Sexual liberation

[Hagi]

I merely copied Blood Brain on the 360 degrees, but you're correct that's indeed not true.

I have no idea on basic human "programming". I do not believe we know enough about the way our brains work to come anywhere close to being able to make substantiated statements about our programming such as you're making. In that way it is the same as some imaginary friend, neither is substantiated by any empirical evidence because we, currently, do not have the means to back either statement up.

There is simply too much we don't know about how our brains work, about our own psychology, in order to make any reasonable statements about what exactly it is that drives all behavior.

But just because we don't know does not mean that you can start filling in the gaps with whatever you come up with in random discussions with your room mate.

Wow. Simply wow.
You don't believe more than 100 years of extensive studies have uncovered most of what our mind and personality consists of?
Simple question before we continue.
How much percents of brain average person uses?

100%

If you think otherwise please proceed to the nearest surgeon and have the part you're not using surgically removed, it's only wasting oxygen. I mean if you're not using it any way why not just cut it out? No harm done.

And you think we know most of what our mind and personality consist of? Are you serious?

Psychology is one of the most hotly debated fields in science with a vastness of conflicting opinions and theories.

Please tell me you're somehow goading me into saying something and you don't believe human psychology is somehow done. That we understand it all. That we've almost uncovered all there is to know. Because that's far beyond ignorance. That's wilful stupidity.

 

[blackrave]

100%

If you think otherwise please proceed to the nearest surgeon and have the part you're not using surgically removed, it's only wasting oxygen. I mean if you're not using it any way why not just cut it out? No harm done.

And you think we know most of what our mind and personality consist of? Are you serious?

Psychology is one of the most hotly debated fields in science with a vastness of conflicting opinions and theories.

Please tell me you're somehow goading me into saying something and you don't believe human psychology is somehow done. That we understand it all. That we've almost uncovered all there is to know. Because that's far beyond ignorance. That's willful stupidity.

I never said that we know ALL, but not as little as some here tries to convince me.
I'm pretty sure most of the main components of mind are already known.
What is problematic is figuring out how exactly they work together (or sometimes at all)
Closest analogy I can think of is black holes.
We know that they exist and even how they effect surrounding space and time, but we don't know how they exactly work (disclaimer for those who like to make false assumptions: this isn't 100% precise analogy).

 

[Vault101]

Why? What is so stupid in having moral point of view on sexual relationship?

as logn as its personal...nothing...I guess


[quote/]
There are plenty of guys out there who also had multiple partners, go hook up with them.[/quote]
what?...whats this got to do with anything?

my point is I just find your crieteria a little...odd...even if they are from actual relationships thats not good enough...

Too bad, it isn't that big a thing to evaluate you current partner from that point of view
And if you can't see a future with him/her I don't see any good reason to continue relationship

and why do you feel you have the right to dictate what I do and don't do?...do you aporach every potential mate with "can I spend the rest of my life with her?..how many babie can she have?" you should at least give it some time before you start choosing baby names

I would just prefer to take it as it comes


[quote/]Never said about masturbation being evil, but being indifferent to one you have in your arms at the moment seems sick and wrong (wrongsick?).[/quote]
why does it bother you so much?...

[quote/]Maybe you give extra thought about your one night stands, but most people don't. For them it is just a way to release an urges, and nothing more.[/quote]
I dont do one night stands.....I'm not that kind of person, and if releasing of urged bothers you so much then..well thats your probelm


[quote/]You can consider humanity as some sort of jewel of nature.
But I personally prefer thinking of it in less optimistic way.[/quote]

and thats kind of sad

 

[M920CAIN]

If you need to have sex to be sexual liberated I guess I'm out of this category.
ForeverAlone huh?

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Yes. No wait, no... Maybe? I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean for me.

For the most part I don't give a damn.

 

[Hagi]

100%

If you think otherwise please proceed to the nearest surgeon and have the part you're not using surgically removed, it's only wasting oxygen. I mean if you're not using it any way why not just cut it out? No harm done.

And you think we know most of what our mind and personality consist of? Are you serious?

Psychology is one of the most hotly debated fields in science with a vastness of conflicting opinions and theories.

Please tell me you're somehow goading me into saying something and you don't believe human psychology is somehow done. That we understand it all. That we've almost uncovered all there is to know. Because that's far beyond ignorance. That's willful stupidity.

I never said that we know ALL, but not as little as some here tries to convince me.
I'm pretty sure most of the main components of mind are already known.
What is problematic is figuring out how exactly they work together (or sometimes at all)
Closest analogy I can think of is black holes.
We know that they exist and even how they effect surrounding space and time, but we don't know how they exactly work (disclaimer for those who like to make false assumptions: this isn't 100% precise analogy).

The main components of the mind aren't already known. There's countless questions left unanswered and with every single one we do answer ten more arise.

We do know a great deal. That is until you realize the absolute vastness and complexity of the human mind.

Your black hole analogy has merit. We know a lot about the universe. Hundreds of thousands of books full of information. Yet that's only estimated to explain around 4% of all there is. 96% we haven't the faintest clue about. And in that 96% might just be hidden that we're totally wrong about how much there is and it turns out it's 99,96% we don't know instead.

Even when we know 99,99%. That last 0,01% could turn everything upside down, add an entirely new variable to the system that alters every equation.

That's not to say we can't make theories even when we don't know everything. But it does mean we have to be very careful about substantiating these theories on actual empirical evidence rather than baseless assumptions.

 

[Hap2]

Sexually liberated? I don't know what that means. I've experimented much in the past two years, but I can't say its created any interest beyond a philosophical one for sexuality.

I'm not interested in women; I'm not interested in men; I'm not interested in pursuing a sexual relationship with anybody or anything. I don't have any built-in desire to have sex, its as alien to my being as breathing liquid chlorine. I can't help any of this (hell knows I've tried) it's just how I am.

I'm getting tired of hearing "you'll like it when you try it" (already been there), "you'll grow out of it" (I'm 24, not 14), "you're just saying that to get attention" (you're the one who brought it up, not me) whenever someone asks why I don't have/want a girlfriend/boyfriend.

The only sexual liberation I need is for some people to open their minds to the idea that not everyone needs or wants a sexual relationship.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

"water boils at 100 degrees...unless it doesn't".

Yup, it does. On Mars water boils at 10 degrees. Even on very high altitudes on our own planet it does not boil exactly at 100 degrees, but at a slightly lower temperature. So yeah, water boils at 100 degrees... unless it doesn't.

New observations followed by an adjustment on the theory of boiling water. Science. It's wonderful isn't it.

I knew you'd bring up this red herring. You should have known I meant at normal pressure, and I'm sure you did.

 

[Kopikatsu]

i'll dig through the data for you, since you seem incapable of it yourself, but regarding pregnancy: you realize that, even taking time off to give birth to a child, a woman in the United States is NOT guaranteed her job back? And in fact that taking time off to give birth is used as an excuse to fire someone? That is sexist, because of the nature of giving birth and firing someone for what is a natural biological process is not to be accepted.

It's not sexist, it's a matter of practicality. If you take maternity leave, your job doesn't magically do itself. They have to hire and train a replacement for you on top of paying the maternity leave for states that have it. Once you're 'ready' to come back to work...what's the point? They already replaced you. Unless you were doing significantly better than the new worker, there's no reason to keep you on anymore.

Let's say that I decided I needed to have an assistant to help me because I decided I can handle five jobs at once with an extra pair of hands around (Since I'm an independent contractor of sorts) and two people applied for the job; a man and a woman. Both of their resumes are equally acceptable and there doesn't seem to be any noticeable difference in their work ethic. ...I'm going to choose the guy every time (The US doesn't recognize paternity leave as a thing). If men and women are as equal as many claim they are, then the only significant difference between them is pregnancy...so men are going to be preferable as workers. If the guy ends up not working out, then I'll give the woman a chance...but that's just it. She'll always be the second choice, regardless of her whether or not she says she wants to have a child at that point in time. If I needed an assistant to keep up in my work, and she goes off for 6-8 weeks, then I'm going to have to hire someone else- but they wouldn't have been trained. So while I'm doing that, the work starts to pile up and I fall behind...which is bad, because I have very strict deadlines to adhere to.

Anyway, moral of the story: If there is really no significant difference between men and women as far as capability/competency goes...then it's more practical to take men because they don't get 6-8 weeks of mandatory paid leave. You can call it sexism if you want, but if I were looking for an employee, I'd be looking for the best investment for my money...and if all other things are equal, you're not going to get that from a woman.

Small sidenote: If the woman in question is infertile then it wouldn't matter because she couldn't get pregnant anyway. But that's not really an appropriate question for a potential employer to ask.

 

[Vault101]

Unless you were doing significantly better than the new worker, there's no reason to keep you on anymore.

so its eather children or work?...somtimes its not even a choice for people..they NEED the money

[quote/] snip.[/quote]

THATS...FUCKING...BULLSHIT

its discrimination, YOU DO NOT KNOW if she has plans to be pregnant, some girl doesnt want kids TOO BAD because employer doesnt know that, its denying somone a job based on personal assumptions


[quote/]If there is really no significant difference between men and women as far as capability/competency goes...[/quote]
that shouldnt even be a fucking question thankyouverymuch

 

[Schadrach]

Kinda like car insurance, men are statistically more likely to crash so all of them have to pay more.

Worth noting that women are more likely to crash, men tend to crash more destructively however. A couple or three fender benders is still cheaper than a single total loss, though.

 

[SextusMaximus]

I think there's a MAJOR difference here.

When a guy cheated on his wife, he was slapped around a few times.
When a girl cheated on her husband, she/is stoned to death.

Wait... hold on, what the fuck are you talking about?

 

[Jenvas1306]

well i feel like im more free about my sexuality as a lot of women, also cause i was never raised to be the nice pure girl. infact i wasnt raised as a girl as im TG. so i had to fight other things than social obstacles to live out my ysexuality, i had to fight myself.

so now with my bf, im greatly enjoying my possibilities. but sex is still something for me that requires love.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Unless you were doing significantly better than the new worker, there's no reason to keep you on anymore.

so its eather children or work?...somtimes its not even a choice for people..they NEED the money

I didn't say that women should never be hired. In countries where where is no paid maternity leave or there is also paternity leave, then the gender doesn't matter because they'll either not get time or of both will get time off. But in countries where paid maternity leave exists without the male equivalent, then they shouldn't be. Funny how positive discrimination works.

THATS...FUCKING...BULLSHIT

its discrimination, YOU DO NOT KNOW if she has plans to be pregnant, some girl doesnt want kids TOO BAD because employer doesnt know that, its denying somone a job based on personal assumptions

It's not personal assumptions. Unless she's infertile, then the potential is still there whether she willingly sets out ot do so, and she can change her mind besides.

If there is really no significant difference between men and women as far as capability/competency goes...

that shouldnt even be a fucking question thankyouverymuch

If men and women are equal in all other fields, then women are lesser provided that only maternity leave exists. I just spent like three paragraphs explaining that.

 

[jklinders]

Liberated can be such a vaguely defined term. We are at liberty to play whatever music we want to but if it is above a certain decibel level then we can face fines if people complain about it. Why do I bring this up? It is because in most "bills of rights" there are stipulations that you have a right to your rights as long as you do not interfere with the rights of others. We have freedom of speech for example but just try to yell "fire" in a crowded theater and see how long it takes for someone to throw your ass in jail. So there are reasonable limits to freedoms that are already built into our laws.

However even under that standard things are pretty wonky about sex.It is OK to have an 80s action flick on at any hour of any day on any channel with all manner of violence, killing and dismemberment but you can't even find soft core porn unless it is on PPV or the internet. that's a pretty fucked up set of values for protecting the innocence of children or whatever. I blame religion which historically has needed it's adherents willing to commit violence in it's name but also historically needed to control it's population's breeding habits.

This does not even touch the gender differences in accepted behavior which also has it's origins partially I think in religion but mainly in some fucked up ancient need for a man to marry a virgin where the reverse was never required. Men and women should feel equally free to explore their sexuality but they don't. A man who sleeps around gets called "you dawg" by his friends, gets back slaps and beer. A woman is called a slut for the same. Fuck that. Just. Fuck. That.

Still I think there should be some reasonable controls on sexual conduct like there is elsewhere. Public nudity=fine. The human body is really a beautiful thing. Why hide it? Sex in public? Let's talk about that first before we start seeing folks doing it on the street while I'm walking to work

 

[blackrave]

what?...whats this got to do with anything?

my point is I just find your criteria a little...odd...even if they are from actual relationships that's not good enough...

Because point of my original post was that I most probably would deny girl who had plenty of sexual contacts, but that doesn't mean that I would ignore her or consider her as some sort of threat to society (in this case I wouldn't speak with my sister and brother, and at least 3/4 of my colleagues).
And yes, I'm pretty odd

and why do you feel you have the right to dictate what I do and don't do?...do you approach every potential mate with "can I spend the rest of my life with her?..how many babies can she have?" you should at least give it some time before you start choosing baby names

I would just prefer to take it as it comes

Whaaaaat?
Did I missed something here? Like an episode, where I'm traveling across Atlantic ocean, finding where you live, handcuffing you, putting towel on you face, pouring water over and screaming that you will not have one night stands? I'm sure that never happened, so don't worry about me dictating you anything

Also, while I don't asking myself about babies, I'm asking myself "can I spend the rest of my life with her?" often, and at this point I found only one girl who I could my whole live with. We are really good friends since highschool. She's awesome


[quote/]why does it bother you so much?...[/quote]

That's actually really good question. I don't know. There are some things that just seems wrong. Like wasted potential, false stupidity and not caring about your sexual partner. I feel that it isn't right and things shouldn't be happening like this.


[quote/]I don't do one night stands.....I'm not that kind of person, and if releasing of urged bothers you so much then..well that's your problem[/quote]

Yes.

and that's kind of sad

No, not as bad as you may think.
I once believed that humans were made for greatness.
15 years of words, actions and bullshit later I don't believe in this anymore.
And if I don't care, you shouldn't either.

The main components of the mind aren't already known. There's countless questions left unanswered and with every single one we do answer ten more arise.

We do know a great deal. That is until you realize the absolute vastness and complexity of the human mind.

Your black hole analogy has merit. We know a lot about the universe. Hundreds of thousands of books full of information. Yet that's only estimated to explain around 4% of all there is. 96% we haven't the faintest clue about. And in that 96% might just be hidden that we're totally wrong about how much there is and it turns out it's 99,96% we don't know instead.

Even when we know 99,99%. That last 0,01% could turn everything upside down, add an entirely new variable to the system that alters every equation.

That's not to say we can't make theories even when we don't know everything. But it does mean we have to be very careful about substantiating these theories on actual empirical evidence rather than baseless assumptions.

I have nothing against such approach.
But everything I have read, seen, learned and experienced to this point indicates that I'm mostly right. And I wouldn't exchange this depressing assumption for a hope that maybe some tiny discovery will suddenly turn shit into chocolate pudding.

P.S. I just noticed that I was correcting your grammar mistakes all the time we were arguing. Is it bad or good? Should I stop?
P.P.S. Also DOORFIGHTER!!!

 

[Hagi]

I have nothing against such approach.
But everything I have read, seen, learned and experienced to this point indicates that I'm mostly right. And I wouldn't exchange this depressing assumption for a hope that maybe some tiny discovery will suddenly turn shit into chocolate pudding.

P.S. I just noticed that I was correcting your grammar mistakes all the time we were arguing. Is it bad or good? Should I stop?
P.P.S. Also DOORFIGHTER!!!

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. I think I've seen enough complexity in human behaviour to believe we're not so easily explained.

As for grammar mistakes, are you sure you're not using American English whilst I'm using U.K. English? Don't think I made many, if any, and my spelling-checker agrees. Then again, it is a second language.

 

[Jenvas1306]

Wanna take a trip with me? an excursion into realms you only step into late at night with lots of moutain dew and a head full of surpressed madness?

you have been warned.

at some point in humanities history, men and women became equal. technology made it unnecessary to have any physical abilities, so has humankind degraded to brains wih biological life support. male and female not distinguishable anymore.
reproduction only happened in numbers that were necessary, keeping a society allways just as big as it needs to be. genetic material from donors or just gene banks was mixed again and again, composing new humans. those were raised in facilities, by robots and andriods that gave them everything necessary, a feat that a lot of parents failed in the primitive third millennia.
every individual started from the same base, the social status of ones parents would not matter, only personal effort and genetic talent.

unbound from biological roles, premade advantages or the need to put effort and time in the upbringing of the next generation society evolved, so did technology and the terran emperium raised. colonies were send out, equiped with technology and genes, to travel centuries and claim new worlds.
those worlds with inteligent life, but without defenses would be conquered, and the rest that resisted would fear the mighty terran invaders...

 

[Kopikatsu]

Wanna take a trip with me? an excursion into realms you only step into late at night with lots of moutain dew and a head full of surpressed madness?

you have been warned.

at some point in humanities history, men and women became equal. technology made it unnecessary to have any physical abilities, so has humankind degraded to brains wih biological life support. male and female not distinguishable anymore.
reproduction only happened in numbers that were necessary, keeping a society allways just as big as it needs to be. genetic material from donors or just gene banks was mixed again and again, composing new humans. those were raised in facilities, by robots and andriods that gave them everything necessary, a feat that a lot of parents failed in the primitive third millennia.
every individual started from the same base, the social status of ones parents would not matter, only personal effort and genetic talent.

unbound from biological roles, premade advantages or the need to put effort and time in the upbringing of the next generation society evolved, so did technology and the terran emperium raised. colonies were send out, equiped with technology and genes, to travel centuries and claim new worlds.
those worlds with inteligent life, but without defenses would be conquered, and the rest that resisted would fear the mighty terran invaders...

I have to ask why a society would go so far into making humanity 'perfect' and not also practice eugenics (Since you mentioned that genetics would determine one's place in this fantasy world).

I mean, in Brave New World they explained the reason for having grades lower than A because somebody needed to do the dirty work that the A's were considered too good for. But if you have machines doing all of those jobs, why not just remove all genetic imperfections?

 

[Lorien077]

I'll feel liberated when I'm not villianized for not wanting sex. When I'm not treated as subhuman for my orientation by my peers and the doctors I go to seeking help.

Sorry. Just kind of bitter.