knew more particulars.

 

[Littaly]

I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other about what happened with Spider-Man 3, but reading the article it sounds like Raimi is trying his hardest to get all the good bits of accepting blame while still blaming it on the producers

"Yeah, I didn't love the characters, and a director should always love his characters so it's all my fault. Of course the reason I didn't love the characters is because they were forced on me. So the whole mess is my fault, but it's their fault that it's my fault.

We went into the movie trying to raise the bar, which is what doomed us. And as a part of "we" in this context, I take full responsibility for that. Of course, as an individual I wasn't trying to raise the bar, I actually tried to tell them that it was a bad idea, I always did and I still do. But they won out in the end, and so I became part of the group that collectively has to take responsibility for the mess. Even though I shouldn't".

Come on! Either own up or shut up. You're not allowed to accept responsibility and then blame it on someone else in the very next sentence

 

[tzimize]

I do give him credit for saying he "didn't believe in all the characters", but at the same time if those characters are forced upon him by Sony such as Venom why should he believe in them in the first place. I also walked out of the two ASM movies feeling the same way that I did with Spider-Man 3 where it really felt like someone was constantly changing the premise and direction of the movie during filming.

In addition to the fact that they were complete garbage I guess? Its been a long time since I've seen something so stupid as AS2. The sequence when Electro is "born" and his "nerdy teeth" clicks into "cool guy teeth" is a scene that will stay with me for the rest of my life as something of the dumbest, most offensive idiocy I have ever seen. Elektro and his counterpart is so ridiculously overplayed I REFUSE to believe anything but a 5 year old will get enjoyment out of it.

So Raimis version of accepting the blame involves blaming everyone but himself and saying "I couldn't work with these conditions"? Christ, what an asshole. No wonder ASM was better than all of his movies.

Oh you have just GOT to be joking...

 

[Sanunes]

I do give him credit for saying he "didn't believe in all the characters", but at the same time if those characters are forced upon him by Sony such as Venom why should he believe in them in the first place. I also walked out of the two ASM movies feeling the same way that I did with Spider-Man 3 where it really felt like someone was constantly changing the premise and direction of the movie during filming.

In addition to the fact that they were complete garbage I guess? Its been a long time since I've seen something so stupid as AS2. The sequence when Electro is "born" and his "nerdy teeth" clicks into "cool guy teeth" is a scene that will stay with me for the rest of my life as something of the dumbest, most offensive idiocy I have ever seen. Elektro and his counterpart is so ridiculously overplayed I REFUSE to believe anything but a 5 year old will get enjoyment out of it.

That is what I mean, there was so much to the movie of "that would be cool to see" it lost any direction it might have had, which either means they had a poor director or someone who didn't know what they were doing were forcing the director to make bad decisions because they couldn't say "no".

I just looked up Marc Webb and it could be just that they hired someone with a "music video background" hoping they could make a movie too.

 

[xynnia]

-Goes without saying, but the sequence of "cool Peter Parker" under the influence of the symbiote is just embarrassing. It's one of those scenes where you almost feel embarrassed watching the movie. Why couldn't they just focus on him becoming more violent and be done with it? I get the whole "well he's a nerd so he thinks it's cool", but most nerds I've met think being a bad-ass is far cooler than dancing around in the street, and thus logically, it should focus more on Peter abusing his powers by pushing others around.

I'll say - I had my face in my hands during that sequence, I seriously couldn't watch it.

"I should've just stuck with the characters and the relationships and progressed them to the next step and not tried to top the bar."

If he'd done that, the plot might have turned out more like this [https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2572049/1/It-Has-Always-Been-You] fan-written [https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2595154/1/Enquiring-Minds] trilogy [https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2656165/1/Best-Wishes], which I always thought could have been the plot for Spiderman 3. I mean okay, it's not exactly a Hollywood blockbuster as is, and would need to introduce some more new material and characters to stand on its own. But it ties up all the threads from the previous two films, resolves Harry's subplot, and makes ingenious use of the train characters from SM2. Still miles better than what we actually got.

 

[Grabehn]

While I still don't care about the dance scene, the Sandman was one of the best things in Superhero movies I've seen to date, I really liked the character and the effects were super cool.

Venom though? You could feel how forced that one was, and it didn't help that they picked Forman to play the role, although chucking in the blonde girl didn't help either.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

Jarringly, this movie also had arguably the most beautiful scene in any superhero movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpaecszRRG0

I saw that, it set me up for great things. prob why I was so upset at the final result.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

I liked Venom as a symbiote and as a concept in the movie. Not the character himself. Granted, they definitely could have done Evil Peter Parker with more style and subtlety indeed but I still liked what the symbiote did. What it gave and took in return.

^ That is what we should have got. Not this.