self righteousness and the escapist

[Something Amyss]

We can't change gamers, so all we can do about it is nothing or laugh.

I've used this Max Planck quote a lot of late:

A scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

I think it applies to more than just science, and I think it can apply here. Change happens because a generation of gamers "die off," as in leave the scene. We can't change gamers, but gamers are changing. That's the source of the friction.

Now we're just one step away from politicians, who do this for a living.

Well, I'm officially old enough to run for President, maybe I should just switch fields.

Amaranth 2016: at least you know about the skeletons[footnote]Disclaimer: May be actual skeletons[/footnote] in my closet and the boots[footnote]Disclaimer: Boots may also be skeletons[/footnote] underneath my bed!

 

[Fat Hippo]

From what I see here, the forums have actually become a bit more level-headed because users like Sung-Hwan, Zeel and EternalNothingness have left.

I kind of miss Sung-Hwan and EternalNothingness. I mean, they were batshit crazy, but absolutely hilarious.

Man, I loved how Sung-Hwan could pretend to be completely level-headed, and looking for a discussion, but when he was presented with anything other than his precise opinion and total agreement (which never happened, because his opinions were always insane), it was as if there was a bug in his programming, and he just...broke. Became completely incapable of storing or processing any new information.

Come to think of it, he was kind of like every bad internet user, but on steroids.

if we're going to talk about self-righteous members who were banned then we have to talk about Dholland662. that guy was completely crazy you may have not heard about him because he mostly hung around the religion and politics section but man. One time he compared immigration to when China took over Tibet and said if we support Tibet freedom we should be against immigration. I am not kidding!

Pfft, that's nothing. Sung-Hwan basically believed that the only measure of a persons worth was their knowledge of the media they consume, specifically video games and anime. And anyone who simply consumed media, without intimate knowledge of everything surrounding it, was like a lower class of human beings.

The sad thing is, I can't help but laugh, but such people obviously need psychological treatment. But instead they wander across internet forums, in search of people who share their particular brand of insanity, which they obviously did not find here on The Escapist. In the "real world" they would presumably search forever, but instead they might actually find others to reinforce each other's spiteful ideologies somewhere in the wide reaches of internet communities. Which is a little bit scary.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

I like The Escapist cause format-wise, it has remained relatively unchanged and has stayed relatively unstained by social media.

Communication here still requires using capitals, proper grammar and writing a bit more beyond "lol" and calling it a day.

As for the many sweeping statements being made in this thread that "people are this and that"...people are just people. Everyone is normal: everyone has some good and some bad in them and specific environments bring out specific traits. The Internet is fantastic at making people lazy and acting same in their communication.

I don't know, but I can't pin it on anything else. It's fun to have a disembodied wall of text and an avatar argue for you instead of having to talk face-to-face with a human being and take turns. That fun then becomes complacency, and soon enough stubbornness and entrenched opinions.

Tumblr, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc. are the quintessences of that laziness: echo chambers. I'll beat my anti-social media drum as best and as much as I can, but the reason I see why people here are more often(relatively) interested in discussing in lieu of shouting at one another is because you have to put some effort into what you say. Even if sometimes not everyone thinks about what they post, but hey, like I said, we're all human.

In my case, I don't post or I delete an entire post, however long, if I don't believe it contributes something to the discussion.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I don't know if it was quite so bad back when you first signed up, but if it was, do you remember the fate of anyone who dared question the supreme and unquestionable glory that was Valve and his most holy GabeN? Or dared have the audacity to not think Half-Life 2 was the be-all end-all that gaming ever has been, could be, or would ever be again?

Dunno about anyone else, but when I stopped lurking and started posting in 2010, it was pretty damn great around here.
As for those "sacred cow" subjects, at least they were about video games.
Instead of Social Justice, GamerGate, or whatever the hell awful vaguely-gaming related controversy is popping this week.

 

[lacktheknack]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Man, this thread takes me waaaaaaay back to 2010, when people were complaining about the site's elitism and arrogance... and now people think it's new? The more things change, the more they stay the same, it seems...

 

[Erttheking]

I want everyone to honestly think about the last time that they took someone's opinion seriously when that person radially disagreed with them. When was it? I can only think of a handful of times I did it.

 

[Flutterguy]

People are self righteous, on and offline, but the aggression seemed to escalate on this site during the gamergate fiasco, especially in R&P when the gamergate threads were corralled into it. Gamergate was a pointless argument to me, and lead to many of my favourite posters executions.

We always had feminism, video game politics and trending issues as a running theme in my years here, but GG really was the end of many good things.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Snip

Well I wasn't able to find any archived pages that had the tagline. I did see a couple other people make that claim, however, so I suspect it was a joke that Kross played at some point or something.

But I think I've found an explanation of where it all came from.

I like to think that I'm a pretty big jerk around here. At least I try to be. Even more so lately.

Don't pretend it wasn't us. I can't quite imagine another community going 'Oh, those Escapists, they're really the last bastion of intelligence!'

And if you're a tenth as intelligent as you claim this website is, you'll know that a self proclaimed nickname holds no water. Please don't insult mine (or The Escapist's) intelligence by claiming otherwise.

It was a joke comes from this

(The Internet's version of the Lighthouse of Alexandria)

Therefore the "last bastion of intelligence"

Which is a joke in the Forum guidelines. Sadly some people can't understand that.

The Forum guidelines page that he's talking about no longer exists on the site, but we can see an archive of it here [http://web.archive.org/web/20100206041919/http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.116826-These-forums-and-you-Forum-Posting-Guidelines].

The majority of references come from mid 2010, however, the oldest reference I can find to the phrase comes from May 2009.

And now that I'm here, I shall offer up something relevant to the thread that is not from last year.

I can't remember who said it, and I wasn't really (that much of) a child at the time, but

The escapist, last bastion of intelligence on the internet

Lies.

It's kind of funny, the majority of people who bring up the phrase either do it mockingly or simply state that The Escapist is not, in fact, the last bastion of intelligence. I only saw one or two people support that claim in all the results google turned up.

 

[SecondPrize]

Everyone's too religious now, even the atheists. When you just take things on faith rather than relying on reason and observation, you're just no fucking fun to chat with.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

snip

Fascinating! Well this was a pretty awesome thing to investigate, so thank you for helping.

I also received a PM from theSovietConnection (who couldn't post in the thread because of technical issues) who pointed me to this post made in 2010 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.392828-Come-up-with-a-slogan-for-The-Escapist#15853693] that also claims they were actual taglines. So we seem to be getting conflicting accounts of whether the site actually used it or not, I'm guessing it was only used for an extremely short amount of time, sort of like you said, a joke (probably because it sounds self righteous) also because I don't want to face the idea that my memory may be playing tricks on me.

Zeel was good for a laugh some of the time.

That day somewhere around April when they let him lose on the forums again and he got himself banned in less than 24 hours, beautiful.

snip

Welcome back, you've missed the best part.

 

[veloper]

We can't change gamers, so all we can do about it is nothing or laugh.

I've used this Max Planck quote a lot of late:

A scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

I think it applies to more than just science, and I think it can apply here. Change happens because a generation of gamers "die off," as in leave the scene. We can't change gamers, but gamers are changing. That's the source of the friction.

You must have a lot of faith in the new generation.
I reckon any new generation will have to learn the stuff from experience all over again, so the grand cycle of butthurt will continue even without us. The insults and slurs may change, but foolishness will remain the same.

Now we're just one step away from politicians, who do this for a living.

Well, I'm officially old enough to run for President, maybe I should just switch fields.

Amaranth 2016: at least you know about the skeletons in my closet and the boots

We should practice then!
I hope we can find a fun topic to argue about soon.

 

[Johnny Impact]

People are self-righteous everywhere.

A guy at my work thinks black people are born criminals and he'll throw made-up Internet statistics at you to "prove" it. When cornered, he'll say something like, "You just know these things." He uses pretty much the same argument to explain that Bush Senior was the best president America ever had. The more questions and counterpoints you bring, the tighter he contracts around his little ball of rightness.

I offered criticism of Fury Road and had my head bitten off by a friend of a friend, who said it was the best movie ever, that essays had been written demonstrating it, that Miller was a genius proudly carrying the flag of feminism towards a new and perfect world, that to question his work was to trample the cause of equality and decency, and I should burn in hell. All I can say to that is she must have seen an entirely different empty summer popcorn-muncher than I did. And as for essays constituting proof, you can prove anything with Google and five minutes. But no, it was more important to her to scream at someone who disagreed with her unassailable moral superiority and seethe in righteous rage than to think about what had been said.

It goes on. The Escapist is not the first or last place to feature self-righteous people. The difference is that an Internet forum gives you all the time you need to craft a response, and doesn't allow anyone to be interrupted or shouted down. Insulted, certainly, I mean my insert-fictional-omnipotent-being do people get creative with the insults, but no shouting or interrupting. Also, unlike Super-Feminazi Girl above who will simply go on spreading poison, people who consistently disrupt/inflame things have a pretty good chance of being removed. This is probably the best type of venue for debate.

Everyone's too religious now, even the atheists. When you just take things on faith rather than relying on reason and observation, you're just no fucking fun to chat with.

But you *are* a lot of fun to poke with a stick. Lots of folks around here -- myself included, once or twice -- have gotten their warnings/suspensions by finding and prodding other users' berserk buttons. I'd like to claim it's because we're offering reasoned counterpoints in an attempt to show the raging ogre that anger isn't the answer, that he'll still be wrong no matter how many times he insults us, and that the thing to do is learn. I can't make that claim with a straight face, though. Really we do it for the same reason little boys poke frogs with sticks. There's nothing to gain but a moment's idle entertainment. We poke because it amuses the inner five-year-old.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

....

There's a lot of it, just as much as there isn't. People are certainly free to be tight-assed and obstinate, but aren't we all in some respect? Humility is probably the rarest trait in a human being because it has to actively be pursued by a conscious mind, its much easier for most to act self-righteous than humble.

Being able to hide behind a pseudonym contributes even more to the fall of people into self-righteousness. Its easy when you don't actually have to confront people face-to-face, and they won't know you from Adam. People tend to be less stupid when they can be embarassed publicly, not everyone but a major portion of the population cares about how they look in front of their peers. It tamps down on the self-righteousness, but some people do have their heads firmly shoved up their own asses, too far to know they're idiots and assholes and people hate them or at the very least dislike the hell out of their company immensely. You see it mostly in people who're disconnected from society by wealth, position or other means... the more disconnected from every day interaction the more likely someone is to be self-righteous. On the internet it increases exponentially...

So there's no surprise people do come across as self-righteous on the Escapist... They don't have to put up with the people they offend in the real world so there's no incentive for them to honor a social contract of not being an obstinate assjack to others.

 

[Something Amyss]

Welcome back, you've missed the best part.

Why, was there cake?

You must have a lot of faith in the new generation.

Not so much. In fact, kids these days scare me with their twitters and their gogles. When I was young, a googul was a mathematical figure!

I reckon any new generation will have to learn the stuff from experience all over again, so the grand cycle of butthurt will continue even without us. The insults and slurs may change, but foolishness will remain the same.

I'd like to not get political, but the only things I can think of to compare it to are religion and politics (US edition). Conservatives right now are dying off faster than they're born. The current youth generation is identifying less with religion. Gay marriage is now legal in the majority of states, and same-sex acceptance finally broke majority a few years back. The people who fall into these groups tend to be older. Even if the next generation sucks, they're becoming more progressive. And I realised that when I realised I'm not so progressive anymore. I'm going mainstream. Of course, not all change is necessarily good. But change is gonna come.

And with games? Well, let's just say I think the current situation has largely arisen from the fact that one demographic is losing its hold on gaming, and quite possibly losing touch. I don't think things will change overnight, but I think there's an issue because games. Games have changed. This whole internet "SJW" thing reminds me of "get off my lawn." I remember when people were puzzled I switched from tapes to CDs. And now it's like "what the hell is a tape?" And pretty soon, it's going to be "what the hell is a CD?"

Even the arguments about gaming have changed. When I was a kid, the idea that a mainstream action game would be 6-10 hours standard would be mind-blowing. The only way you'd really get 6 hours out of most of those games was by dying a lot. But six hours in a single playthrough? Mind=asploded. Then we got some pretty big games, and came to expect it. Now it's "only five hours? Pffft."

Unless it's an indie game. But the idea of a smaller game sold for a fraction of normal retail is still pretty neat to me.

We should practice then!

A chicken in every pot and a neural implant in every mind!

...solely for legitimate security purposes.

I hope we can find a fun topic to argue about soon.

Greedo shot first!

No, too controversial. Forget I said anything.

 

[Drathnoxis]

I also received a PM from theSovietConnection (who couldn't post in the thread because of technical issues) who pointed me to this post made in 2010 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.392828-Come-up-with-a-slogan-for-The-Escapist#15853693] that also claims they were actual taglines. So we seem to be getting conflicting accounts of whether the site actually used it or not, I'm guessing it was only used for an extremely short amount of time, sort of like you said, a joke (probably because it sounds self righteous) also because I don't want to face the idea that my memory may be playing tricks on me.

I believe you meant to say that the post was made in 2012, but yeah there have been a few other people who have claimed that it was a tagline. Here's one from 2011 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.305090-Best-Escapist-Quote#12248674].

I just can't find it though. I've checked an archive from about once a month from 2009 to 2012 for the front page, the forum index, gaming discussion index, the about page(the google description comes from this page), and the code of conduct. I've been checking the description that appears on the tab, because I believe that is what would be used on a bookmark, but I've also been searching for the term "last bastion". I've also checked the site specifically on April 1st on 2009, 2011, and 2012, but I wasn't able to find an archive on 2010.

It seems like it would have been a tagline somewhere in 2010, because that's when the most posts mentioning the phrase are, but I can't find anything. The site doesn't really seem to use taglines much as far as I can tell. Most pages flatly describe the page you are on and threads just have the title of the thread. I don't know, maybe this is something that didn't archive well or I'm completely off base on something. I'm pretty much out of ideas now.