Sandbox gaming models: Discussion.

[Altercator]

Just thought I might discuss how to make an open-ended, sandbox game, and what can we learn from when making future games.
The (admittedly bad) drawings are made to emphasize the types of sandbox games made.

Megaman model
Linear levels that can be selected & played in any order by player.

Battlefield model
Sandbox map with Objective points
Player must complete certain objectives peppered across map in any manner he wants to gain control of map.
Map is THE Level; and progression here from level to level is like traditional games, ala Super Mario Bros or Sonic the Hedgehog.

Addendum:
Can be used in as a Megaman Model, where maps can be selected in any order.
Example of games:
All Real Time Strategy games from Command & Conquer to Starcraft to Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War; Battefield series of games; Frontlines: Fuel of War.


GTA model
Overworld divided into sections. Linked by "Bridges"
Player must complete main quests of each map to move on to another section. Each map is closed off from each other until player finished the quests.

Example of games:
Mercenaries, Just Cause

Diablo 2/ Dungeon Siege model
Hub to hub or town to town.
Overworld is a series of maps linked together by "hubs" or "towns." Can be peppered with Dungeons like Zelda.

Example of games:
Dungeon Siege series, Hellgate: London

Zelda model
Overworld with "dungeons"
Overworld acts as hub for player to explore before finding and entering dungeons. Towns or Hubs are placed into certain sections of overworld

Example of games:
Zelda, Darksiders

Oblivion/World of Warcraft model
Total overworld. Player can explore the overworld to his digression, anchored by main quests, along with a variety of side quests. Overworld would be strategically "littered" with dungeons, towns etc.
Example of games:
Most MMORPGs from WoW onwards; Elder Scroll series.

Questions:
If you want to make an open-ended sandbox gaming, which of the models mentioned do you wish to adopt?

Do you have your own idea what kind of sandbox model you want to make? Care to share that with us?

 

[fix-the-spade]

Of those, the Battlefield and Zelda model are the ones I would use, but that merely reflects the games I like to play.

You did however, miss the Gary's Mod model.
Where player's are dumped into an essentially blank level and given the tools to make, alter and generate content at will.
Which is what I would define as a true Sandbox game. It's also the one with the most potential, but conversely the least accessibility as the tools need to be learned.
Halo's Forge system follows this model to an extent, but GMod is the only one I'm aware of that gives complete freedom to the user.

 

[GothmogII]

Hmm...I like WoW's model, but, it's very difficult to make something that size, while at the same time keeping in all of the little detail.
For Zelda, and games like GTA or Crackdown, I've always felt boxed in, the same indeed can be said about Oblivion or Morrowind, it just seems that in an attempt to create a wide open playground, that's all it ends up being, a playground. And, that itself is no bad thing, but I haven't found such games to be of any particular depth to them.

One idea I'd like to see is, well I don't have a scanner so I'll do it like this:

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Basically, what this is, is a corridoor. With an infinite amount of doors. The corridor of the multiverse as it were. Think, like planar portals in Planescape Torment etc. I can't recall the name of it, but Raymond E. Feist uses this concept in his books. Anyway, each of these doors leads to a different world. My thought on this is, this could be great for an MMO, in that, each 'world' could be entirely modular. You could have varying difficulties, goals and plots relating to each. And since there's only the corridor itself over-arching all this, and not as in WoW or Everquest just one big world, the developers could then focus on designing the small minutiae that makes up each world. Obviously this would limit the size of the individual world. Maybe certain worlds would only allow a certain amount of players, or any amount at once. With the corridor itself acting as the hub, maybe even a few structures within the corridor itself, like a giant tavern, or maybe a tower of shanties and building all strung together going infinitely up in to the multiverse.

 

[HuCast]

What about racing games like Burnout Paradise or Test Drive Unlimited? I think they come real close to an open world exprience and if you look at games like gta4 and their rich details it should be possible to take "open world racing games" even further than TDU. I imagine a racing game with a big city like paradise city where you can do your ' normal' races or stuff like escaping from the police and when you get bored with that you drive down to the beach to participate in more fun stuff like buggy racing or visit the outskirts of the city with open fields and hills and 'nature' to ride dirt bikes, jeeps and 4WD.

 

[Altercator]

What about racing games like Burnout Paradise or Test Drive Unlimited? I think they come real close to an open world exprience and if you look at games like gta4 and their rich details it should be possible to take "open world racing games" even further than TDU. I imagine a racing game with a big city like paradise city where you can do your ' normal' races or stuff like escaping from the police and when you get bored with that you drive down to the beach to participate in more fun stuff like buggy racing or visit the outskirts of the city with open fields and hills and 'nature' to ride dirt bikes, jeeps and 4WD.

Hmm, I almost forgot about that.

The Midnight Club model, where the objective is to go from Point A to Point B through a series of checkpoints until he reaches the final point. A waypoint is given to guide the player but otherwise, the gamer has enough freedom to do anything & go anywhere to reach each checkpoint.

EDITED for correction.

 

[tamla]

I don't think it is entirely possible to make a completely open-based game - there has to be some linearity othewise the whole thing would lack direction, and ultimately a purpose.

Online games would probably be the best model to achieve the sense of a randomly changing environment - numerous people with different traits and personalities behind every character you meet, the dynamics between different groups... To get that kind of variation in a "single-player" game you would have to have some brilliant AI that would control every non-player controlled variable, and react intelligently and realistically to every action you do in an infinately possible number of ways. There has been great leaps over the years, and it has been fun to watch, but there is still a long, long way to go before your computer controlled co-op buddy in a FPS will not be a severe burden to you.

 

[Altercator]

I don't think it is entirely possible to make a completely open-based game - there has to be some linearity othewise the whole thing would lack direction, and ultimately a purpose.

Which where we're getting at. It's not enough for devs to build an open-ended game, and tell the gamer to "do anything" without giving any purpose to the player. The devs must give player a series of objectives to for him to progress, at same time, must allow player freedom to accomplish these objectives however he wants.

If open-ended gaming is the future, this the way to go; balancing the needs of the devs with the wants of the players.

On AIs, best we can do when making open-world or sandbox games is to adopt the the RTS-based AIs which can adapt to any situation whenever the player does his own thing. If this works for Starcraft or Command & Conquer, it should work for other genres. Theoretically, that is.

 

[FrankDux]

I don't think it is entirely possible to make a completely open-based game - there has to be some linearity othewise the whole thing would lack direction, and ultimately a purpose.

Online games would probably be the best model to achieve the sense of a randomly changing environment - numerous people with different traits and personalities behind every character you meet, the dynamics between different groups... To get that kind of variation in a "single-player" game you would have to have some brilliant AI that would control every non-player controlled variable, and react intelligently and realistically to every action you do in an infinately possible number of ways. There has been great leaps over the years, and it has been fun to watch, but there is still a long, long way to go before your computer controlled co-op buddy in a FPS will not be a severe burden to you.

I agree, even in the 'open' games, there is still a central story arc that you have to progress through and get things done. Otherwise, you're just aimlessly wondering around. It devolves into GTA after you've beaten it, where you just cause mayhem to keep yourself from boredom.