Sexsim: have the tables actually turned?

[BRex21]

? women working and child labour are not the same thing...

NO... there not the same, however most countires that have child labor laws, like first world nations, have laws that specifically protect women if they are doing a dangerous job. Women can work for a mining company, they can be accountants, some countries let them be machine operators but most physical jobs are legally outside of what an employer can ask.

plus Im not from some 3rd world country where they have to physically mine with shovels and pickaxes,

Ironically if you WERE there would be a much higher likelihood that women could work in a mine. As i said previously, In the first world companies legally CANT ask them to dangerous work.

I imangine there may be a few women working in the industry, doing what im not sure, you can make insane amounts of money..even just for driving trucks

There is a serious problem with basing your view of the world on your imagination.

no Im being serious about the insane amounts of money thing, mabye not so much nowdays..but back a few years ago when the "mining boom" was in full swing people (generally people on a fly in-fly out thing) were making shitloads...even just for drving trucks

Then... go be a miner. I fail to see your point.

I think we got off track at mining,

anyway going back your making it seem like poor old men are being forced to toil in the feilds because the women have taken the nice jobs

my argument is that men are more inclined if they wish to take jobs that come with physical risk....wether that be working with dangerous machinery or whatever

fact is, on an induvidual basis, no one is forcing you to work in certian industrys, sure circumstance can play a huge part...but that affects everyone regardless of gender, skilled people who work in higher risk areas generally choose to

But there is a much higher societal pressure for men to succeed and make money, so much so that they will endanger their lives. While there is also societal pressure to ensure that women earn as much as men because anything else would be sexist.
MEN ARE WILLING TO DIE TO EARN THAT EXTRA 25 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR!
So willing that they make up 98% of workplace deaths.
For this they are called privileged.
Womens rights advocates campaign profusely to ensure they receive special placements and scholarships in things like engineering and and medical schools. They get affirmative action placements in most professional fields. They receive special protections in the workplace and society and we call them oppressed.
I'm not saying women are taking all the nice jobs. simply that a man will do what it takes to earn a living whereas a woman does what she wants and demands the same wage. This is not all men, or all women. Simply society enforcing a narrative of women as oppressed victims held back by men.

 

[Vault101]

? women working and child labour are not the same thing...

NO... there not the same, however most countires that have child labor laws, like first world nations, have laws that specifically protect women if they are doing a dangerous job. Women can work for a mining company, they can be accountants, some countries let them be machine operators but most physical jobs are legally outside of what an employer can ask.

plus Im not from some 3rd world country where they have to physically mine with shovels and pickaxes,

Ironically if you WERE there would be a much higher likelihood that women could work in a mine. As i said previously, In the first world companies legally CANT ask them to dangerous work.

I imangine there may be a few women working in the industry, doing what im not sure, you can make insane amounts of money..even just for driving trucks

There is a serious problem with basing your view of the world on your imagination.

no Im being serious about the insane amounts of money thing, mabye not so much nowdays..but back a few years ago when the "mining boom" was in full swing people (generally people on a fly in-fly out thing) were making shitloads...even just for drving trucks

Then... go be a miner. I fail to see your point.

I think we got off track at mining,

anyway going back your making it seem like poor old men are being forced to toil in the feilds because the women have taken the nice jobs

my argument is that men are more inclined if they wish to take jobs that come with physical risk....wether that be working with dangerous machinery or whatever

fact is, on an induvidual basis, no one is forcing you to work in certian industrys, sure circumstance can play a huge part...but that affects everyone regardless of gender, skilled people who work in higher risk areas generally choose to

But there is a much higher societal pressure for men to succeed and make money, so much so that they will endanger their lives. While there is also societal pressure to ensure that women earn as much as men because anything else would be sexist.
MEN ARE WILLING TO DIE TO EARN THAT EXTRA 25 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR!
So willing that they make up 98% of workplace deaths.
For this they are called privileged.
Womens rights advocates campaign profusely to ensure they receive special placements and scholarships in things like engineering and and medical schools. They get affirmative action placements in most professional fields. They receive special protections in the workplace and society and we call them oppressed.
I'm not saying women are taking all the nice jobs. simply that a man will do what it takes to earn a living whereas a woman does what she wants and demands the same wage. This is not all men, or all women. Simply society enforcing a narrative of women as oppressed victims held back by men.

since when does a guy who works in a ware house/drives a forklift make more than some high powered exectuive....how is a guy who works in an office going to die?

Im still not getting your reasoning, see to me its got nothing to do with the drive to make money, heres how I see it

how does one die in a workplace?

if he is doing dangerus things..what are dangerous things? well machinery, tools, chemicals abd such can be dangerous...if youre not careful and if you have accidents

who is MORE LIKLEY to work with such things? MEN...why is this? I think because they are more inclined that way..they are more physically able

 

[ConstantErasing]

Personally I don't think there is an overall advantage in favor of one sex over the other. I believe there are certain areas and certain circumstances where you could argue there is an advantage but I would say they seem to balance out pretty well. Now I myself am a guy so I am naturally going to see more in favor of girls being favored (because who doesn't often feel like they are treated unfairly) but I try to counter balance that with reason and by looking at things from both perspectives. That being said, though I believe they are overall equal there are some areas I would like to address with my own personal opinions and experiences.

First off, biology. Now I know that pregnancy is awful and that having monthly periods can't be a blast but I have never actually experienced any of that. What I have experienced is excessive force being applied to my crotch and thinking that girls are probably pretty lucky not to have such a sensitive protrusion in that area. Again though I think there are enough disadvantages in all areas of biology for both sexes to say that they are pretty much equal.

Next, affirmative action. Now since I am not actually in the work force I am not exactly qualified to speak in this area so I will make this brief. I have heard enough stories about problems in the work place from both sides to say that this one is also probably more or less balanced.

This is a big one for me, chivalry. I remember once especially in 10th grade a girl complaining about how chivalry was dead. My response was "good". The way I look at it chivalry was sort of a hand of fairness extended out to the "weaker" sex that in more primitive times had much less rights and as a result needed to be protected. Now, however, if you are going to claim that men and women are equals then you should remove chivalry from the equation. Not the idea of helping others aspect of it, but the one sided don't hit a girl or put women first aspect of it. In my mind equality is when you don't even consider what gender or race a person is in your overall dealings with them but simply treat everyone as simply a person. Nothing more, nothing less.

And yet a good chunk of the world cries this but still enacts "tradition". Ask a woman who should pay for dinner or a date, most are going to say the guy. Women expect gifts and other stuff from their boyfriends like flowers. I'm sorry but in this equal society where I'm making like 40k and you're making 40k why am I required to incur these extra costs? Oh because we're supposed to be gentlemen and fawn over you?

I find myself on the receiving end of this one in a way. As an example, our schools Sady Hawkins (I almost certainly spelled that wrong, its the one where girls ask the guys to the dance) failed miserably because the girls couldn't be bothered to ask the guys. Also as a guy who is rather shy I find myself wishing I didn't have to be the one to step up if I wanted to be in a relationship (though this is kind of undermined by the fact that when a girl does actually ask me out they are usually way too outgoing for me so its also somewhat that girls I would get along with are usually just as shy).

One example that springs to mind is the double standard that a woman can not sexually harass/assault a man.

This one is one of the actual serious differences that are out there. This, the fact that you basically never see a girl accused of statutory rape, and the way men can be in general more easily treated as being the bad guys most of the time. Case in point, my Uncle had a lover who got pregnant (way before he was married) and his lover decided that because she didn't want to share the kid or something (I don't know the details) she falsely accused him of abusing her so that she could get away while the authorities kept him from seeing her or even being told about the kid. Years later he is recently married and suddenly the kid shows up and throws a wrench into the whole thing (turned out perfectly fine however and the kid, it seems, is nothing like her mom).

 

[oppp7]

Ya, in times of emergency. The chances of that are moderately slim. And considering feminist groups have tried to get them to add girls, I think if they were deperate enough to reinstate the draft (likely political suicide if not for a very good reason) I doubt it would be long before they did add women.

You cannot dismiss it with "feminists have tried to change that". It hasn't been changed, and it's still a requirement that men sign up.

I know the odds aren't high that it'll come back (well you never know) but it's there and the fact that the government has the option to basically enslave men into service is screwed up.

I can think of tons of male characters that aren't sex-crazed brutes.

I can do that with any trope you care to name, sexist or not. Yeah you don't find such characters in say Tarantino movies but you can still find that message all the time.

For example

I guess I should clarify as women are much more likely to be targeted for certain types of violence (rape), and in the case of spousal abuse they're more likely to be injured.

Fair enough.

I don't, but between the likelyhood it won't happen and the likelyhood women will get it reversed by the time it does it's a small factor compared to other issues.

And ya, there are a lot of examples of that, but there are more examples of good male characterization. Women might have a better ratio of good characters to bad, but there are a lot more male characters (at least in the stuff I deal with (video games, movies...)).

 

[dickywebster]

In some areas its the same if not worse, some it has had the tables turned, but i think it balances out to be fairer but still in the favour of men, dont believe me? Do and look up the numbers for people running countries or big corps, more women than before, but still majority of men.

As for everyday life, it does depend, sometimes its easier to be one sex, sometimes the other.

 

[BRex21]

since when does a guy who works in a ware house/drives a forklift make more than some high powered exectuive....how is a guy who works in an office going to die?

Im still not getting your reasoning, see to me its got nothing to do with the drive to make money, heres how I see it

how does one die in a workplace?

if he is doing dangerus things..what are dangerous things? well machinery, tools, chemicals abd such can be dangerous...if youre not careful and if you have accidents

who is MORE LIKLEY to work with such things? MEN...why is this? I think because they are more inclined that way..they are more physically able

Okay, since i already posted a study explaining all of this im going to assume it just went over your head so im gonna try and break this down into bite sized segments showing the problems with our typical workplaces.

Person A is in the lowest bracket of education lets say hes a forklift operator.
Person B is in the lowest bracket of education lets say she is a secretary.
Person A will make more money than person B while person B has a safer more comfortable work environment. Typically Person A's job is staffed by men while Person B's job is staffed by women. So pay gap explained by men accepting more danger.

Another example is say community college educated people.
Person A becomes an electrician.
Person B becomes a nurse.
Again since more men are electricians and more women are nurses and electricians work in more dangerous less comfortable environments men earn more than women.

Lets look at the university level.
Person A is an electrical engineer
Person B is an English major.
Now despite most universities having affirmative action policies that demand a variety of benefits including, lower requirements for women, special tutelage, preferential placement for women or spots specifically reserved for women, lower tuition/scholarships/free admission for women, separate grading curves so they don't have to compete with men, engineering is still a heavily male dominated field, and its one of the highest paying. Whereas women tend to dominate in things like arts degrees and, and a masters in english is probably not going to land you a six figure salary. This is an instance where personal choice dictates the wage gap.

Now lets look at doctors.
Doctor A is a surgeon.
Doctor B is a pediatrician.
Pediatrics is divided almost equally between the sexes while less than 20% of surgeons are women. Surgeons make more because they perform a high stress delicate life or death operations, while pediatricians generally stay open for business hours and treat minor issues. Men are taking harder jobs in order to earn more money.

This does not mean that a forklift operator will make more than a pediatrician, simply that at virtually every level women choose quality of life and men choose money. However there is a strong voice saying women should make the same amount as men while ignoring these differences. What their argument boils down to is that women think they should be able to earn as much for doing less work and working in safer environments. You see if a man is more likely to die at work that's his choice but if a woman earns less that's sexism.

As for everyday life, it does depend, sometimes its easier to be one sex, sometimes the other.

This is very true, you can't break this down to what sex has what worse without making other qualifiers. However we tend to ignore the mechanics of womens problems (and mens problems in general).

In some areas its the same if not worse, some it has had the tables turned, but i think it balances out to be fairer but still in the favour of men, dont believe me? Do and look up the numbers for people running countries or big corps, more women than before, but still majority of men.

Does the fact that the last winner of the Indy 500 was a white male mean that I am more likely to win it next year than say, a Hispanic woman? Or are the odds of that determined largely by the likelihood that we will try?
Typically in the western world women have a much higher likelihood of getting elected if they run than men, but since so few do run they still make up a small minority. Its not a matter of institutional sexism, but rather a lack of ambition by women.
Its largely the same in the business world, typically women have other priorities and aren't willing to make the sacrifices that it takes to get to the top.