SCOTUS leak suggests Roe v. Wade to be overturned

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Trunkage

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Plan B prevents pregnancy after unexpected creampies, but i think there is a time limit. IIRC you have afew days tops to take a Plan B and this would prevent pregnancy. It's borth control just like the pill, patch, shot, IUD, condom, etc etc. It stops a pregnancy from starting so it isn't aborting anything.

Unless you use the argument that all BC is abortion in some form, which is crazy talk.

I've read everyone's point on this, and I've changed my mind. Abortions are fine, go nuts. I can't think of any reason to deny them...in retrospect. Except.....
If I remember correctly, Plan B stops the walls of the uterus from being able to accept a fertilized egg, hence the limit time of use as it might take a few days for the egg to travel down the fallopian tube

I remember my gf (now wife) having super crippling anxiety over getting pregnant. She wanted a life outside of motherhood and knew that unexpected children would destroy that. I just get to ignore all those issues
 

Buyetyen

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I remember my gf (now wife) having super crippling anxiety over getting pregnant. She wanted a life outside of motherhood and knew that unexpected children would destroy that.
And that is precisely what the anti-abortion crowd want. These prudes don't believe in sex for fun, just for procreation. This is the same party that tried to impose abstinence-only education on the nation and expect queer people to lead voluntarily celibate lives. It's just another method of control.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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You know, if sex were just "for procreation"*, we'd be a lot better at knowing when we're ovulating, just saying. Maybe even do the "go into heat" thing. If we're searching for meanings for biological processes, the sheer fact that sex is fun at theoretically any time in the fertility cycle, males don't have set times where they're fertile either, and gay people enjoy having sex should be a clue that "procreation" isn't the primary meaning.



*(biological processes aren't *for* anything, they just are)
 

Trunkage

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Most people who want to adopt never do because there aren't enough children. There is a waiting line, and people go overseas to get a chance to adopt. There are unadopted kids in the foster system, but they aren't infants given away at birth, they are majority children who lost their parents or who were taken away by CPS, who are old enough to have their own personality that most people trying to adopt aren't equipped to handle. That is a different problem not related to abortion at all.

Nearly every person who has a child thinks they aren't prepared or responsible enough to be a parent. They all manage. If the people who think they are lacking are more responsible by choosing abortion, why do you think they'd be less successful than those who have the child?
As a person who ACTUALLY has to deal with parents, many DO NOT manage.

As a person who has to deal with single parents or grandparents taking over, there are a lot of biological parents who utterly fail

As a person who has to deal with foster parents, it makes me sick to my stomach what some of these kids have already gone through before the age of 5

I know too many raped children and I would really like it to stop. And I live in Australia where it's not as big of a problem as it is in the US
 

Buyetyen

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*(biological processes aren't *for* anything, they just are)
Yeah, but conservatives love assigning teleological intent to natural processes. See: intelligent design. Again, we're talking about religious prudes who are absolutely against fornication, and furious that the rest of the world continues having sex anyway.
 

Seanchaidh

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I really don't understand the idea that an abortion is just a woman's decision about her body. When that isn't really the case entirely. The whole idea of "my body, my choice" kind of falls flat when if you didn't want a baby why didn't you get one of the 11 different types of birth control?
An outcome the patient doesn't want could have been prevented in another way, so we're not going to let medical care happen.

Now apply this logic to injuries from a skateboarding accident.

I can symphatize with that viewpoint but I don't think it entirely applies in the US. Because Trump was never voted into office. The electorate did its job and rejected him, and he had to be forced into office by the electoral college overruling the electorate.
The electoral college is the established process for determining the president. It didn't 'overrule' the electorate, but rather did precisely what it was designed to do in precisely the way it was designed to do it. Replacing the electoral college would be one of many necessary steps toward making the United States democratic.

If you didn't want to be responsible for a child, you shouldn't have had sex. That's literally what we tell boys/men who don't want to be responsible for a child, including the ones where the child exists because the father was sexually assaulted, or was a minor victim of statutory rape, or didn't engage in a sex act that could normally cause pregnancy, etc, etc.
Yeah, none of those issues are the same as requiring someone to give birth. And even if they were, it wouldn't matter: requiring someone to give birth is wrong either way.

Anyone, man, woman, nonbinary, cis, trans, or whatever else, has the right to remove another thing from their body whether alive or not, however developed it may be, and whatever its provenance.
 
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Gergar12

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On TYT one of the hosts mentioned using a cruise ship to carry out abortions in international waters. This will last about until a republican wins the presidency, arrests the captain, and sinks the ship.

In one of my classes(underground economics), it mentions the federal government is bad at enforcing the war on drugs or illegal guns. What should happen is simply to get the abortion pills from one legal state to another. Period. Cruise ships are too expensive and too large of a target.
 

tstorm823

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Oh, you're one of those originalists too huh? Take that shit elsewhere.
My comment had nothing to do with originalism. I'm perfectly comfortable with the words of the constitution taking on new or broader meanings over time as words themselves change, but there are no words in that document that can be reasonably interpreted to guarantee a right to privacy. As the original claim of a constitutional right to privacy says, they pulled that from an "emanation of the penumbra" of the Bill of Rights, where the penumbra is those concepts that can be reasonably inferred from the written rights even if they aren't written, and an emanation is extension even further from the source than that. The actual logic the Supreme Court used to establish a constitutional right to privacy is that if you take certain rights as implied by the ones that are written directly, and then explicitly go one step further, that still counts as a constitutional right.
They're not necessarily more responsible than the people who have children and responsibly can care for them.

They're more responsible than people who have children and are then unable or unwilling to care for them, creating an unnecessary and unavoidable trauma.
I don't think the people having abortions are those who would neglect and abuse their children. I think they are people as convinced as you are that they are making the responsible decision. I don't think they are making the responsible decision, but I'm willing to judge people by their own intentions, and believe they would seek other ways to not traumatize their child.
Historically, how well has telling people not to have sex for fun worked out?
That's not the statement. The statement is "if you have sex, be responsible for the resulting child". That stance, more than any other principle, is the foundation of our society. When people put other things above their responsibility to their children, our society crumbles to dust.
 

Buyetyen

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That's not the statement. The statement is "if you have sex, be responsible for the resulting child". That stance, more than any other principle, is the foundation of our society. When people put other things above their responsibility to their children, our society crumbles to dust.
So again, no sex for fun. We hear over and over and over again from the right that the only way to guarantee no baby is no sex. Ergo, no sex for fun, just for baby-makin'.
 
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Seanchaidh

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My comment had nothing to do with originalism. I'm perfectly comfortable with the words of the constitution taking on new or broader meanings over time as words themselves change, but there are no words in that document that can be reasonably interpreted to guarantee a right to privacy. As the original claim of a constitutional right to privacy says, they pulled that from an "emanation of the penumbra" of the Bill of Rights, where the penumbra is those concepts that can be reasonably inferred from the written rights even if they aren't written, and an emanation is extension even further from the source than that. The actual logic the Supreme Court used to establish a constitutional right to privacy is that if you take certain rights as implied by the ones that are written directly, and then explicitly go one step further, that still counts as a constitutional right.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things ...

To be secure in the autonomy of one's body and the medical practice concerning it against arbitrary control by the government seems not to be going one step further from this (the fourth amendment), but rather is a smaller step in the same direction from the foundational principle upon which the fourth amendment right is grounded.
 
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tstorm823

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To be secure in the autonomy of one's body and the medical practice concerning it against arbitrary control by the government seems not to be going one step further from this (the fourth amendment), but rather is a smaller step in the same direction from the foundational principle upon which the fourth amendment right is grounded.
Moot point, since banning abortion is far from "arbitrary control", but you mostly just agreed with what I said. You infer certain principles from enumerated rights and then go an extra step off of those principles to reach the position you're looking for.
So again, no sex for fun. We hear over and over and over again from the right that the only way to guarantee no baby is no sex. Ergo, no sex for fun, just for baby-makin'.
You don't think you can do something for fun but also be responsible for the consequences?
 

Trunkage

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On TYT one of the hosts mentioned using a cruise ship to carry out abortions in international waters. This will last about until a republican wins the presidency, arrests the captain, and sinks the ship.

In one of my classes(underground economics), it mentions the federal government is bad at enforcing the war on drugs or illegal guns. What should happen is simply to get the abortion pills from one legal state to another. Period. Cruise ships are too expensive and too large of a target.
This depends on what's actually happening but surgical operations should probably be done somewhere stable. And medication that makes you nauseated probably should mix with waves
 

Trunkage

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You don't think you can do something for fun but also be responsible for the consequences?
Are you suggesting that when an accident happens, that we shouldn't be able to fix the problem, just because we are having fun?

Like, if we're on a trampoline or riding a motor bike, we have the chance to break an arm. So, if this happens, we have to 'take responsibility' and.... just live with a break arm?
 

Trunkage

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That's not the statement. The statement is "if you have sex, be responsible for the resulting child". That stance, more than any other principle, is the foundation of our society. When people put other things above their responsibility to their children, our society crumbles to dust.
My statement would be if you BIRTH a child, be responsible for that child. If you don't think you are capable of being responsible for a child, don't birth it

I've got two kids. I know my limit for responsibility is two kids. I'm not going to have more just because 'society will crumble to dust'. We've made sure that going further than what IS responsible is not going to happen
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
It may lose them votes in one demographic of women and gain them votes in another.
It won't gain them votes, it will lose them votes though. Anyone who was really on the "prolife" side was already voting republican. But there are conservative prochoice people also, or at least ones that don't think it should be illegal. This will only cost them votes and could swing things democratic in the mid terms.
 

Casual Shinji

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If you didn't want to be responsible for a child, you shouldn't have had sex.
So on top of an increase to the rate of child abuse, infant mortality, women dying from performing abortions themselves, we're also going to see an increase in sexual frustration. I'm certain men especially will deal well with that one. Yeah, this overturning of Roe v. Wade is going to make life so much better for everyone.

Homicide =/= fixing the problem.
Not constructing a building is the same as burning it down with people inside.

The fucking pettiness of all of these excuses.

'If you didn't want a baby you shouldn't have had sex.'
'You don't want to be pregnant, but I'm sure you'll manage.'
 
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