Sexuality, Diversity, Coming out

[Coppernerves]

When we are talking about 'power-fantasies', or maybe rather just fantasies, well...
Skyrim had lot of issues and the marriage system wasn't implemented well, but it was a really appealing fantasy for me to play a female character who is married to another woman and no-one cares.
.

last weekend I did nothing but play the sims 2

I made a lesbian couple (one based on Piper and Alex from OITNB) haing them make out and snuggle in bed with each other was basically porn for me

.....[sub/]yeeeeaaaaaah[/sub]

I am somewhat disturbed by how hot Alex seemed to me when she was threatening to rape someone, did you put "evil" among her personality traits?

To OP, I'd say coming out as gay, lesbian, or bi can be handy if you'd like to get in a relationship with someone of the same sex as you, since you're straight unless stated otherwise, they won't know you're available unless you come out.

If you're trans, coming out allows you to start the inevitable conversation about it upon your own terms, rather than it occurring whenever people happen to notice that you're growing a pair of tits.

 

[Vault101]

I am somewhat disturbed by how hot Alex seemed to me when she was threatening to rape someone, did you put "evil" among her personality traits?
.

I don't know what it is about Alex...mabye its the glasses

and my brother said he thought she was kind of scary...so maybe that says something

 

[Bestival]

There's also the whole thing to be said about how suicide rates, especially for teens, are much higher for LGBTs. It's been theorized that such teens seeing their idols come out can help them a lot with their feelings of not belonging, and for this reason I always approve of celebrities coming out.
They can make as big of a media circus out of it that they want, if it stops even 1 kid from killing themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

 

[Skatologist]

Spoiler: I used to have a similar view on the issue until I realized how dangerous it can be to be open

Context: A Washington DC school principal came out to his students months ago, saying athletes like Michael Sam and Jason Collins gave him strength to come out.

 

[Something Amyss]

I cant imagine the pressure young people feel to " identify " what and who they are so they can label themselves instead of just living as who they are.

Try imagining being part of a group that has been demonised for years and years. Try imagining still being demonised by a large portion of the world. That's reality for a load of people you appear to be dismissing for wishing to be validated.

Hell, the fact that there was such a recent and loud controversy about a football (US) player kissing his boyfriend on TV should be an indication of how much of an issue still exists. Same-sex marriage is still controversial, and not just in the US. Apparently, Thorpe can't get married, and he's your example. Religious groups argue that bullying gays is a religious freedom, and gender identity is not always protected.

Imagine that pressure for a while.

Because it really, really sucks.

I wish people would stop telling us that things like coming out are dated. It's like telling black people racism is over. LGBT folks have a significantly higher than normal suicide rate because of the realities that surround sexuality and gender identity. I've buried people for that exact reason and I've even been on that side of the coin. I still sometimes find myself thinking I'd rather be dead that deal with all the crap that goes along with being a member of certain minorities.

It's been over twenty years since Brian Grillo wrote "Every morning before I hop the bus I say to myself 'who can I trust?'" and for a lot of people, that hasn't changed.

Really, this just comes off as dismissive.

I especially love the "I don't have a problem with gays as long as hey don't shove it down our throats...[sub/]like existing..seriously why do they have to do that? why can't they just not exist like normal people?[/sub]

This is indeed a problem.

I think half the disdain for those who identify as "bi" is people don't like it when they cant be put in a box...

I think it's more a basic lack of empathy. For whatever reason. People have trouble with anything they can't personally relate to. This is where a lot of the basic stigma around gays comes from in the first place. Unfortunately, a lot of gays can't imagine being interested in both sexes, either, and fall into the same trap.

I don't think it's about labels as much as "being like us."

I don't get it, personally, but it is a thing.

You mean today's culture where a vast majority of countries still haven't legalized gay marriage and prohibit gay couples from adopting. Where most gay couples aren't able to hold hands in public without getting funny looks or snide comments.
To be honest, I don't see why some people get their knickers in a bunch over the different classifications. I'll admit that I've rolled my eyes at a few of the more obscure or abstract ones but they don't personally affect me or bother me so people can identify in whatever way they choose.

In the states, we still have large portions of the country that have issues with "mixed" couples holding hands. From my seat, I don't see gays being normalised for quite some time.

Also, conservative talking heads pitched a fit when the state of Vermont added gender identity to the discrimination laws. This is one of the few states that explicitly prohibits discrimination, and people flipped their lids over it. Hell, Bill O'Riley moaned about it. National news because we had the audacity to treat transfolk like...*gasp*...People.

I don't feel the need to belittle them by making "LGBTQBBQWTFOMG special snowflake" jokes. I'm not directing this at OP specifically, just in general.

I've never got this anyway. I was still seeing people complaining about the Facebook gender options like a month ago. And it's like, how the hell does this affect you?

Yeah, It would be nice if no-one cared about this stuff.

When we are talking about 'power-fantasies', or maybe rather just fantasies, well...
Skyrim had lot of issues and the marriage system wasn't implemented well, but it was a really appealing fantasy for me to play a female character who is married to another woman and no-one cares.

Because I don't get that in real life.

Kind of weird this is coming up right as there's another Gaymer con story and there's a bunch of people starting in on the "I don't see why this is necessary/desirable/whatever" and "why do you want to segregate yourselves?" But perhaps fitting.

There's also when personal documents get changed and such.

And it's very hard to live in society and not have some sort of impact related to sexuality and gender identity. I mean, it's great (I guess) for you if you have no romantic ties (in the case of either) or no strong feelings with regard to gender, but...for the most part, these are going to have to be dealt with. Even if you don't label yourself, really.

And now that this thread has stressed me out, I think I'll go scream along to some Extra Fancy.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Along with the general sense in this thread I think it's also a good idea to mention that sometimes (most times?) it's better to out yourself. Sure it can make for something of an awkward public moment even if you're not a celebrity when someone comes out, but that's still a lot better than getting outed by someone else. It's not just you expressing to the world who you really are but it's also about you choosing the place and time to make that expression.

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

Maintaining visibility of these issues is still necessary in this day and age, almost more so than ever. Stopping now would be like accepting surgery with a butcher knife simply because you talked the doctor out of using a chainsaw.

I, for one, still like hearing about celebrities who come out. Their public stature can potentially change minds when people find out that someone they like just happens to be not-straight, and yet, that trait doesn't diminish the abilities that made the celebrity endearing. Unfortunately, bisexuals and the trans spectrum aren't benefiting from these pronouncements like lesbians and gays have. Hopefully in time (and hopefully in the VERY near future) that will turn around with continued social awareness of the issues we all face in society. Quit now and progress ceases for us all.

This isn't a magic bullet though, and I know that firsthand. When I came out, I lost half of my family - not right away, but after years of declining relations that had almost everything to do with my sexual preference. The rest had to do with their unwavering embrace of every -ism you can conjure (we're talking KKK levels of hatred). No amount of social awareness would ever change their minds, nor would it change the minds of others like them. That's another reason why awareness needs to continue, so that our issues aren't drowned out by the voices of people who despise our very existence.

 

[Lieju]

I think it's more a basic lack of empathy. For whatever reason. People have trouble with anything they can't personally relate to. This is where a lot of the basic stigma around gays comes from in the first place. Unfortunately, a lot of gays can't imagine being interested in both sexes, either, and fall into the same trap.

I don't think it's about labels as much as "being like us."

I don't get it, personally, but it is a thing.

Also, I think that when it comes to marginalized groups, they often want to present an unified front.
So there's the fear of that if people identify as pansexuals for example it will just serve to confuse the public, and it would be better if everyone identified as the same, as long as their goals are about the same.

I've seen arguments that identifying as bisexual is harmful because it let's anti-gay people point to them and say 'see? gays can be cured! You just aren't trying hard enough!', and also arguments that everyone is actually bisexual and it'd be best if we all identified as such.

Then as far as LGBT+ goes, lumping gender identity and sexual orientation together causes a host of other issues. Since while gays and transpeople for example face the same kinds of issues (if only because many non-LGBT people think they're the same, and a lot of transphobia is rooted in homophobia) the support they need also differs.

There are a lot of different reasons why there's this kind of strife even within the LGBT+ community, although I think it's in big part because they are a s a whole marginilazed and so under lot of stress.

And afraid of discussing some problems they do have in the fear of people from the outside taking advantage of it.

(This goes for any social groups, especially ones that feel threatened.)

 

[Sevre]

I don't really get why we should be celebrating diversity instead of celebrating what we have n common.

Diversity is not seen as a virtue because it provides some tokenistic sense of moral superiority. Diversity is seen as a virtue because it is genuinely beneficial to society.

A great example of this is in corporate boardrooms, there has been a huge drive in the past 10 years to bring people of different backgrounds into executive positions because it provides fresh perspectives for businesses. Now, obviously, most corporate boardrooms still consist of old, straight, white men from affluent backgrounds, but the winds of change can be seen in many boardrooms, from tech start-ups to old law firms. Businesses do not do this to feel morally superior, they do it because those new perspectives can increase profit margins.

Humans have a lot in common, but pretending that we're all cut from the same cloth is a great way to obtain the sort of tunnel vision that hurts those of us who are different. And the thing is we're all different.

 

[Nemu]

Why cant people just " be " if you gay straight or any variation you should just be and not need to " come out " as the old term.

Well, there's the thing. It shouldn't be a big deal in an ideal world, but sometimes it is.

Family members may freak out (or even disown the person). Friends may freak out. Co-workers may freak out. A lot of people will change how they act around you.

"Coming out" is a very emotional and scary thing to do, and people usually do it very cautiously, because they're terrified of the response they may get.

Perfect response, and, in my life, a reality.

It's not easy to just "be" sometimes, because it's not always safe for people to do so. It's getting better, for sure, but violence and shunning are very much still a fact of life for non-straight folks. I have not spoken to the majority of my family on my father's side because they are simply from another time (socially). Quite literally, he was on his death bed and his sister-in-law told my cousin not to stay too long visiting with me in the room, because she apparently thought that lesbianism is an airborne virus.


People will still need to "come out" until threads like these no longer happen. Because some people don't "get" gay folks/issues (as an umbrella term), these questions still need to be answered, sadly. Eventually it will change, probably within the current or next generation, but until then, education, acceptance and tolerance is important.

 

[Nemu]

Also, conservative talking heads pitched a fit when the state of Vermont added gender identity to the discrimination laws. This is one of the few states that explicitly prohibits discrimination, and people flipped their lids over it. Hell, Bill O'Riley moaned about it. National news because we had the audacity to treat transfolk like...*gasp*...People.

A fellow Vermonter! /salute

 

[Nickolai77]

It's always going to be assumed that a person is heterosexual and cisgendered because that's vast majority of the population are- it's the norm. As long as being heterosexual and cisgendered is the norm then deviating from this identity is by definition abnormal (I mean that purely in a descriptive sense) so "coming out" will always be a thing because unless one does come out then it's going to be assumed by everyone that you're a cisgendered heterosexual.

And likewise, if you ever find yourself in a bar or club that caters to lesbians or gays, and you're heterosexual, you may have to "come out" as someone who's straight because in such an environment it's assumed you're not.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

OP, you sound naïve as fuck if you think people don?t care about whether or not someone?s gay anymore. If that was the case, same-sex marriage would be legal in every country with upheld human rights laws, lesbians wouldn?t still be getting raped in Somalia, and trans people would be free to tell their partners the sex they were born as without fear of getting beaten up and/or killed for it. It?s better Thorpe comes out than some trashy tabloid doing it for him and getting the facts messed up in the first place. Even when Tom Daley came out as bi, some of the papers reported it as gay, ?cos people still have a mindset of ?straight? or ?gay?.

I still annoyingly see comments on a video about Poison from Final Fight adamantly claiming that ?no matter what, it?s a man? ?cos they?re so immature they can?t get over the fight they might?ve been attracted to someone with a dick. Gender, sex, ethnicity, and religion are still things that are very important to some people, even if it?s become less so over the years. Human beings are near-impressively resistant to social change. We?re a long way from true ?equality?.

 

[Nimcha]

It's not really about 'not caring'. I still come out on an almost monthly basis and that's just because people assume I'm straight and I don't want to lie. So when people inquire about my boyfriend (or husband lately, it seems I'm getting old ) I do correct them and say I have a girlfriend instead. Most people indeed do not really care what gender my partner is, but I'm not going to hide the truth on the off chance of making someone uncomfortable.

 

[Skull Bearer]

People use labels because it's easier then to find others going through the same things you are, and being able to put a label on a part of yourself that had previously been incomprehensible is incredibly freeing. It can be very lonely, when you feel you're the only one who is attracted to the same gender/is attracted to both genders/is attracted to no one.

 

[shootthebandit]

People probably dont just decide overnight that they are gay. Its just natural to be straight because we are designed to reproduce. Im not saying its unnatural to be gay (far from it). Even if there was no cultural stigma i think for a lot of people (and correct me if im wrong) it still takes a while for them to realise they are gay themselves. Sure a lot of people know straight away that they are gay but for others it probably takes a bit longer to "come out".

For most people coming out is probably just letting your friends and family know but being a celebrity or public figure your private life is not private so the public find this stuff out. Its better from the horses mouth than from the tabloids

It says more about how vain our society is. People actually care about who these celebrities sleep with, if they are gay, what clothes they wear etc. Our society is disgusting really and I feel sorry for this bloke and I apologise on behalf of society that we put so much sexual pressure on people whether you are gay or straight and I also apologise that we need to almost publicly shame people for being gay. The only time it would be nice to know someones sexuality would be if a gay guy tried hitting on me or if i was hitting on a lesbian. It would be awkward but it would be just as awkward as hitting on someone who wasnt interested.

 

[lacktheknack]

Am I the only one that sees the whole " Coming out of the closet "
Something of a past era with todays culture.

Put it this way:

A friend of mine had a minor breakdown and confided in me that he's gay, but will NEVER EVER come out of the closet to anyone else, and threatened the wrath of nine Hells if I told anyone else.

So no. It is not a "past era" by any means. At all.

 

[COMaestro]

As for the second part of your post, what's the problem with celebrating diversity?
The reason people apply labels is because they want to identify as part of a group. If you feel like an outcast from the social norm, aligning yourself to another group will make you feel less isolated or unusual.

There isn't really a problem with celebrating diversity, but I understand where the OP is coming from. I prefer the idea to celebrate unity, celebrate the fact that we are all human beings with feelings, emotions, dreams, desires, goals, etc. Celebrating diversity just puts a spotlight on the things that make us different from each other, creating an "us"/"them" division. It's divisions like that which make things like racism or sexism possible. If everyone could just ignore the things that make us different from each other, I think society as a whole would be much better for it.

There's nothing wrong with being proud of who you are or what you are, but it's really easy for some people to assign superiority to the group they associate with over outsiders.