San Francisco considering banning circumcision

[gphjr14]

Ew, uncut shlongs look like a species of worm that would live 2 miles under the surface of the earth.

As messed up as that sounds I've heard female co-workers say that, and they're not even religious.

Should be up to the parents their kid, they're responsibility, their money.

I really don't care either way its SFC.

 

[Radoh]

Ew, uncut shlongs look like a species of worm that would live 2 miles under the surface of the earth.

As messed up as that sounds I've heard female co-workers say that, and they're not even religious.

Should be up to the parents their kid, they're responsibility, their money.

I really don't care either way its SFC.

While that may be true for all three of those items, it isn't their genitalia being mutilated, and that's what is being permanently altered by this.

 

[Qtoy]

I'm circumcised. I don't see why not, not entirely sure why, but I don't remember any of the pain and I didn't know circumcision from castration until I was twelve. I don't give a care either way.

 

[skywalkerlion]

But honestly this thread is going to boil down to uncircumcised and circumcised people's own personal prejudice.

Pretty much. The whole thing IS just preference.

 

[gphjr14]

Ew, uncut shlongs look like a species of worm that would live 2 miles under the surface of the earth.

As messed up as that sounds I've heard female co-workers say that, and they're not even religious.

Should be up to the parents their kid, they're responsibility, their money.

I really don't care either way its SFC.

While that may be true for all three of those items, it isn't their genitalia being mutilated, and that's what is being permanently altered by this.

Mutilate
mu·ti·late
?verb (used with object), -lat·ed, -lat·ing.
1.
to injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts: Vandals mutilated the painting.
2.
to deprive (a person or animal) of a limb or other essential part.

Its an outdated practice and with time and education it'll fade but please turn down the dramatic exaggerations a notch, it hurts your argument.

 

[Radoh]

Mutilate
mu·ti·late
?verb (used with object), -lat·ed, -lat·ing.
1.
to injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts: Vandals mutilated the painting.
2.
to deprive (a person or animal) of a limb or other essential part.

Its an outdated practice and with time and education it'll fade but please turn down the dramatic exaggerations a notch, it hurts your argument.

Are you suggesting then that Circumcision is not disfiguring genitalia permanently/ causing irreparable damage? I'm not being dramatic, it is the correct use of the word so I used it as such.

 

[Chamale]

Ew, uncut shlongs look like a species of worm that would live 2 miles under the surface of the earth.

As messed up as that sounds I've heard female co-workers say that, and they're not even religious.

I've heard men complain about small breasts. Should we legally mandate breast implants? It's a surgery with possibly harmful consequences either way.

Should be up to the parents their kid, they're responsibility, their money.

I really don't care either way its SFC.[/quote]

It's not the parents' penis. Let the boy reach age 18 and then decide.

My thoughts on this matter, and other such cases where religions get a free pass: Fuck special protections for religion.

Performing irreversible cosmetic surgery on a newborn should be illegal, no matter what your religion is. We don't let Aztecs slaughter virgins and we don't let Old Testament Christians sell their daughters into slavery. We shouldn't allow any religious believers to get away with things that should be criminal acts.

Remember when religious advocates managed to restrict the marriage rights of consenting adults in California? Now, the people who want special protection for religion are arguing that people should continue to have the right to irreversibly cut off part of a baby's penis.

 

[Grand_Arcana]

Good. I was circumcised as a newborn before I could speak on the matter. No one should be subject to a medically and (mostly) cosmetically negligible procedure like that.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I'm circumcised. I don't see why not, not entirely sure why, but I don't remember any of the pain and I didn't know circumcision from castration until I was twelve. I don't give a care either way.

Agreed. And I don't like any proposal that takes away the rights of parents and gives them to the state.

 

[Jumplion]

Mutilate
mu·ti·late
?verb (used with object), -lat·ed, -lat·ing.
1.
to injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts: Vandals mutilated the painting.
2.
to deprive (a person or animal) of a limb or other essential part.

Its an outdated practice and with time and education it'll fade but please turn down the dramatic exaggerations a notch, it hurts your argument.

That's debatable, as you can still use your Proud Johnny after circumcision, and it can be reversed with certain techniques. (EDIT: Debatable, according to a fellow poster, linky [http://norm.org/lost.html])

But anyway, I find the circumcision argument interesting. On one hand, you could say "It should be with the consent of the patient", yet I also think "the parents decide what is best for their child" fits into it as well. The positive and negative effects of circumcision are debatable aswell, and it's not like the parents are doing it out of malice, only out of wanting what's best for their child (again, it's debatable if it is or not).

Some people say that it's an extremely painful procedure, yet others say that it provides no harm to the child and it's about as painful as getting your ears pierced (which apparently isn't that painful) or not very sensitive. I'd imagine that the child would barely remember anything anyway, and again, it's not like the parents are actively trying to hurt their child.

My thoughts; if a grown adult wants to do it, go for it. I'm a bit iffy on if the parents can decide on it for their child, though I do think calling it "barbaric" or "mutilation" is just for sensational effect. Banning the practice would be a tricky thing to do.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Hmmm, seems San Fransico is trying to get rid of all the things that they don't agree with. Here I thought Liberalism's root word was "Liberty".

 

[gphjr14]

Are you suggesting then that Circumcision is not disfiguring genitalia permanently/ causing irreparable damage? I'm not being dramatic, it is the correct use of the word so I used it as such.

No, but its not like when you pull it out people gasp and lose their lunch. You mutilate something it makes it indistinguishable from its original form.

Ew, uncut shlongs look like a species of worm that would live 2 miles under the surface of the earth.

As messed up as that sounds I've heard female co-workers say that, and they're not even religious.

I've heard men complain about small breasts. Should we legally mandate breast implants? It's a surgery with possibly harmful consequences either way.

Should be up to the parents their kid, they're responsibility, their money.

I really don't care either way its SFC.

It's not the parents' penis. Let the boy reach age 18 and then decide.

My thoughts on this matter, and other such cases where religions get a free pass: Fuck special protections for religion.

Performing irreversible cosmetic surgery on a newborn should be illegal, no matter what your religion is. We don't let Aztecs slaughter virgins and we don't let Old Testament Christians sell their daughters into slavery. We shouldn't allow any religious believers to get away with things that should be criminal acts.

Remember when religious advocates managed to restrict the marriage rights of consenting adults in California? Now, the people who want special protection for religion are arguing that people should continue to have the right to irreversibly cut off part of a baby's penis.[/quote]

Ok you're just arguing against religious practices which I really don't care about either way.
You can come up with a better straw man than that since its children not adult women. Breast Implants? Get outta here.

 

[Jumplion]

Are you suggesting then that Circumcision is not disfiguring genitalia permanently/ causing irreparable damage? I'm not being dramatic, it is the correct use of the word so I used it as such.

Or maybe you were the person I should have quoted....d'oh. Whatever, read my above post for my opinion if you'd like.

 

[Lilani]

Since when does a city have the jurisdiction to ban circumcision? If anything, that should be a statewide issue.

I'm with you on this one. Banning it in one city is just stupid, all they have to do is take a little road-trip and problem solved.

 

[ryai458]

I don't see the issue if it is done on a baby who won't remember it, and it has health benefits.

 

[Chamale]

I'm circumcised. I don't see why not, not entirely sure why, but I don't remember any of the pain and I didn't know circumcision from castration until I was twelve. I don't give a care either way.

Agreed. And I don't like any proposal that takes away the rights of parents and gives them to the state.

What about the rights of children?

Exodus 21:17: And he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.

Would you support the rights of parents to kill their disobedient children? The State has a duty to protect citizens from harm, including newborn children. Religious or not, parents should not be able to make decisions relating to what part of the baby's penis is removed.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I'm circumcised. I don't see why not, not entirely sure why, but I don't remember any of the pain and I didn't know circumcision from castration until I was twelve. I don't give a care either way.

Agreed. And I don't like any proposal that takes away the rights of parents and gives them to the state.

What about the rights of children?

The State has a duty to protect citizens from harm, including newborn children. Religious or not, parents should not be able to make decisions relating to what part of the baby's penis is removed.

Are we to say that parents have no say in the matter? What makes the state the moral authority?

 

[gphjr14]

Mutilate
mu·ti·late
?verb (used with object), -lat·ed, -lat·ing.
1.
to injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts: Vandals mutilated the painting.
2.
to deprive (a person or animal) of a limb or other essential part.

Its an outdated practice and with time and education it'll fade but please turn down the dramatic exaggerations a notch, it hurts your argument.

That's debatable, as you can still use your Proud Johnny after circumcision, and it can be reversed with certain techniques.

Pretty much the point I was trying to make. You split it down the middle or take a chunk out of it, thats mutilation. You sure as hell don't have as much feeling as you would otherwise but you're not doomed to a life of numbness.

 

[Eldarion]

Great... more ignorant fascists trying to force their own believes on everyone else... Oh San Francisco, you make me ashamed to be in the same country as you...

Oh great, another religious nutjob trying to force their beliefs on their kids. I can use hyperbole too, pack that shit in. If the child wants to do it out of religious devotion or something, let them decide themselves.

Why should the choice not be made be the person at age 18?


An extreme example but, this is in the same ballpark as not allowing parents who believe solely in faith medication to get away with never bringing their kids to the hospital. Or is making sure kids get proper healthcare also "fascist"? Johnny has been sick for days, but forcing his parents to take him to the hospital would be infringing on their right to let him die slowly.

Now the two aren't exactly the same thing, point is there is a place for the right to religious expression to stop and for common sense to take its place.

Are we to say that parents have no say in the matter? What makes the state the moral authority?

Stop with the "the state is bullying me" crap. It makes your side look silly. The state isn't making the choice if this law gets passed, the child is. It should be his choice in the first place.