Science Proves That Trolls Ruin Everything

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Lonewolfm16

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Feb 27, 2012
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Abomination said:
I find it odd that there's no link to what the study defined a "troll" to be.

It is odd because many people disagree on exactly what a troll is. To some people it's someone who plays devil's advocate, to others it is someone who enters a thread saying something with the intent of riling others up, and sometimes it's just someone who disagrees with you.

I thought the term for someone who just spouts obscenities or negative opinion over something was a "flamer", not a "troll".
I'd say flamers are a subset of trolls. The accepted definition for troll, at least to my knowledge, is someone who posts diliberatly offensive things in order to upset and anger others. Mabey we should divide them elementally. You know, flame trolls are super angry obscenity spewing balls of rage, rock trolls are delibratly stupid and illogical, ice trolls can be... something else ect.
 

Mr.Mattress

Level 2 Lumberjack
Jul 17, 2009
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delroland said:
Don't worry, I have my jar of Turkish miak; I'm good to go.
Not Turkish Miak! You need Bulgarian Miak! You crazy son of a-- You'll kill us All!!

OT: Yeah, I believe that.
 

Dangit2019

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Aug 8, 2011
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Let's list all of the internet things that this explains:

Sexism threads
Friendzone threads
ME3 threads
Mlp threads

and whatever the hell 123fakestreet posts whenever he comes around.
 

Namechangeday

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Aug 13, 2012
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Is it just me or do trolls...I mean scientists have too much time on their hands? Have we already found all the world secrets and need something new to study? Are there more scientists than there is science? Well then, I'll just find these answers once I read though this forum.
 

Evil Smurf

Admin of Catoholics Anonymous
Nov 11, 2011
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So don't be a dick and it will all be okay?

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/photos/1300000/Troll-Doll-troll-dolls-1353646-302-450.jpg
Fine, I'll just go home then.
 

Twilight_guy

Sight, Sound, and Mind
Nov 24, 2008
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Another reason to dislike trolls. And this time that reason is SCIENCE! You heard it here first people, science tells you that trolling is bad. Don't be a troll and don't feed the troll... FOR SCIENCE!!!!!
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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First of all they dont seem to know what a real troll is.
trolls is a prankster. ir originated from practical jokes and went into ways to trick people.
now however every idiot who flames anyone is labeled a troll so news like this appear. Thank you, internet, for ruining yet another concept.
If i have learned anything being a scientist is that most scientists dont really know squat their talking about. Its just that the average audience know even less and as such they think they know thier stuff.


beside that, all i thought reading the article was this:
 

kouriichi

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Sep 5, 2010
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Vegosiux said:
kouriichi said:
Who are you to judge my way of life?! You find me pathetic even though you dont even know me?

Thats what truly holds the world back these days. Treating others poorly based on their life choices! Discrimination has never led to anything good in our world. Maybe if you and all the parents who think "Violent video games are evil", opened your eyes to the truth that its not the troll, or the game that's the problem, its poor parenting and bigotry that are!

But i will forgive your quick judgement on my nature, and extend an olive branch of friendship. Not because im the bigger man, but because its the right thing to do.
Oh-ho-ho-ho. I've got my eye on you, mister! You shan't affect me in any meaningful way, no sir! But, the thing is, "professional troll", "devil's advocate", I don't know...those things are quite difficult to pull off since they obviously need to have the proper motivation, and often people misinterpret them as "antagonizing people for the sake of antagonizing them".

Fanghawk said:
It only gets worse when discussing serious issues like climate change or Mass Effect 3


I see what you did there!

I wouldnt say ive ever "Antagonized" people. More like..... "Brought forth the most important thing we humans can have".

Feelings. I have given others the gift of knowing they are alive. Love, anger, confusion, things like these are what make us alive! Without them we are nothing but a shell. I have shown people how to feel! How to live and breath! Even if I must be the target of the more base emotions such as anger, and rage, so be it, if it means I am doing what i know is the right thing.

But please, dont think me as a martyr, im only doing what others wouldnt. Caring. Because caring is important. Just as you care for your family, i care for all mankind! And i only wish to share this caring, this feeling of being alive. If thats not motivation, than i dont know what is.
 

Distance_warrior

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Jul 6, 2011
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RJ 17 said:
Actually I think the real point of this article can be summed up with the wise saying "Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded." It is for the exact reason that you brought up: 9 times out of 10 no matter how well thought out, stated, and expressed your opinion might be, the chances of actually changing someone else's opinion is nearly impossible. What's the moral of the story? What we all already knew: just ignore the jackass saying things clearly just to piss you off.
(excitedly pleased at the prospect of intelligent discussion)I actually kinda disagree with you. While I'll admit that the chance of actually changing someone's mind on the internet is slim to nil I whole heartedly disagree with the idea that I can not be done. There is not really anything about the internet that make changing minds with it any more difficult than with a book or print article. The point I see behind this argument is that the main reason why this doesn't happen is that on the internet people don't normally have the social graces that they have in real life and resort to mean spirited tones to express their frustration. This idea is kinda based on the fact that the original article from what I read only described the comments as "inflammatory" and "rude" and trolling seems to have been added by the various media that this article has been passed down from. The escapist at this point is getting its data from io9 not the original article.
 

Slash2x

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Dec 7, 2009
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I purposely skipped reading ANY of the comments, but my psychic senses tell me it is sooooooooo full of trolls there might as well be a giant fucking bridge over the post.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Well, part of the problem is that who a "Troll" is, is debatable. In general someone who had a strong opinion that is contrary to the majority of people participating in a discussion or response thread is viewed as a troll. Ditto for people telling you things you don't want to hear, especially if they are stated strongly, and happen to demolish what you wanted to believe to begin with. In general people respond with anger when they have strongly held beliefs challenged rather than even considering alternative viewpoints or *gasp* realizing that defining parts of their
personal beliefs might be entirely wrong.

The problem with a scientific study of this sort is that you need a real community to see trolls or what are being called trolls incorrectly, and see things unfold as they happen, to truely see the response. Scientists creating a simulated trolling and then telling people to just read it, as opposed to participating in the discussion, is kind of meaningless and shows no understanding of the phenomena.

It should also be noted that if your looking for evidence of the problems involved in internet communication, the things to consider are situations like a certain Bioware employee who made a grandiose statement about avoiding the forums because of how "toxic" they were. In general, when it's actually important, people will tend to simply remove themselves or ignore things they don't want to hear or consider (even when they need to, like in this case) rather than actually remaining glued to it to the point of changing for the positive or negative.

Look again with Bioware and what they did with "Dragon Age 2" they asked fairly early on in the dev process if it was okay for them to have a human hero, with no origin story, and a pre-defined name in exchange for increased voice acting. The answer was an overwhelming "no" from the community. Bioware generally ignored everything they didn't want to hear, listened only to positive feedback, and then told everyone they did what they wanted to do with community approval. On some levels, looking at later "toxic forums" comments it leads me to believe that they might simply be creating their own reality while becoming detached from the real thing, due to simply ignoring any negative feedback they get as the work of "trolls".

-

To be honest, if scientists are going to do useless intenet studies, I'd be more interested in finding out if any of the "Memes" created by 4 Chan or Anonymous can be seen to be working.

The point of a Meme is to basically burn something into the collective consciousness to the point where it doesn't go away and can actually be instinctively inheranted as a sort of ancesteral memory. An example of this would be to say take a group of people with a very distinctive style of society and arcetecture, steal their babies, drop the babies on an habitable planet to be raised by antiseptic robots and then see what they wind up building over a period of time. The idea of a meme is that if you were to say do it with Arabs their eventual buildings would match the existing MO of towers with domed tops, theocracy, and a general style of dress because this is how the people did it for thousands of years and the people would "remember" these things without actually remembering them consciously and develop along those lines. The same could apply to any group with a distinctive style ranging from Europeans and their style of arcetecture, to Asians, or whatever else. The idea features heavily in science fiction by way of justifying how someone might say visit planet seperated from the rest of spacefaring humans that fell into barbarity, rose from it, and then grew to almost exactly resemble some ancient civilization or other based on what the people were like or what group wound up dominating.

There have been all kinds of permutations of this over the years including "killer memes" that result in the destruction of those they infect, viruses that move through ancesteral memory, and similar things.

At any rate the joke with 4chan and Anonymous was that some of this stupidity was supposed to be circulated on such a high level and so heavily saturated that it would seep into the human consciousness through the wonder of the internet. Every time I hear someone talking about "old memes" or "memes they wish would die" they seem to kind of miss the point, and truthfully I've actually run into a few kids and stuff who have spouted or referanced memes without knowing the source or original context. When you consider even something as benign as Lolcats has wound up being everywhere for over a decade now you do have to wonder if The Internet is accelerating the process dramatically as some people theorized (which began the entire schtick).

That kind of a study might be more interesting, see how many kids recognize memes or think they seem vaguely familiar or "heard that somewhere, but don't remember where". Before they even really have unfettered net access.

Of course that would be a waste too, but better than trying to study trolling as a phenomena. That's almost as silly as people studying "cyber bullying". :p
 

Baresark

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Dec 19, 2010
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Argh. After reading the original article.... It's rather annoying that it starts with an agenda. It starts with a decided idea on climate change. It even states how the people who deny it don't understand the science at all. Then it goes into the few paragraphs talking about what this article is about as if what the article here states is not the main idea of what the original article is. That aside, the ideas stated here are old idea. Furthermore, the link to the study is dead (ie. 404 not found). And then the article trolls the so called trolls, which leads me to believe they don't know what a troll is.

As far as the people who are knocking the potential for a scientific study on something that seems so obvious... that is what science is for. Science looks for definitive answers and doesn't take the face value of a given situation. Science involves testing and retesting to prove something. That isn't to say Kahneman and Tverski didn't prove trolling leads to trolling before trolling even existed, they did.

rollerfox88 said:
Feeling emotion is an effortful action, to do so occupies a portion of your working memory. This means you have less available "processing power" to sort through the information in the article, and so pay less attention/assign less meaning to it. This causes you to disregard any new information, which is why original beliefs are affirmed.

While I understand that its important to prop theories up with supporting evidence, there comes a point when there is already enough evidence (see practically all of Dan Kahnemans career) and scientists should spend their time researching something else.
Obviously I agree with you about Kahneman and Tverski's work. But your off base on the your original assertion by Kahneman and Tverski's standards. Emotion is the quick intuitive part of the brain, it's the effortless part of the brain that is using that. The rational slow part is lazy and doesn't want to be involved if it doesn't have to be. And it's the constant influx of emotion that trolling leads to that basically prevents rational thought from prevailing.
 

Mr F.

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Jul 11, 2012
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kouriichi said:
Professional Troll here, and i just want to say, you shouldnt lump us all in together. A lot of us classier trolls would never spam, "U MAD?", or aim for someones worst quality in a direct way. Some of us are so subtle you wont even notice it. Youve all had that moment where you have to ask yourself, "Did i just get trolled?", thats what a lot of us shoot for.

Idiots and Arses ruin everything. Trolls? Real trolls? Trolls that know blunt cursing and spamming the same thing isnt sportsmanlike? We highlight the problems.
Actually, I think so called "Real trolls" (Anyone who calls themselves a professional troll without actually working for a newspaper) are worse then the sub-par trolls you are talking about. Firstly, they misuse the term professional, which infuriates me. Secondly, with an idiot troll you can notice them immediately and move on with the debate. With someone like you (A self declared troll) it is much, much harder to move on with the debate because you are within the debate, deliberately derailing it and being a penis. What is worse for a debate, people in the background yelling "LOL U MAD BRO LOL HITLER IS AWESOME KEK" or people within the debate trying to derail it and infuriate you?

Sorry, either way you are being a penis.

OT: Trolls ruin everything. Huh. Next science will prove that I am a sexy beast or that smoking makes you look cool. Whats next, Captain Obvious?
 

TheCommanders

ohmygodimonfire
Nov 30, 2011
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Distance_warrior said:
(In a calm helpful tone of voice)All you did with that argument is enforce his already held beliefs just as all his did was enforce yours. The real message of this study is that if you want someone to listen to you you need to be friendly. Using a condescending tone, excess hyperbole, veiled insults or standing on an absolute opinion will only cause them to become defensive and focus more on what they need to do to maintain their opinion and less on any genuine points they might have.

(Joking cheerfully) Hell you weren't even arguing against me and reading your post made me all the more sure of myself in my interpretation of the article.
Heh, while I was reading this post a little voice in the back of my head was wondering if you were an Elcor.

OT- I honestly just never understood the point of trolling (where my definition is people who participate in a discussion for the sole purpose of provoking the other participants or derailing the discussion). I would just consider people who get their jollies from that sort of thing bad people.

PS- If anyone remembers the original dictionary definition of trolling (real word), try using it in conversations with frequent internet users, then explain it to them after a minute of confused stares. It will entertain you, and improve their vocabulary. Everybody wins! Bonus points for using the fishing related definition.