Sausage Party and the possible future of animation for older audiences.

EMWISE94

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So i just saw Sausage Party today and I can say it was a good movie, like many that saw the trailer I thought it was just gonna be a film that rode on the "look its a cartoon but we're swearing and making sex jokes!" hype purely; while it is a vulgar comedy in line with most of Seth Rogan's stuff it at least has a good spread of jokes and knows that some of its more one note ones are good for one use and then move on from them (a notable example being the German spread product that look like nazis and want to exterminate the juice). It's plot is actual kinda interesting, having some attempts at religous allegories and sexual taboos (though the latter I feel tries to get applied broadly towards the end of the film despite seeming to only apply to one set of characters), it kept me invested enough that I left the theatre not with regret but with a slight urge to rewatch it with friends if they asked.

Now onto the real meat of this discussion, animation for older audiences (i'd say adult/mature animation but that just sounds like I'm talking about porn). I appreciate what Sausage Party is trying to push, that is: animation on the big screen doesn't have to be family friendly to be profitable and with the numbers its doing ($33m made from a budget of $19m) I'd say it's somewhat proved it. BUT, its not for everyone, like I said before its a vulgar humour comedy and I know a lot of people wouldn't recommend it to someone as a convincing way of saying "no, look, cartoon movies arent just for kids." without coming across as juvenile in some way. Sausage Party has set the stage I feel, now its time for other animated movies aimed at older audiences to come in ad fill that stage with variety.

My questions to you fellow Escapists: Did you see Sausage Party? What do you think of it? What would you like to see next when it comes to animation for older audiences? Are there any other films in this category you'd recommend?

EDIT: I'm focusing more on theatrical releases (not discrediting animated shows like Bojack Horseman, Rick and Morty etc, this is just a focus more on cinema), mostly from western studios. Yes I'm aware Japanese animation has more movies and shows with mature themes, but I'm keeping my focus more on the West due to the stigma of animation still being seen mostly as children's entertainment, on the big screen anyway.

Answering the third question, personally I'd like to see an action animated movie, something that doesn't shy from the violence without being to over the top, so something along the lines of what you'd find in a shounen animation, BUT, I'd want this to be a western animation, not out sourced to Korea or Japan to animate, those guys are kinda already known for that. Another thing I wouldn't want, despite knowing that it would probably bring in the most audiences numbers, is for it to be a DC or Marvel movie, mostly because I feel like execs would probably want it to be family friendly somehow to get even more mainstream appeal; only exception I can think of is maybe Blade, have a 4th Blade movie or reboot the series cause I know Hollywood love that shit and have it be animated.
 

Scarim Coral

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I watched it last week and I thought it was ok but short (88 mins).

I thought the concept was interesting (yes I know it's not new) but it did raise some thought when it appear certain inaminated items were also alive (you know which ones). The ending was hillarious and weird as fuck at the same time!

As for the future of adult animated films, I guess they can try more I guess just as long they treat their employees fairly and not slaving them. I read abit of a controversy that they overworked and underpaid their animated team and not even crediting some of them in the credit!

Also while I haven't watched this film yet but there was an adult animated film that was release last year but obviously never got markerted as big as Sausage Party.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Anime does tons of mature themes. America has this stigma that animation is for kids and mature animation has to overfill it with audacity, sex and gore like Southpark to shake off the mantle of the kiddie thing, as though american animation is Miley Cyrus or something.

I like south park but at the same time it isn't something that tends to give me goosebumps or make me cry like some anime have done. It's a different, satyrical and thoughtful but not all that epic and major feeling experience. Like, go watch Speed Grapher.
 

tippy2k2

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I greatly enjoyed it [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.942632-tippy2k2-tells-you-what-to-think-Sausage-Party] and I would love to see other adult animated films (besides the ones you find on those sites that give your computer a virus...)

As to other movies, while they certainly exist the only one off the top of my head that's not anime or a super hero movie would be "South Park: Bigger Longer and Uncut" [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0158983/?ref_=nv_sr_1] and "The Animatrix" [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0328832/?ref_=nv_sr_1] if you count that (do we count The Animatrix?). Ultimately, I think they can succeed or fail off of the same thing that makes regular movies succeed or fail; is it good? Sausage Party was very good but had it just been an average comedy, I don't think it would have done nearly as well even with the uniqueness.

EDIT: I forgot about "A Scanner Darkly" [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405296/?ref_=nv_sr_1]. Although like Animatrix, I'm not certain if that counts either...
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Its Family Guy humor, and I dunno, maybe I think there's more to being an adult that simply tea-bagging someone and blowjob jokes. Sausage Party is adult, in that its rated R and has swear words, but its a 13 year old's idea of Adult. Sex, Sex, drugs, Sex, more drugs, violence, Sex. Its little better than Beavis and Butthead, and not nearly as clever or satirical as South Park.

Thus Family Guy. Or more accurately, Seth MacFarlane's Cavalcade of Cartoon Comedy, which is just Family Guy jokes they couldn't get passed the censors.


And that's not adult, and certainly not mature. Like I thought the Animatrix was way more mature and adult, dealing with adult themes like war, racism, ambiguity of good and the banality of evil, without the need for shit jokes and jokes about shitting. And yeah, Sausage Party religion blah blah blah. If it had bothered to do more with 'Religion is wrong' outside of wanting to fuck, it might have worked. As it stands, its a 7th Grader's maturity.


This deals with adult themes way better than Sausage Party ever did, and I would argue both are geared towards the same audience, sophomores.
 

Smygskytt

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For mature, dark western animation, you have to watch A Scanner Darkly. A tragedy with lots of dark humor about the inevitable downward spiral that is drugs. And playing a junkie allowed Robert Downey Jr. to go absolute bonkers. Just watch:

 

EMWISE94

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Scarim Coral said:
As for the future of adult animated films, I guess they can try more I guess just as long they treat their employees fairly and not slaving them. I read abit of a controversy that they overworked and underpaid their animated team and not even crediting some of them in the credit!
Kinda left out this crucial info cause I feel that's a whole discussion on its own, truly it was shitty of Nitrogen Studios to treat animators like dirt, and I hear one reason it went on was because Canada doesn't have a union for animators so there wasn't much they could do. the words out now though so its up to them to take strides.

Dreiko said:
Anime does tons of mature themes. America has this stigma that animation is for kids and mature animation has to overfill it with audacity, sex and gore like Southpark to shake off the mantle of the kiddie thing, as though american animation is Miley Cyrus or something.
I'm aware of that, but one of the reasons I leave out Anime at times is because your Tokyo Godfathers, Cowboy Bebops, GitS etc, tend to be kinda rare these days and when mature themes are handled sometimes its through the shounen filters of usual BS. Though I will admit that I don't watch anime much these days mostly cause there's just too much stuff and honestly the anime art style, even with subtle changes across some shows just bores me. Also one of the reasons I want said mature themes in animation to come from western animation is to further break that stigma, I live in a country where media influence is heavily western and animation is no different, with most viewing as just stuff for kids and as an animator myself (amateur animator) I know that's far from the truth.

Silentpony said:
Like I said in my original post, I'm aware Sausage Party is a weak candidate to showcase as animation with mature themes due to its crass humour which is niche, hell while I'd recommend someone give it a watch I'm not expecting most to come out of it with glowing reviews, hell I'd expect 'meh's at best. Haven't seen the Animatrix in a while and I can't remember if it ever got a theatrical release, either way as good as it may be with its commentary, I doubt it gets the screen time it deserves (could be horribly wrong on this, hell I probably am). Also on the note of Sausage Party's religious commentary, its not the strongest nor is it unique, also I mentioned that whole the whole sexual taboo thing
Was mostly referring to how it felt only applicable to the hot dogs and the buns, as vulgarly humorous the food orgy scene was it felt like it never needed to be there, non of the other food showed signs of abstinence due their nature, hell the liquor aisle was full of raunchiness. So yeah the whole "we can't bang because reigion, oh wait religion is dead, lets all fuck!" seemed pointless, but being the movie it is I'm pretty sure the 'sex scene' was in there just to be like "look! its a cartoon but all this lewdness is on screen! cause cartoons are for kids and thus this is fighting the system lol!"

also just remembered that Titmouse had an R rated animated movie in the works, Nerdland.
also getting a theatrial release, looks like its going for a more toned down version of vulgar humor, but its something I guess. Also just realised that a lot of these animated films are going for comedic tones, another stigma of western animation I wonder? where cartoon is somehow equated to comedy?
 

EMWISE94

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Smygskytt said:
A good example, shame it was a box office flop (not really a hard flop, but even as a low budget film it failed to make its money back), gotta give that look sometime.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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I am DESPERATE for western adult animation that are not just "Adult" Comedies and sadly no matter how much shows like Bojack Horsemen tries its still at its core the same "Adult Comedy" only this time it shows a mirror at most other adult comedies and how banal and decedant they have become.

Like I would give anything for an animated adaption of Game of Thrones that is also very faithful to the books.

I mean Anime has so far filled the gap, but nothing has truly broken through the mainstream.

Western Animation is filled to the brim with:

3D CGI Animated cartoony kids stuff and cheaply animated serial cartoons for both kids and adults.
 

RedDeadFred

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I thought it had a lot of funny moments, but at the same time, it's a little over the top with being preachy. It's not that I disagreed with what they were saying, it's that there was zero subtly. Maybe that in itself was supposed to be a joke (and it did work sometimes), but most of the time I found myself thinking "yes, I agree, can we move on to the comedy now?"

Also, I was really hoping that the bath salts reveal would have gone in a different direction. Remember how it apparently caused some guy in Florida to try to cannibalize people? I thought they were going to explain it by saying that since bath salts makes you see the food you're eating as sentient beings, it made people never want to eat normal food again, so they turn on themselves for being monsters.
 

Saelune

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I want more animation that atleast has mature themes. Zootopia was sneakily that, even though it wasnt swearing or gory. I think Sausage Party got carried away a bit. And that orgy scene was not necessary, it really wasnt.

It doesnt need to rely on gore and shock, but Id love for animation that isnt a bunch of childish fluff. Animation allows for more freedom of absurdity too, due to not being restricted so much by reality. While I enjoy Family Guy, I want more animated movies that seem inspired by say, Archer, Rocko's Modern Life, Home Movies, or the Oblongs.
 

Zontar

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Saelune said:
Zootopia was sneakily that
Zootopia was sneaky in the same way that a jackhammer is subtle.

OT: I went in to Sausage Party with the expectations of it being a shitty stoner comedy, and was not disappointed. Hopefully now yet another market has been shown to exist/not be dead, and Hollywood, cash strapped as it is (outside of Disney this has been a very shitty year, with Sony and Paramount bleeding money), will realize that there is in fact a market outside of those aged 8-16 that isn't horror.
 

Saelune

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Zontar said:
Saelune said:
Zootopia was sneakily that
Zootopia was sneaky in the same way that a jackhammer is subtle.

OT: I went in to Sausage Party with the expectations of it being a shitty stoner comedy, and was not disappointed. Hopefully now yet another market has been shown to exist/not be dead, and Hollywood, cash strapped as it is (outside of Disney this has been a very shitty year, with Sony and Paramount bleeding money), will realize that there is in fact a market outside of those aged 8-16 that isn't horror.
I dont know many kids cartoons making jokes about the N word.
 

Zontar

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Saelune said:
Zontar said:
Saelune said:
Zootopia was sneakily that
Zootopia was sneaky in the same way that a jackhammer is subtle.

OT: I went in to Sausage Party with the expectations of it being a shitty stoner comedy, and was not disappointed. Hopefully now yet another market has been shown to exist/not be dead, and Hollywood, cash strapped as it is (outside of Disney this has been a very shitty year, with Sony and Paramount bleeding money), will realize that there is in fact a market outside of those aged 8-16 that isn't horror.
I dont know many kids cartoons making jokes about the N word.
That doesn't really oppose what I said. Zootopia was in no way sneaky, and was pretty hamfisted if we're being honest.
 

EMWISE94

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Saelune said:
I want more animation that atleast has mature themes. Zootopia was sneakily that, even though it wasnt swearing or gory. I think Sausage Party got carried away a bit. And that orgy scene was not necessary, it really wasnt.

It doesnt need to rely on gore and shock, but Id love for animation that isnt a bunch of childish fluff. Animation allows for more freedom of absurdity too, due to not being restricted so much by reality. While I enjoy Family Guy, I want more animated movies that seem inspired by say, Archer, Rocko's Modern Life, Home Movies, or the Oblongs.
Yeah that orgy scene was pointless, only existing to fill that "cartoons doing things that aren't kid friendly" tick box, or rather the 'sex joke' box on the list, which i feel the movie already did a bunch, also the only food products that had a thing that revolved around around sex taboo were the hot dogs and buns, it made no sense for the entire place to erupt in an orgy.

As for 'mature themes' honestly i feel like that one of the short hands when it comes to making something that isn't seen as mature look more mature. I mean sure, discussing real world issues within a medium like animation is great, but personally I kind of already surround myself in social commentary that I feel like I don't want to bombard myself with it.
 

Saelune

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Zontar said:
Saelune said:
Zontar said:
Saelune said:
Zootopia was sneakily that
Zootopia was sneaky in the same way that a jackhammer is subtle.

OT: I went in to Sausage Party with the expectations of it being a shitty stoner comedy, and was not disappointed. Hopefully now yet another market has been shown to exist/not be dead, and Hollywood, cash strapped as it is (outside of Disney this has been a very shitty year, with Sony and Paramount bleeding money), will realize that there is in fact a market outside of those aged 8-16 that isn't horror.
I dont know many kids cartoons making jokes about the N word.
That doesn't really oppose what I said. Zootopia was in no way sneaky, and was pretty hamfisted if we're being honest.
If nothing else, I dont think so many people were expecting it going in. I still feel the movie was more adult than expected, and was good for it.
 

Saelune

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EMWISE94 said:
Saelune said:
I want more animation that atleast has mature themes. Zootopia was sneakily that, even though it wasnt swearing or gory. I think Sausage Party got carried away a bit. And that orgy scene was not necessary, it really wasnt.

It doesnt need to rely on gore and shock, but Id love for animation that isnt a bunch of childish fluff. Animation allows for more freedom of absurdity too, due to not being restricted so much by reality. While I enjoy Family Guy, I want more animated movies that seem inspired by say, Archer, Rocko's Modern Life, Home Movies, or the Oblongs.
Yeah that orgy scene was pointless, only existing to fill that "cartoons doing things that aren't kid friendly" tick box, or rather the 'sex joke' box on the list, which i feel the movie already did a bunch, also the only food products that had a thing that revolved around around sex taboo were the hot dogs and buns, it made no sense for the entire place to erupt in an orgy.

As for 'mature themes' honestly i feel like that one of the short hands when it comes to making something that isn't seen as mature look more mature. I mean sure, discussing real world issues within a medium like animation is great, but personally I kind of already surround myself in social commentary that I feel like I don't want to bombard myself with it.
Mature themes is pretty vague. Adult animation that doesnt have mature themes is just shocking and gory, and I dont really care for that. It would be Sausage Party minus the religion aspect, and that was just genocide and orgies.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Saelune said:
Zontar said:
Saelune said:
Zootopia was sneakily that
Zootopia was sneaky in the same way that a jackhammer is subtle.

OT: I went in to Sausage Party with the expectations of it being a shitty stoner comedy, and was not disappointed. Hopefully now yet another market has been shown to exist/not be dead, and Hollywood, cash strapped as it is (outside of Disney this has been a very shitty year, with Sony and Paramount bleeding money), will realize that there is in fact a market outside of those aged 8-16 that isn't horror.
I dont know many kids cartoons making jokes about the N word.

But...isn't Zootopia a kid's movie with some adult themes? Like what's the line? The target audience?
 

Saelune

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Silentpony said:
Saelune said:
Zontar said:
Saelune said:
Zootopia was sneakily that
Zootopia was sneaky in the same way that a jackhammer is subtle.

OT: I went in to Sausage Party with the expectations of it being a shitty stoner comedy, and was not disappointed. Hopefully now yet another market has been shown to exist/not be dead, and Hollywood, cash strapped as it is (outside of Disney this has been a very shitty year, with Sony and Paramount bleeding money), will realize that there is in fact a market outside of those aged 8-16 that isn't horror.
I dont know many kids cartoons making jokes about the N word.

But...isn't Zootopia a kid's movie with some adult themes? Like what's the line? The target audience?
Some things say "For all ages" but alot of times thats not true. There is a difference between things "For children" and "All Ages". Bob the Builder, Dora the Explorer, and Blues Clues are for kids. Zootopia, and many other Disney films...and most Nintendo games, I feel are for all ages.