Seriously? You can almost win an award for THIS?!

[MrShadowzs]

you just dont get it man, its like how, life is just so shot that it could just, NAH im just fucking with yah, seriously hate when people do this they do almost no work for something and people read to much into it and they get an award, then people with real talent are just thrown on the street, well that was also my opinion on the music industry but you know what i mean

 

[subject_87]

While I'm fine with modern art as is and I won't shout 'THAT'S NOT ART!' at anything that isn't immediately identifiable, I gave up on trying to figure it out a while back.

And while I'm all for new and interesting things in games, this just strikes me as failing to hit the mark that's been hit quite well by many other games.

 

[almostgold]

That game is fucking retarded. I have no idea why people are mentioning minecraft and dwarf fortress.

 

[deleted_by_strongbad]

Oh wow...I hear crickets. For years I've just heard a bunch of people clamoring that games should be considered art... a game was made purely as artistic expression and now, beautiful silence. You want games as art, this is it. If you don't believe me go walk through an art museum, half of it is some largely BS and half realized concept with a lengthy description on the artistic vision of the artist.

You all have been monkey pawed!

 

[LiquidGrape]

Oh wow...I hear crickets. For years I've just heard a bunch of people clamoring that games should be considered art... a game was made purely as artistic expression and now, beautiful silence. You want games as art, this is it. If you don't believe me go walk through an art museum, half of it is some largely BS and half realized concept with a lengthy description on the artistic vision of the artist.

You all have been monkey pawed!

I've got some more straws for you to clutch at, if you'd like.

The Graveyard is by no means the be-all and the end-all of "art games". It's simply an exploration of ideas and choices which are rarely made, and therefore interesting for experimentation.
Whether it is a failed experiment or not, I cannot say. I haven't experienced it myself.
But the sheer viscera of the reactions expressed in this thread leads me to believe that some kind of purpose may just have been fulfilled...

 

[GotMalkAvian]

Actually, that game sounds fairly cool. I like to walk around graveyard, and often end up meditating on mortality, so it sounds like the game would speak to me. I love how so many people are complaining that it's "not a game." If The Graveyard isn't a game, then neither is something like Heavy Rain. Conflict and striving toward goals doesn't always have to be about shooting or stabbing someone else.

 

[itsausernamewhatofit]

EDIT: For clarity, the idea of The Graveyard is to be experimental. It's meant to be an interactive experience, rather than a game.

Isn't a game an experience that you interact with? I get what they're trying to do but in my opinion it seems like they sort of have an inflated opinion of themselves.

 

[Aur0ra145]

Ya'll wanted "Games as art" Well, this is part of what you're going to get.

It's not COD, it's not BC2. Though it is a very good idea. Using this sort of media as an "Explorable painting" is a very great concept.

I'm surprised that ya'll are mad about this. I would say that "The Graveyard" helps bring validity to the entire "Gaming as an art" argument.

The free trial might have issues, but it shows innovation. They're attempting to do, what others haven't yet. So what if it has bugs, the mere idea of it is quite amazing.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

How have you not heard of Minecraft?

Minecraft is not a game it is a beta release. Not saying it is not good just not a full game yet.

OT: Well if you want good free indie games there are always places like Armour games and Kongregate which do have some gems every now and then. You what games are like as art well this is what an art game should be like. They are only for a niche audience like expressionist painting. Although it is possible for a game to be art and good just very very hard.

 

[moretimethansense]

i have yet to play a GOOD 3d indie game, or at least one that i would indeed enjoy for more than 2 minutes before i got bored and went back to Red Dead Redemption or Saints Row 2.

snip

i guess so. ive been pretty spoiled by action games for so long that if more than 10 seconds in a game doesnt go by without something fun and awesome going on then i get bored

probably why i would pick Prototype or Crackdown over GTA 4 or Limbo. And why can't violence be art? why can't making mass slaughter and wanton destruction fun be considered artistic?

its like Yahtzee once said in his Painkiller review about how murdering dudes CAN be an art form.

No one is saying that games like that can't be art. They are simply saying that even though you don't like indie games, they can, and in most cases are, more artistic than most AAA games on the market today.

that's very true, but i think we should combine the two, have AAA-polish applied to indie artistic direction. imagine what could come of that?

I'll tell you, an increadibly expensive flop.

Indie games are desinged for a niche audiance and made with a very small budget, if they sell a few thousand copies they've turned a decent profit.
Spend the budhet from a AAA dev on one you have a game that could very well put the devs in to an early grave.

The masses don't want innovation, they want yet another bland shooter.

As for good indie games, Iji, play it, finish it, realise what an ass you've been and play it again.
A simple(ish) game, plays a bit like metroid but with an actual narrative and dialogue.

 

[The_Echo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Graveyard_%28video_game%29

i could make that game in one day and it gets nominated for an innovation award? what's so innovative about making an old lady walk through a graveyard?!

are the standards for indie gaming so low that they would nearly award THIS with an award? Seriously.

are there ANY indie games out there that blur the lines between AAA and indie? because so far i dont see any innovation in the indie scene.

Indie games are ALL ABOUT innovation. Usually in the way it tells a story, since, you know, indie developers don't have any money to do what triple-A studios can. That's what The Graveyard did. It set up an atmosphere and attempted to elicit an emotional response from the player. The Path did a similar thing, as all you can do is walk around in that, too.

And how is it innovation to make an indie game closer to what you find a hundred times over at your local GameStop? That's not innovation. That's fitting in.

so.... they're innovating by refusing to move to the third dimension or severly limiting what they do in it? c'mon, Grand Theft Auto was more innovative than any indie game i've ever heard of (besides Minecraft).

You don't need the best graphics to tell a great story. Chill out. 3D isn't innovative--it's just an aesthetic. Every genre can be made in 2D and 3D, there's no difference besides how it looks.

Your ideals of a good video game are highly shallow.

 

[LogicNProportion]

Ever since Watchmen and Dark Knight were barred from Best Picture, Daft Punk was barred from Best Original Score, and I saw Borderlands with a Game of the Year sticker at my Wal Mart, I have no faith in what gets awards anymore.

: I

 

[Azaraxzealot]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Graveyard_%28video_game%29

i could make that game in one day and it gets nominated for an innovation award? what's so innovative about making an old lady walk through a graveyard?!

are the standards for indie gaming so low that they would nearly award THIS with an award? Seriously.

are there ANY indie games out there that blur the lines between AAA and indie? because so far i dont see any innovation in the indie scene.

Indie games are ALL ABOUT innovation. Usually in the way it tells a story, since, you know, indie developers don't have any money to do what triple-A studios can. That's what The Graveyard did. It set up an atmosphere and attempted to elicit an emotional response from the player. The Path did a similar thing, as all you can do is walk around in that, too.

And how is it innovation to make an indie game closer to what you find a hundred times over at your local GameStop? That's not innovation. That's fitting in.

so.... they're innovating by refusing to move to the third dimension or severly limiting what they do in it? c'mon, Grand Theft Auto was more innovative than any indie game i've ever heard of (besides Minecraft).

You don't need the best graphics to tell a great story. Chill out. 3D isn't innovative--it's just an aesthetic. Every genre can be made in 2D and 3D, there's no difference besides how it looks.

Your ideals of a good video game are highly shallow.

tell me... what have indie games done that AAA games haven't already done before (and better)?

 

[TiefBlau]

You people seem to be misunderstanding something.

They didn't want this to be a video game. It just so happens that when it's interactive, they call it a video game, and so they have to classify this as a game.

I personally like this kind of artsy stuff, because I like it when people experiment with using interactivity for different things.

In short, stop being so fucking temperamental about it.

tell me... what have indie games done that AAA games haven't already done before (and better)?

Well, I can't.

Audiosurf
Uplink
Amnesia
Braid

These games speak for themselves. They do things so differently, there's not any one thing I can point out. I can only point you to the game and say, "There it is."

That's what I love about indie games. I can't guarantee they'll be good, but the ones that are really good are like nothing you've ever seen before. They experiment.

I don't really think AAA titles or indie titles are any better than one another, but don't even suggest that AAA titles are more original than indies. You won't win that argument, buddy.

It should be fun because that is part of what makes a game. Games have always, and should always, strive to cause a fun and enriching experience. It's what makes Super Mario and Zelda classics while games like "Chalked" and "Try not to Fart" fall into obscurity. Sure, you can make your game very art-heavy and even memorable, but if people aren't having fun in the first ten seconds of gameplay, you can say goodbye to most of the audience. Games, by definition, are fun. If a "game" is not fun, then it is not game, it is an interactive experience (like a 3D tour of a house). Likewise, "The Graveyard" should not be considered a game because it is not fun. You move a hobbling old lady to a bench and she sits. Seriously, that is not a game. You ask any other game critic, gamer, or just ANYONE out there and they will declare that games SHOULD be fun, otherwise they fail as games.

I agree that Graveyard shouldn't be considered a game. But that just happens to be the label we put on all our interactive media, so there you go.

And no, under this label, games don't have to be fun. That would be like saying all movies have to be fun to watch. I guarantee you Schindler's List was a brilliant movie to watch, and you know what? I don't think I was all that enthralled with watching Jews face imminent death.

 

[lacktheknack]

You'd hate it, but I adore The Path, which is made by the same people who made The Graveyard.

You don't play it for fun, let's leave it at that. But then again, I don't watch Schindler's List or go to an art gallery for a rollicking good time either.

 

[googleback]

yeah i saw this one on steam, no way would i pay for it. i have another one of their games that i got in a bundle; the path, its really good i think.

 

[The_Echo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Graveyard_%28video_game%29

i could make that game in one day and it gets nominated for an innovation award? what's so innovative about making an old lady walk through a graveyard?!

are the standards for indie gaming so low that they would nearly award THIS with an award? Seriously.

are there ANY indie games out there that blur the lines between AAA and indie? because so far i dont see any innovation in the indie scene.

Indie games are ALL ABOUT innovation. Usually in the way it tells a story, since, you know, indie developers don't have any money to do what triple-A studios can. That's what The Graveyard did. It set up an atmosphere and attempted to elicit an emotional response from the player. The Path did a similar thing, as all you can do is walk around in that, too.

And how is it innovation to make an indie game closer to what you find a hundred times over at your local GameStop? That's not innovation. That's fitting in.

so.... they're innovating by refusing to move to the third dimension or severly limiting what they do in it? c'mon, Grand Theft Auto was more innovative than any indie game i've ever heard of (besides Minecraft).

You don't need the best graphics to tell a great story. Chill out. 3D isn't innovative--it's just an aesthetic. Every genre can be made in 2D and 3D, there's no difference besides how it looks.

Your ideals of a good video game are highly shallow.

tell me... what have indie games done that AAA games haven't already done before (and better)?

Given off a legitimate atmosphere, completely immersing the player, telling a story in different-than-normal ways. And I'm just talking about Amnesia: The Dark Descent there. First horror game--in my opinion--to actually be scary. And it was an indie dev team that did that! Who'd've thunk?

Oh, and of course a lot of indie games are really fucking fun, (Castle Crashers is a prime example) but a lot of triple-A titles are just the same shit we've seen before, unfortunately. Indie developers don't have much money, so they don't use a lot of money in their games, and so they don't have as much stake in the game, which allows them to try different things that bigger studios would be too afraid to because it might not go over well with their audience. Methinks you need to play a few more indie games. (Games like Sleep is Death are very innovative; this one in particular uses two players to come up with the story and how it gets told. Jason Rohrer makes some interesting games.)

 

[Azaraxzealot]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Graveyard_%28video_game%29

EDIT: I guess all of this brings about a more glaring question... do you play games for yourself or for the developer? Because this seems like a game the developers really made for themselves and we are supposed to interact with it and feel EXACTLY how they want us to. I play games to have fun and escape from reality for a while, i don't play games to feel emotions, that's what movies and books are for.

i could make that game in one day and it gets nominated for an innovation award? what's so innovative about making an old lady walk through a graveyard?!

are the standards for indie gaming so low that they would nearly award THIS with an award? Seriously.

are there ANY indie games out there that blur the lines between AAA and indie? because so far i dont see any innovation in the indie scene. it seems to be just a bunch of sidescrollers and mario knockoffs.

i have yet to play a GOOD 3d indie game, or at least one that i would indeed enjoy for more than 2 minutes before i got bored and went back to Red Dead Redemption or Saints Row 2.

i really want to know if there are any 3D 3rd-person indie sandbox games out there... it seems like they are incapable of that (or even just good 3rd person in general).

and before you all go "SUPER MEAT BOY AND LIMBO!" on me, i played (and hated) both those games because i have no degree of patience for platformers, which it seems like every indie game is a variation thereof (or a Contra/Asteroids knockoff)

EDIT: Forgot about Minecraft and Mods. Because Minecraft is the only exception and everything else that's not a 2d sidescroller, run-n-gun, space shooter game is a mod.

Ugh. Just ugh. Its ART. You know art? The paintings you see in museums that are being slowly replaced with technology as a reflection of our modern culture? The graveyard was nominated because its art, not as a game. God forbid people use computers, humanity's greatest invention, for something else than boobs and explosions.

why is it when anyone says "this game sucks" to an indie game that gets some praise automatically people assume that individual is a twitchy, hardcore Halo or CoD player that spends all day making insults usually involving the fucking of someone's mother?

seriously. it's not like i want games to be like japanese games, i just want games to have a lot of DEPTH and REPLAY VALUE. something indie games don't seem to offer... (minecraft being the exception)

 

[Azaraxzealot]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Graveyard_%28video_game%29

i could make that game in one day and it gets nominated for an innovation award? what's so innovative about making an old lady walk through a graveyard?!

are the standards for indie gaming so low that they would nearly award THIS with an award? Seriously.

are there ANY indie games out there that blur the lines between AAA and indie? because so far i dont see any innovation in the indie scene.

Indie games are ALL ABOUT innovation. Usually in the way it tells a story, since, you know, indie developers don't have any money to do what triple-A studios can. That's what The Graveyard did. It set up an atmosphere and attempted to elicit an emotional response from the player. The Path did a similar thing, as all you can do is walk around in that, too.

And how is it innovation to make an indie game closer to what you find a hundred times over at your local GameStop? That's not innovation. That's fitting in.

so.... they're innovating by refusing to move to the third dimension or severly limiting what they do in it? c'mon, Grand Theft Auto was more innovative than any indie game i've ever heard of (besides Minecraft).

You don't need the best graphics to tell a great story. Chill out. 3D isn't innovative--it's just an aesthetic. Every genre can be made in 2D and 3D, there's no difference besides how it looks.

Your ideals of a good video game are highly shallow.

tell me... what have indie games done that AAA games haven't already done before (and better)?

Given off a legitimate atmosphere, completely immersing the player, telling a story in different-than-normal ways. And I'm just talking about Amnesia: The Dark Descent there. First horror game--in my opinion--to actually be scary. And it was an indie dev team that did that! Who'd've thunk?

Oh, and of course a lot of indie games are really fucking fun, (Castle Crashers is a prime example) but a lot of triple-A titles are just the same shit we've seen before, unfortunately. Indie developers don't have much money, so they don't use a lot of money in their games, and so they don't have as much stake in the game, which allows them to try different things that bigger studios would be too afraid to because it might not go over well with their audience. Methinks you need to play a few more indie games. (Games like Sleep is Death are very innovative; this one in particular uses two players to come up with the story and how it gets told. Jason Rohrer makes some interesting games.)

a lot of the POPULAR triple-A titles are the same shit over and over again, and besides, there's a good reason why those games sell... because they are FUN and POLISHED, and most often have something called REPLAY VALUE. everyone brings up "Amnesia: Dark Descent" and "Minecraft" over and over and over and over and over again as though that automatically excuses every single tentacle-rape flash game on newgrounds and every mario, asteroids, zelda, and contra knock-off that is 90% of indie game development. Seriously, you get one good game out of a thousand from indie devs, whereas even Homefront is more fun the second time through than Limbo is.

i'll probably come back to Just Cause 2 more than i will Amnesia: Dark Descent

and I'll gladly sink 100 MORE hours into fallout than spend more than 30 minutes at any given time playing Minecraft (seriously, i just can't play it for long stretches of time. too boring)

 

[Tipsythegza]

As for Root's suggestions, they are for the most part pretty weak.

From someone called Halo Fanboy, I can only take that as the highest compliment.

That made me LoL thanks.