Scientists Chill Atoms to Negative Temperatures

[lacktheknack]

I love how none of this actually makes any common sense. They have found a way to get past absolute zero without hitting it, it gets hotter than positive numbers could get, and it could lead to more than 100% efficient machines.
I love science.

Actually, it does make a bit of sense.

Above zero, atoms diffuse, which you can observe by dropping food dye in water.

However, temperature is a measurement of atomic velocity. That is, the faster the atoms move, the higher the temperature.

So, what happens when you play a video at -2x speed? It goes twice as fast as normal, backwards. Thus, intuitively, atoms at negative temperatures will undiffuse.

Which means they all start occupying each other -

... nope, stops making sense again.

However, if that does cause the insane heat that we're told it does, then yeah, I can see that creating > 100% efficiency engines.

 

[Ukomba]

So, would it mean writing a new law of Thermodynamics, or extending the 3rd?

 

[JonnWood]

Science, cut that out!

 

[someperson1423]

Thanks to four years of Mechanical Engineering I can safely say, if this isn't some weird April Fool's joke, this is huge.

Exactly what I was thinking. If this is actually possible and becomes applicable then our long-term energy concerns look a lot less problematic.

 

[Ukomba]

Thanks to four years of Mechanical Engineering I can safely say, if this isn't some weird April Fool's joke, this is huge.

Exactly what I was thinking. If this is actually possible and becomes applicable then our long-term energy concerns look a lot less problematic.

I wonder if there are side effects. 300% more efficient engines, but pre-natal exposure causes biotic abilities.

 

[Redingold]

So, would it mean writing a new law of Thermodynamics, or extending the 3rd?

It doesn't break the third law of thermodynamics, because that only says that you can't get zero temperatures. These guys got to negative temperatures by going through infinity, by being very clever with the definition of temperature and the idea of entropy.

I want to make it clear that they have not created anything with negative heat. This thing still has positive heat and positive energy.

 

[2xDouble]

Sounds more like they created antimatter to me... but what do I know.

 

[Ukomba]

So, would it mean writing a new law of Thermodynamics, or extending the 3rd?

It doesn't break the third law of thermodynamics, because that only says that you can't get zero temperatures. These guys got to negative temperatures by going through infinity, by being very clever with the definition of temperature and the idea of entropy.

I want to make it clear that they have not created anything with negative heat. This thing still has positive heat and positive energy.

I didn't say it broke the 3rd, just that it might need to be extended to reflect this reversal. I don't know that it Breaks the 2nd law yet either.

 

[Redingold]

So, would it mean writing a new law of Thermodynamics, or extending the 3rd?

It doesn't break the third law of thermodynamics, because that only says that you can't get zero temperatures. These guys got to negative temperatures by going through infinity, by being very clever with the definition of temperature and the idea of entropy.

I want to make it clear that they have not created anything with negative heat. This thing still has positive heat and positive energy.

I didn't say it broke the 3rd, just that it might need to be extended to reflect this reversal. I don't know that it Breaks the 2nd law yet either.

Well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

As for the second law, while they did manage to decrease the entropy of this supercooled whatever-it-is, the equipment they used will almost certainly have raised entropy in the surrounding environment, so the second law's fine too.

 

[grey_space]

First step... reproducable results! Then start calling it something new discovered.

I agree. If so, let me be the first to claim

SORCERY! BURN THE FOUL BREAKERS OF GODS LAW BACK TO THE HELLS FROM WHICH THEY CAME!!!


Seriously could be pretty big if its repeatable and can be repeated cheaply enough to make it marketable.

 

[Vegosiux]

Well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

As for the second law, while they did manage to decrease the entropy of this supercooled whatever-it-is, the equipment they used will almost certainly have raised entropy in the surrounding environment, so the second law's fine too.

Exactly. The 2nd doesn't say that entropy can't decrease on a local scale, it's purely global.

 

[Avaholic03]

First step... reproducable results! Then start calling it something new discovered.

I agree. If so, let me be the first to claim

SORCERY! BURN THE FOUL BREAKERS OF GODS LAW BACK TO THE HELLS FROM WHICH THEY CAME!!!


Seriously could be pretty big if its repeatable and can be repeated cheaply enough to make it marketable.

You think they would have published it if it weren't reproducible? They would be the laughing stock of the scientific community if that were the case.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Above zero, atoms diffuse, which you can observe by dropping food dye in water.

However, temperature is a measurement of atomic velocity. That is, the faster the atoms move, the higher the temperature.

So, what happens when you play a video at -2x speed? It goes twice as fast as normal, backwards. Thus, intuitively, atoms at negative temperatures will undiffuse.

Which means they all start occupying each other -

... nope, stops making sense again.

It's simple, the atoms have joined the occupy movement:

Spoiler

They're just sick of those 1% dark matter elitists stealing all their energy, they did make signs to explain all this, but they're so tiny no one can read them without an electron microscope.

That said, I still haven't made it past Schroedinger's cat, so this is just more bafflingly impossible crap that makes me think the Large Hadron Collider is really just a huge LSD production machine.

Or as someone else said, the media are just mis-representing quantum physics again. Because trying to summarise several decades of thought experiments and advanced mathematics in a half a page article opposite pictures of celebrity botox comparisons is pretty damn hard.

 

[Cpu46]

Even though I had nothing to do with it I always feel a bit of pride when science does the seemingly impossible...

By pride I mean I am going "HELL THE F*** YES" in my mind over and over again.

 

[Gilhelmi]

I love how none of this actually makes any common sense. They have found a way to get past absolute zero without hitting it, it gets hotter than positive numbers could get, and it could lead to more than 100% efficient machines.
I love science.

Agreed, Though I still want to see a peer-review study done. We do not need another "Chemist discovering fusion, but got the math wrong" or something like that (the story was a while ago).

But still, if this is real, Warp engines, end of resource wars, maybe even Global peace.

 

[Innegativeion]

Wait so... did we just figure out how to reverse entropy?

A lot of anime and video game villains are going to be really kerfuffled by this development.

 

[servognome]

But the thing is, "temperature" is basically defined as the kinetic energy of the particles. And therefore, the lowest possible temperature is the one where the particles are not moving at all. You can't "cool an atom below absolute zero", at least not if you still want to keep the same definition of "temperature" as we use when we say "Oh, it's 23 degrees outside".

From a thermodynamic perspective temperature also includes aspects of entropy. Negative temperature systems are in fact "hot," but the entropic properties lead it to be negative.

 

[servognome]

It's been a while since I took solid state physics, but haven't similar properties been used before?
For example a peltier cooler uses the non-conserved entropic flow of holes and electrons as a heat pump.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Ok, I think.... nope... hmmm.

K, I'm stopping now, this is currently beyond my [sub][sub](incredibly basic)[/sub][/sub] understanding of how heat and atoms work.

...I'm going to drink the think away, this shit hurts my head.

 

[Porygon-2000]

Well, this certainly SEEMS wonderfully important. I think. Just... let me try and wrap my head around it a it more.

One question, though. Since this is obviously SCIENCE!!, does this mean we'll be getting jet packs out of this?
Because goddammit science, what are we paying you for?!