Sensitivity Training

[Erttheking]

Ok let me see, the topic of religion got brought up and...yeah sure enough
http://www.city-data.com/forum/members/bs13690-83559-albums-animated-gifs-pic44678-flamewar.gif

You know it's kind of depressing of how predictable the Escapist raging about things can get. The second that the word "Muslim" was said, I could hear the flame war a mile away. Seriously...can we just stop? Can we please just stop? Seriously, is this acomplishing anything? Is it changing people's opinion on things? Is it making this place more friendly. Because as I seem to notice, flame wars tend to make forums more hostile, make you more frustrated, and it just makes you enemies. As someone once said, winning an argument on the internet is like winning the special olympics. You feel good for a second, then you realize that no one cares. SO WHY DO WE DO IT!? And this is going to change nothing, I know that. No one is going to listen to what I have to say, I don't know why I'm bothering, but I am.

 

[Flames66]

That aside that was a real zinger, even as a christian I felt that.

I hear that. I think it's cause as far as Stout goes, she's not anti-Muslim, she treats all religions with equal contempt. Referring to religious people as ones who have "an imaginary friend" is a cheap shot at anyone who believes in a higher power that can't be unquestionably proven to exist.

I think it is the equivalent of a religious person saying "you don't believe what I believe therefore you are going to hell". Neither is a pleasant comment and both should be kept out of general conversation.

That is a really good way to put it. In criticizing religion some atheists start doing the exact thing they criticize religious people for.

People may disagree with each other, but there is no reason to be obnoxious about it.

 

[wasneeplus]

What's for a xenophobic turd to fail to understand? Some people get murderously violent because of a religion, about 99% of the time, it's a certain religion. I don't have to get a degree in Islamic Studies or anything to want to put a boot to it.

Except it ain't muslims 99% of the time. At the moment, Islam is probably the most violent large religion on earth, but only by a small margin. So what? We gonna boot out all the christians and hindus next?

Citation needed. Specifically a citation relevant to the last 20 years. Now, if you only consider honor killings, then you would have a point. Course, even there Islam still takes the plurality, if not the majority. However, excluding honor killings, Islam is very much in the lead concerning violence. Definitely over 90%, quite possibly well over 99%.

That is just pure nonsense. I know that over 90% of terrorist attacks in Europe are committed by non-muslims. And what about all the violence in Punjab, Sri Lanka and Northern Ireland? What about all the witch hunts in Christian Africa, or our friend Joseph Kony and his peers? And that's just the things we hear about in the media that are clearly atributed to religion, that's not including Bosnia and all the fires and bombings in mosques in the west.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

What's for a xenophobic turd to fail to understand? Some people get murderously violent because of a religion, about 99% of the time, it's a certain religion. I don't have to get a degree in Islamic Studies or anything to want to put a boot to it.

Except it ain't muslims 99% of the time. At the moment, Islam is probably the most violent large religion on earth, but only by a small margin. So what? We gonna boot out all the christians and hindus next?

To be fair both historically and in modern times Hindus have been resonably calm. Historically Christianity has been one of the most violent organizations of all time, mostly due to crusades and inquistions, along with witch burnings and the like. In the modern world however most christians live in first world countries that universally look down on religous bigotry meaning most modern Christians, even the fundementalists, will rarley use physical violence. Islam on the other hand has a history of acceptance and tolerance... and not so much in modern times, where it claims the worlds most violent major religion with a large margin.

 

[antipunt]

This comic.

Pure GENIUS

 

[bigfatcarp93]

For once, I think Sharon has a point.

 

[I.Muir]

That was amusing
well done

Seems to me that sensitivity is just another way of saying don't piss off the fanatics that can't behave like civilized people so firebomb places when they get upset. Some misled governments have not brought the hard end of a truncheon down on this kind of behavior yet so we're encouraged to just not provoke them at all instead. With exceptions, vocal minority yada yada yada except it might not be a minority.

Of course religion isn't to blame, just stupid people holding the same opinion/ belief.

Care to show me some cases where the government didn't prosecute people known to have comitted crimes such as "firebomb places when they get upset"?

I meant more metaphorically but I suppose it was a stupid example
It just seems dumb that a person can't have a perfectly stupid and almost suicidal opinion without actually having a good portion of the world trying to kill you

 

[dantoddd]

hmm....

Sharon has gotten hotter of late

 

[Sir Bee]

I have crazy voices in my head! I feel like Erin

 

[BX3]

Like all religions, Islam is ripe territory for comedy, but it's hard to tell if your audience is laughing because your joke is funny, or because they're xenophobic turds looking for any excuse to put the boot in on a religion they don't even begin to understand.

Sadly, it's usually the second one.

The silver lining however is that it's not exclusive to religious jokes. Basically any joke being mocking or condescending to a specific person or group of people is gonna get a few laughs more because of the audience thinking "yeah, FUCK those guys! I agree!" and less that the joke was actually funny.

I mean, shit, look no further than a few choice comments pertaining to the comic. Regardless, you guys don't have to worry too much about that being the case in this instance. The strip was genuinely funny, even if it's indirectly taking shots at me.

 

[Infernai]

On the plus side, at-least we can't say Erin's prejudiced: She appears to hate all religions the same amount, although i find the imaginary friends statement partly ironic given the previous arc.

 

[direkiller]

There also aren't any Christian theocracies out there than put people to death for adultery or blasphemy.

O how wrong you are.

killing children as witches
&
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Bill
"Africans see homosexuality as being both un-African and un-Christian"
death penalty for gay sex

Edit:
http://www.businessinsider.com/geron-pastitsios-2012-9
blasphemy charges

 

[Hyrist]

Historicly, Christianity is just as guilty as any other religious group when it comes to prosecution and sectarian violence. Muslems are just getting a bad spotlight due to extremists in that culture being a part of the mystical 'other' played by popular fanatical media sources.

As for the overall discussion - I do beleive mankind is slowly inching itself away from religion as a source of dogmatic beleif, and more as the refrence towards a philosophy of life (which I have always beleive was the actual point of religion, the stories are supposed to be lessons to learn how to live by, and not to be taken as serious history.) However, this is being accompanied by an exidous of actual religious pratice and a rise of individualistic mentalities, especially among western cultures.

The one thing Religion did well was create and moderate local growth communities, and while I agree that the adherence to dogma can't go the way of the dodo soon enough, an alternative mean of creating a culture focused on the sense of charity and unity needs to take its place or we're headded in a bad direction as a species.

 

[Hyrist]

In my opinion, it should be more important to presuve religious culture from corruption within than it is to concern yourself with outside influences.

There are several philosophies and pratices that most religions have in common. Yet historicly it is the differences, mostly dogmatic, that has caused the most harm and warfare in our human history.

"Forget the fact that both of our religions preach peace, charity, humility and goodwill, I'm going to murder your children and rape your wife because you beleive in a differen't prophet than mine."

 

[Tiger Sora]

Whatever you did to her nose in panel 2, looks cute.

 

[I.Muir]

That was amusing
well done

Seems to me that sensitivity is just another way of saying don't piss off the fanatics that can't behave like civilized people so firebomb places when they get upset. Some misled governments have not brought the hard end of a truncheon down on this kind of behavior yet so we're encouraged to just not provoke them at all instead. With exceptions, vocal minority yada yada yada except it might not be a minority.

Of course religion isn't to blame, just stupid people holding the same opinion/ belief.

Care to show me some cases where the government didn't prosecute people known to have comitted crimes such as "firebomb places when they get upset"?

I meant more metaphorically but I suppose it was a stupid example
It just seems dumb that a person can't have a perfectly stupid and almost suicidal opinion without actually having a good portion of the world trying to kill you

I hate to use this terminology, because it sounds stupid, but lets "get real" for a moment here.

Anyone here in the US can espouse any unpopular opinion they want. Remember that preacher who was going to burn the Koran? There was a lot of backlash and protesters showed up, mostly white, non-muslims btw, and one kid even took the Koran out of his hands. He eventually gave up on his idea. But no Muslim extremist group threatened him, they would probably like because they could use it as propaganda.

Professional media organizations, and I don't just mean news, I mean TV, movies, music, games, etc., are ALL very sensitive to offending groups. Not just Muslims though, any religion (big enough to cause them trouble at least), sexual orientation, or race. It is the country we live in where these guys are so afraid of offending anyone and facing bad publicity or protests that they would much rather change something than take the risk of a PR black eye.

Now for the "real" part, a lot of this backlash against any Muslim protest is really coming from a bigoted place. I don't really blame most people for this as they are just responding to the 9/11 attacks, to the war that was launched afterwards in the Middle East, and most people don't know or understand the history of that region and how US policy actually created most of the mess we are in now.

I am not Muslim but I have a Middle Eastern name and half of my family is Muslim. The other half is Christian. I of course ended up an atheist. But I have had cops ask me if I am Muslim. Have you ever been asked by a cop if you were Christian? I have had customers in my store tell me about how "those people are killing US troops" and "we should turn the whole place into a glass parking lot" sometimes not realizing they are talking about my family, sometimes knowing they are talking about my family. Have you had someone tell you that your family, aunts, uncles, little cousins five years old, should be killed and wiped from the earth? You don't think that is a form of personal terrorism?

I hear people say things like "We need to really put it to those Muslims" and no one gets upset or says that is not OK. If you were to say "The police really need to put the truncheon to the blacks in this country" people would be appalled and denounce you.

I understand where this sentiment is coming from but I still think it is morally wrong. People are people. I lived in Iran for a year when I was younger. The nicest people you will ever meet live in Iran. If you go over there as an American you will get all smiles and invitations to dinner. Are these the people you want to bring the truncheon down on? Are these the people we should destroy in atomic hellfire? Because if that is the case we might as well just set the nukes off and kill off all of humanity because none of us are better.

Oh jese you have me confused with the we should nuke that country kind of person
It irritates me to my very bones that you think that, it is truly insulting.
I am well aware that people within any given ethnic group or religion are still just plain old good and friendly person and I think you jumped to that conclusion way too fast, so hop off your high horse for a moment.
However for those few but it really does not seem like a few at the moment, that pick up molatov cocktails give up the right to not get shot by rubber bullets. To have the full force of the law, truncheons included brought down upon them. If you did not notice I did point out that opinions such as the one you seem to be assuming that I have are stupid and in this case suicidal. However even if they should hold such an opinion they should be free from violence as their words mean nothing, NOTHING and people should realize that. If they did not want to get this stupid opinion out, they have now exposed it to the world.

I'm also in favor of total nuclear disarmament
The rest of the world is better off if you don't even retaliate to being nuked

 

[robotam]

Stewart Lee and Chris Morris recommendations, you have got some very good tastes in comedy.