Sexism in gaming, do we really give a f**k?

[Baron von Blitztank]

Yeah, I really don't give a fuck. I play games so I can have fun, I don't care whether or not it "misogynist" or "sexist" or whatever hot-topic word you're wanting to throw at me. If I'm having fun then I don't care!

 

[IronMit]

There are some examples of sexism but mostly that which people think is sexism is just rubbish writing.

The Hitman example...it's supposed to be stupid and the male characters are just as horrific. If the male body guard in hitman is a similarly exaggerated steroid induced lubed up unexplained turd of character design how can we call it sexist when the sexy nuns have had the same approach. If anything it's equality.


The other examples that are a mix of slight sexism and unimaginative tropes are not a surprise. When movies and tv shows still have these poor tropes and the obligatory girl next door in each show you can't expect much from videogames that are marketed to the stereotypical shorter attention span 15 year old boy.

 

[Jenvas1306]

Same goes for sexism. the question should be if something is sexism, not if sexism is bad.

Once that is determined, then what? Are you saying that we should only identify sexism, and do nothing else? That's about the only action I'd agree with. We've already proven how easy it is to interpret something as sexist, so merely identifying it is just a frivolous pursuit.

Now seeking sexism out in effort to destroy it sounds like a much more worthy goal of someone who is bothered by sexism. Someone who is annoyed, saddened, or bothered by it. Some one who doesn't care if it's really actually sexist, or if the game has other merits. Someone who can't have fun with the game's mechanics, or the overall narrative if someone with boobs is shown in the wrong light. Nope, finding sexism is only the first step, calling it bad and destroying it is the only possible goal after identifying it.

you couldnt possibly force anything, but you could educate, show how stupid and even unecessary it is. too bad noone is doing a good series of videos or the like about that.
After all I still gave tera a try, even its character are bothered me a bit and I do so with every game that is interressting enough to make up for being sexist unless its unbearable, but I am not gonna stop playing mario games cause they go for the damsel in distress trope, but being aware that it does is a good thing opposed to never thinking about it.

 

[MorganL4]

I just don't really see it is an issue. If we want to talk about character design what about this?

But is this over masculine portrayal any worse than the over sexualised depiction of women in video games. Its rooted in the same place, its rooted in "fantasy". Now i could understand the commotion if Madison Paige was dressed like a hooters waitress in heavy rain. Or if Alyx Vance ran around in HL2 in nothing but slabs of steak pinned to her vadge and breasts. But they don't because its a different type of fantasy.

Lets bring this old chestnut up.

There was uproar when that trailer was released, personally i found the trailer hilarious, and have you played the game? It's so tongue in cheek how are we meant to take any depictions of any demographic seriously in that game seriously? Yet a vocal proportion of the game industry was prepared to donate their testicles and wang in the name of feminism.

I think the real problem here is something closer to home. The fact that many gamers probably aint the coolest of people, and the biggest of studs.

Okay, here is the thing, both the GW3 image and the Hitman (whatever number) image play to the MALE fantasy, GW3 plays to the male fantasy of being the big tough badass that can kill alien invaders. Hitman's image plays to the male fantasy of the "forbidden fruit" being sexualized and made available for objectification.

The last sentence I included in the quote, IS the crux of the problem.... "many gamers probably aint the coolest of people, and the biggest of studs."

While I can give anecdotal evidence to the contrary (Vin Diesel, Tom Hanks, Mila Kunis) that has been the sterotype for quite some time, THE UNCOUTH MALE is the gamer. "gamer" needs a definition rewrite, more and more girls and women are playing games, sure most of them play Guitar Hero, the Wii or (insert mobile/facebook game here), But only because those are the fantasies made most available to them. Women are entering into this pastime, and are starting to accept it as their own, in numbers that have previously been unheard of, and images like the one in Hitman, or GW3 work to make them feel ostracized, and unaccepted... Which damages the medium overall.... So yes WE DO CARE. Why did the Republican Party loose so badly in the last US election, they made great strides towards the ostracization of half the population of the nation (the female half) It is really hard to vote for a party based on economic values, when you are being told by members of that party, that you have to watch a video of the death of your unborn child, if you want an abortion. The same as it is really hard to accept, and join in on a hobby when the current hobbyists are telling you that you are a piece of meat.

We need to make games with fantasies that both sexes can take part in, the exploration fantasy (Star Trek), the creation fantasy (Minecraft) Things that everyone can agree are worth exploring. Leave the hentai games to themselves. Can their be male empowerment fantasies? Sure, I'm not saying their shouldn't be, but in a games character creator, we need to have the option to make both Shaggy (Scooby Doo), and Brianne of Tarth(Game of Thrones). There need to be male empowerment fantasies and female empowerment fantasies existing together, not one at the exclusion of the other.

 

[ThisGuyLikesNoTacos]

Should we direct this question at women who play games? That's the golden question.

And for the last time male power fantasies can't be compared with male sexual fantasies, since while one of them is possibly alienating and offensive the other is not.

 

[Phasmal]

Surely if you don't give a fuck, stop making threads about it and let the people who do give a fuck talk about it.
Once again, all together now: these discussions are not going away.

I suggest the community deals with that. Changes will be made. Yes change is scary, but be brave.

 

[Talvrae]

The whole thing as a girl to me is kinda silly... I just saw the sorceress trailer for dragon crown, well I laugh a lot, it was so ridiculous that I could not help it... I'm not offended by it even if it does really look silly. Personally I would just hope there was more game that offered better females characters... Guess it will come Intime as the female community keep growing, but well the sooner the better. But we'll if that shit sell, so be it

 

[FFP2]

The woman in a game can be the most fanservice-y and shallow slut and I still wouldn't care.

Unlike most of the people that have a hernia over "sexist" things in gaming, I am able to distinguish a game from real life.

 

[Lee Oyd]

^ SO BRAVE.

Other people are able to distinguish good character design from bad one. But fuck them, they're gay and FEMINIST.

 

[Talvrae]

Surely if you don't give a fuck, stop making threads about it and let the people who do give a fuck talk about it.
Once again, all together now: these discussions are not going away.

I suggest the community deals with that. Changes will be made. Yes change is scary, but be brave.

Yeah it's true, change are also slow, but they are happening, just have to look at Lara Croft new design and the game remember me to see that they start to take female in video game more seriously in some games

 

[Lee Oyd]

I don't care for RPGs. Welp, what now? Guess I'll just play no game ever. That works.

 

[Tayh]

So... We're taking the "ignore it and hope it goes away" approach?
Yeah, because that worked so well in the past!
I wonder what'd happened if MLK and other Rights activists had thought the same, and how the world would have looked today.

Ignoring a problem doesn't just magically makes it go away.

 

[omega 616]

I just don't really see it is an issue. If we want to talk about character design what about this?
snip
Look at them big burly men, with their big over exaggerated arms, and their tiny heads. With marcus fenix holding his gun like its a large semi erect penis.

Except that isn't sexualisation of men, that is a power fantasy and just makes me think I should work out more. Male sexual objectification would be him wearing some kind of jock strap that is struggling to hold in some monster cock and balls the size of apples, while shirtless and ripped like the gears of war guys.

Would any of you guys play as that guy? No, you might say you would but would you really, would you just be lying to yourself? Yet we expect women to be ok playing as that witch from dragons crown, with her huge boobs being offered up quite literally on a plate?

You could say boobs aren't technically genitals but there is a reason women don't go shirtless very often.

I don't want to come across as a white knight and women seemed to love Bayonetta and chainsaw lolipop, so I have no idea what women want ... theres news, guys don't get women.

 

[Uhura]

I think it's amusing that most of these sexism/feminism threads are started by people who are sick and tired of sexism/feminism discussions.

It wouldn't surprise me if most people on these forums are sick and tired of those threads. 2-ish years of daily, feminist controversy threads tend to do that.

The thing that baffles me is that most of the feminist controversy threads on these forums are started by non-feminists. You know, it's difficult to understand how people are sick of the topic if they keep on creating new threads whenever some feminists somewhere says something about games. It really seems like they can't get enough of these threads.

OT: I do give a fuck.

 

[Oly J]

do I really give a f**k? not as such, not overly anyway, but even so it's still pretty f**king sad

 

[Hagi]

Way I see it there's two debates going on.

One is about more diversity, about not having serious female protagonists rejected by publishers on the basis of their sex. I care about that one and believe it's a problem.

The other is about less diversity, about getting sexualized female characters rejected by publishers. I don't give a fuck about that one.

There should be games with serious respectable female protagonists.
There should be games with sexualized women with massive bulging tits.

There should be games with serious respectable male protagonists.

Just saying...