Saving the World: 1939 - 1945.

[J. Reed]

A WWII thread? I know. I?m sorry. Please don?t hit me.

--Also, as a disclaimer, I have the disease known as ?Stupid? so if there are any historians, history majors, etc. reading this, and I?m incorrect, please, beat me over the head with it. I welcome the opportunity to get my facts straight.--

Anyway, recently I was thinking about America?s role in the whole debacle. Feel free to correct me if this doesn?t describe you, but it seems a lot of Americans think about the war as follows: ?Hells yeah! We saved Europe?s ass from the Natzees all by ourselves! You guys owe us forever!?

And that?s wrong.

Sure, American military power was pivotal in the victory, but the salvation of Western civilization is ultimately down to the actions of Great Britain.

Poland was invaded on the 1st of September, 1939. Great Britain declared war on the 3rd. So for two years Britain (and France, kind of? a little) fought Germany alone.

And this is actually a more remarkable event than people may realize (It?s not something I considered until very recently). Great Britain didn?t HAVE TO go to war. With 1940s Gee Bee a nearly homogeneous population of Aryan Anglo-Saxons, they weren?t in the Reich?s crosshairs. You have to take into account Hitler?s motivation here. His anti-Semitism took precedent over literally EVERYTHING; sound military strategy, allocation of resources, etc.

Hitler would have much preferred a separate peace with Britain and domination of the continent. I?m not saying somewhere down the line Great Britain wouldn?t have been attacked, but at the time, had they not declared war, they?d have been safe. Then the entirety of the German army would?ve been freed up to fight on the Eastern front, which probably would?ve spelled the end for Russia, and any future military assistance from them.

But they did declare war, despite Germany?s enormously powerful war machine. The danger to civilization was recognized and forces were mobilized to combat it, allowing for the eventual victory in 1945. Even after the United States entered the war, the Allies didn?t truly gain a significant advantage until the early months of ?45. Victory was never certain (at any point, really, the Allies could?ve lost), but the actions taken by the British at the outset, in my opinion, gave the Allies the edge that allowed them to win in the end.

We did play a very crucial part, but a lot of Americans, I think, are too full of themselves to acknowledge and appreciate everyone else?s contributions. Our biggest impact wasn?t even with our military. It was our industry. We basically armed Russia and let THEM break the back of seven of the German army?s eight divisions.

So, as an American, I?m saying thank you, Brits, for being audacious, winning the Second World War, and saving the world.

Huh? no discussion value here?

Well (and this is mainly directed at my countrymen, but everyone else feel free to weigh in), I?m curious to hear what you all think of America?s involvement? Personally, I feel it was important, but somewhat overstated nowadays, what with movies and videogames. We venerate ourselves too much, basically.

EDIT: In my very first thread on the Escapist, someone replied ?tl,dr.? That was it; just ?tl,dr.? From that moment on I?ve hated people like that. So, seeing as there?s a lot to read here, and if you?re little brain can?t handle a few paragraphs, you don?t have to TELL ME you DIDN'T read it.

 

[shotgunbob]

I still answer on forums all the allied powers won it together.

To me the victory in Europe was won by air power (B-17 and the P-51 Mustang) Of course the Mustang was powered by the British Rolls Royce in use in the Supermarine Spitfire.

 

[Agayek]

My take on it is basically MovieBob's position as demonstrated in his The Green Zone video:

Americans are arrogant to the point of inanity, and we must either always be either the One True Savior, or the reason whatever it is needs saving in the first place.

From what I've read on WWII, which is a lot more than most, though far from a complete history of the war, I'd have to say that America didn't single-handedly win the war as most Americans like to think. I'm not entirely convinced I agree with you on the war being lost if Britain had not declared war when they had, but their actions are probably the most impressive military/societal stand I have ever heard of.

The problem I have with your assertion is that there were two main reasons Hitler didn't just roll over Russia in the first place. First, the German army was outnumbered something like 8 to 1. Even with modern weaponry, that's a massive disadvantage and you'd be hardpressed to win that fight. Second, the Russian winter killed roughly double, maybe even more, the number of Germans lost in combat. The Nazi war machine tried to invade Russia in winter, and Russian winters being what they are, the Germans died by the score. It was truly brutal weather that the Germans had no experience of, and were not prepared for. It doesn't matter how many men you bring into that, most all of them will die from such extremes.

 

[Davrel]

As a Brit, I recognise and appreciate the assistance provided by the Americans in the Second World War both economically and then eventually militarily. I'm well aware of the pivotal role that the United States played in the war.

Yet, Hollywood and repeated historical inconsistencies and downright lies ("Inglorious Basterds" is excused) about events that took place during the war that get portrayed in American movies make me feel like facepalming.

EDIT: In my very first thread on the Escapist, someone replied "tl,dr." That was it; just "tl,dr." From that moment on I've hated people like that. So, seeing as there's a lot to read here, and if you're little brain can't handle a few paragraphs, you don't have to TELL ME you DIDN'T read it.

I approve of this.

We just want to get along. Except with France. We are LONG overdue another war with France.

Also this.

 

[Idlemessiah]

Man I spent 2 years over GCSE's and A-Levels studying WWII. It's mildly crushing to see it summarised in such a small space. But no matter, I'm an archaeologist now so anything younger than than the industrial revolution is irrelevant to me.

Anyhoo. I'm pretty sure I read it in a post somewhere on here which made an excellent point about the USA and the war. It went something like, they keep banging on about it, making movies and games depicting their sole moment of military glory and saving everyone elses arses like they were all incompetent. The key part of the statement goes thus: The rest of the world does not care any more, they want to forget about it and don't need America pushing it in their faces every 6 months or so.

Personally I think this is quite an accurate point. Most British people have no problem with Germany these days. We just want to get along. Except with France. We are LONG overdue another war with France.

 

[J. Reed]

My take on it is basically MovieBob's position as demonstrated in his The Green Zone video:

Americans are arrogant to the point of inanity, and we must either always be either the One True Savior, or the reason whatever it is needs saving in the first place.

From what I've read on WWII, which is a lot more than most, though far from a complete history of the war, I'd have to say that America didn't single-handedly win the war as most Americans like to think. I'm not entirely convinced I agree with you on the war being lost if Britain had not declared war when they had, but their actions are probably the most impressive military/societal stand I have ever heard of.

The problem I have with your assertion is that there were two main reasons Hitler didn't just roll over Russia in the first place. First, the German army was outnumbered something like 8 to 1. Even with modern weaponry, that's a massive disadvantage and you'd be hardpressed to win that fight. Second, the Russian winter killed roughly double, maybe even more, the number of Germans lost in combat. The Nazi war machine tried to invade Russia in winter, and Russian winters being what they are, the Germans died by the score. It was truly brutal weather that the Germans had no experience of, and were not prepared for. It doesn't matter how many men you bring into that, most all of them will die from such extremes.

Ah, I see you're making full use of my disclaimer. Yeah, I suppose I am overstating things a bit. I guess I got carried away writing it. And maybe I sounded like I was saying "the war would've been lost if Britain hadn't declared war", but that's not what I intended, exactly. I just think it helped to bring about an easier victory.

Although I do think the odds were well in Germany's favor when they were in Russia. If Hitler wasn't such a poor strategist, and the army sieged Stalingrad and cut off supply on the Volga, rather than pouring money and lives into taking it by sheer military might, it would've fallen. The Winter still would've killed tons of men, but it wouldn't have ended in defeat, or been as crippling.

But that's a big "what if."