Sexuality in gaming, your stance?

[zxvcasdfqwerzxcv]

In any good film, tv show, book, song or uses sexuality in context; only when it is needed. It should not be tacked on for sheer titillation, though neither should it be repressed if context calls for it. So I'm all for whatever level of sexuality in games, so long as it serves a purpose. If it doesn't it just feels tacked on, which brings the whole quality of the game down with it. If you have to tack on sex to sell your game, you've probably not made a very good game.

 

[LetalisK]

It's always funny how people react to other people's sexuality being catered for, though (think Anders hitting on you and many people's reaction to that).

Kind of off-topic, but I've found this be a bullshit complaint in the first place. I've been playing(read: plodding through) DA2 for the first time and one of the things I specifically looked for was this whole Anders debacle. However, I haven't been able to find a single instance where he was treated any differently in romance initiation. I kept hearing about how he gets foisted on to you, but it simple hasn't happened. My trick? Don't pick the big fucking heart conversation option. Hell, maybe it did happen somewhere, but if it did, it was utterly insignificant.

*cough* Sorry. >.>

 

[SlaveNumber23]

I honestly couldn't care less, although I definitely find the 'trying too hard' stuff to be extremely cringe-worthy. It doesn't make or break my enjoyment of a game though. That said, some of the simply ridiculous stuff could definitely ruin the tone of a game for me (imagine if Telltale's The Walking Dead had Soul Calibur's Ivy).

Characters like Ivy do absolutely nothing for me, they just look too ridiculous and stupid to have any attractive qualities at all. I'm more of an eyes/hair/face guy than a boobs or ass guy anyway, and I think its sexier when a reasonable amount is covered up and left to the imagination.

 

[Hagi]

I'm fine with pretty much anything.

Nothing against games employing titillation or even going way beyond that, no problem with sexualization of female characters ( or male ones, but that doesn't happen very often ).

Only thing I do have a problem with is a lack of variety. It shouldn't be as hard as it is now to find several games with female protagonists whom aren't sexualized. It shouldn't be as hard as it is now to find games with male protagonists who are blatantly and extremely sexualized.

I think in that aspect the medium still has a lot of growing to do, not just in character portrayal but also in more general. I think we could do with a hell lot more variety in genres, niches, characters, audiences etc.

 

[lapan]

Characters like Ivy do absolutely nothing for me, they just look too ridiculous and stupid to have any attractive qualities at all. I'm more of an eyes/hair/face guy than a boobs or ass guy anyway, and I think its sexier when a reasonable amount is covered up and left to the imagination.

I just find Ivys weapon interesting, if I'm playing fighting games chances are I've got no time to look at boobs anyways.
Also, the create a character mode allows to use her weapon while still playing a properly clothed woman or man

 

[Terminal Blue]

Kind of off-topic, but I've found this be a bullshit complaint in the first place. I've been playing(read: plodding through) DA2 for the first time and one of the things I specifically looked for was this whole Anders debacle. However, I haven't been able to find a single instance where he was treated any differently in romance initiation. I kept hearing about how he gets foisted on to you, but it simple hasn't happened. My trick? Don't pick the big fucking heart conversation option. Hell, maybe it did happen somewhere, but if it did, it was utterly insignificant.

I think the main "issue" there is that unless you are extremely careful in picking dialogue options you get a tiny rivalry shift from turning Anders down, and it's there regardless of whether you play a male or female Hawke.

From what I understand, people felt like in the case of a male Hawke you should have been able to say "no homo" and that should have removed any emotional consequences from the situation. You know, just like in real life. Because gay people are such a tiny minority they should expect their romantic intentions to always be rejected and should therefore never feel bad about it.

This is sexy:

I think what this illustrates is that you have a type, and it's a type I can see numerous problems with. Thus, I don't think you're successfully claiming any kind of high ground here because your argument is just "I don't find this sexy and that's a problem.. but I find this sexy and therefore it's not a problem".

Personally, I like breasts. They're probably my favourite thing about female bodies. However, I don't think that makes characters like Ivy any less of a problem.

The problem is the overall generally distorted appearance of women in games promotes an unrealistic and unobtainable image of what women actually look like. I've lived long enough to see enough women with fantastic bodies, but they still don't look like most female game characters. This is not just an issue of low self-esteem in women either, actually it strikes me as far more of a problem for men because it leads you to judge real people by the standards of fictional characters and thus degrades the quality of real sexual experience.

A game which is meant to be sexy probably shouldn't be making real life less sexy. You'd think it would actually supplement real life.

 

[Olas]

As someone who isn't even turned on by the stereotypical sexy female character, I find it painfully annoying whenever it's thrown in my face for no reason. I almost always hate fanservicey characters.

From a purely conceptual standpoint I don't have any inherent problem with sexualization. I see it just as an easy/lazy way to draw male interest. However I do wish the games/movies that use it would be honest and upfront about it, rather than playing innocent and acting like it's a coincidence that the girl's clothes got accidentally ripped off in combat. Every time I see something like that my eyes practically roll out of their sockets and I lose some respect for both the character, the story, and humanity.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Kind of off-topic, but I've found this be a bullshit complaint in the first place. I've been playing(read: plodding through) DA2 for the first time and one of the things I specifically looked for was this whole Anders debacle. However, I haven't been able to find a single instance where he was treated any differently in romance initiation. I kept hearing about how he gets foisted on to you, but it simple hasn't happened. My trick? Don't pick the big fucking heart conversation option. Hell, maybe it did happen somewhere, but if it did, it was utterly insignificant.

I think the main "issue" there is that unless you are extremely careful in picking dialogue options you get a tiny rivalry shift from turning Anders down, and it's there regardless of whether you play a male or female Hawke.

From what I understand, people felt like in the case of a male Hawke you should have been able to say "no homo" and that should have removed any emotional consequences from the situation. You know, just like in real life. Because gay people are such a tiny minority they should expect their romantic intentions to always be rejected and should therefore never feel bad about it.

This is sexy:

I think what this illustrates is that you have a type, and it's a type I can see numerous problems with. Thus, I don't think you're successfully claiming any kind of high ground here because your argument is just "I don't find this sexy and that's a problem.. but I find this sexy and therefore it's not a problem".

Personally, I like breasts. They're probably my favourite thing about female bodies. However, I don't think that makes characters like Ivy any less of a problem.

The problem is the overall generally distorted appearance of women in games promotes an unrealistic and unobtainable image of what women actually look like. I've lived long enough to see enough women with fantastic bodies, but they still don't look like most female game characters. This is not just an issue of low self-esteem in women either, actually it strikes me as far more of a problem for men because it leads you to judge real people by the standards of fictional characters and thus degrades the quality of real sexual experience.

A game which is meant to be sexy probably shouldn't be making real life less sexy. You'd think it would actually supplement real life.

From a female perspective, the least offensive pic in the OP probably is the bottom character (Ivy), as she is the only one that looks somewhat real. As a woman, I find the Anime eyes and the view we are "talking dolls" MORE offensive than the focus on our breasts.

Anime eyes IRL are just plain gross.

and honestly, having a guy stare at your breasts is actually better than them telling you that " you are like a little fiesty doll" The view of women here is the problem and the idea that guys think this is what women should be, or that this is even sexy is a part of the problem.

I do not mind sexuality in games, I am irritated to no end by portraying women as overly emotional high pitched voiced little dolls with giant insect like eyes. When a guy tells me how I am like a cute little doll, all I want to do at that point is kick him in the balls.

I have no idea why they can't just make women in games look like well, women:
http://www.mensfitness.com/women/galleries/top-10-sexiest-female-athletes-of-2013

 

[Phasmal]

It's always funny how people react to other people's sexuality being catered for, though (think Anders hitting on you and many people's reaction to that).

Kind of off-topic, but I've found this be a bullshit complaint in the first place. I've been playing(read: plodding through) DA2 for the first time and one of the things I specifically looked for was this whole Anders debacle. However, I haven't been able to find a single instance where he was treated any differently in romance initiation. I kept hearing about how he gets foisted on to you, but it simple hasn't happened. My trick? Don't pick the big fucking heart conversation option. Hell, maybe it did happen somewhere, but if it did, it was utterly insignificant.

*cough* Sorry. >.>

I think I remember him being a little flirty with my femHawke so I'll assume he does the same to manHawke, but I already had my eye on Fenris by then. Though I did romance him on another playthrough and found him a little needy.

But seriously, I've put up with so much boob-bouncing fanservice with a cheeky wink to the player over the years, and `YOU CARE ABOUT THIS WOMAN BECAUSE YOU FIND HER SEXY` when that's totally not what I'm `into`. So I think the people getting their panties in a twist can deal with a mage man giving you the quiet how-you-doin'.

However I can already see people in the thread doing the whole `Females don't play enough HARDCORE GAEMZ to have their opinions matter!`. Typical.

 

[King Zeal]

I don't understand this. Is not saying, "I don't don't want to play this game because (X reason)" not a criticism?

Also, what about people who buy games but don't like a specific thing about it? Shouldn't they also voice their opinion?

I think his point is, and it's probably a valid one, that a lot of people who criticise wouldn't buy the game anyway, even if their complaints were dealt with.

I'd use Twilight as an example. From what I've heard the romance in that book is bloody poor and sends shoddy messages about motherhood and sex and all that. I'm not going to go on a crusade about it though, because frankly, I wouldn't buy the bloody thing anyway.

Word of mouth works wonders, though. For example, how many people actually cared about My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic before people started talking about how awesome it was? Now it's a freaking phenomenon.

When I was younger, the same thing happened with Pokemon.

 

[The_Echo]

This is trying too hard:

Spoiler

Honestly, I've always found Ivy to be disgusting. Same with Anna from Tekken.

How anyone finds them attractive is beyond me.

OT: I... don't really... care at all? The characters can look however the artists want them to. I don't care as long as they look good.

The Dragon's Crown Sorceress [http://venturebeat.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/dragons-crown-sorceress-walking-animation.gif] looks good. Metal Gear Solid's Meryl [http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/4127/571181-meryl.png] looks good. The Last of Us' Ellie [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120122170345/thelastofus/images/e/e9/Ellie12.png] looks good. Spyro: Year of the Dragon's Bianca [http://spyropedia.com/images/b/b8/Biancarobe.jpg] looks good.

And any or all of those characters could look any other way, any way at all! So long as they look good.

Ivy's still fucking gross though.

 

[King Zeal]

The Sorceress is worse than Ivy too me, though. I can't imagine how much that jiggling hurts.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

This is trying too hard:

Spoiler

Honestly, I've always found Ivy to be disgusting. Same with Anna from Tekken.

How anyone finds them attractive is beyond me.

OT: I... don't really... care at all? The characters can look however the artists want them to. I don't care as long as they look good.

The Dragon's Crown Sorceress [http://venturebeat.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/dragons-crown-sorceress-walking-animation.gif] looks good. Metal Gear Solid's Meryl [http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/4127/571181-meryl.png] looks good. The Last of Us' Ellie [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120122170345/thelastofus/images/e/e9/Ellie12.png] looks good. Spyro: Year of the Dragon's Bianca [http://spyropedia.com/images/b/b8/Biancarobe.jpg] looks good.

And any or all of those characters could look any other way, any way at all! So long as they look good.

Ivy's still fucking gross though.

What about those two do you find disgusting? They have muscular legs wide hips? To me they just look like women, more like women than Dragons crown sorceress and that Spyro junk. LOL

I would think making the women appear more like women and more muscular if they are going to be considered athletic in games would be an improvement over the majority of what they have in there now. The Dragons crown idea of women is absurd.

EDIT:
I would rather them just make women look like women:
http://www.mensfitness.com/women/galleries/top-10-sexiest-female-athletes-of-2013

But then again, I think the vast majority of male characters just look gross.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

The Sorceress is worse than Ivy too me, though. I can't imagine how much that jiggling hurts.

I agree, I can't imagine trying to run with boobs like that, you would knock yourself out or break your nose. I had to tape mine down for gymnastics, but that just looks ridiculous.

 

[The_Echo]

What about those two do you find disgusting? They have muscular legs wide hips?

I think it's mainly in the face. Ever since I was a kid, I never liked how Anna's face or hair looked. Same with Ivy. Ivy looks too old for the rest of her body. It's gross.

that Spyro junk. LOL

I'll let that slide this time.

The Dragons crown idea of women is absurd.

I guess I'm not looking at these designs as "ideas of women." I'm just looking at them as designs. My qualifier is "Do I think it looks good? Y/N"

And of course what looks good to me is subjective, but there are also certain objective qualities to art. And I would argue to art in Dragon's Crown is objectively gorgeous, including the Sorceress (and Amazon, et al).

 

[Shadowstar38]

That argument doesn't work either, because people who would LIKE to be customers, but are excluded for whatever reason, have as much right to request a change. What you're claiming is like saying that Black people wouldn't have the right to ask that actors not do minstrel shows in Blackface, because they "aren't the target audience".

Dude. Please stop comparing purposely offensive or oppressive acts to our first world problems of not having good enough representation in our entertainment. It makes your argument look hyperbolic

 

[King Zeal]

Sexualization is not a first world problem. It happens at every level of society. Bad representation in media is bad representation, and still oppressive.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

As long as it isn't too in your face, I'm perfectly fine with most things. I mean, if I want to go watch something overly-sexualized and exploitative I'll go watch Kill la Kill. Just google image search it and you'll see what I mean.

I probably am not the first to talk about Kill la Kill but there is a decent counterargument to it just being fanservice but I do feel its a "having a cake and eating it situation"

this image does a better job to explain it

Kill La Kill explanation [http://i.imgur.com/DpG1VIk.jpg]

as for the OP, i'm an anime fan so sexy is not my main focus but cute. People like Noel Vermillion or Shirogane Naoto do more for me than Ivy because they have cute expressions and designs while bing an odd personality mix that is both strong (takes a lot to see it in Noel but it's there) and awkwardness.

 

[King Zeal]

I don't know, that Kill La Kill could easily be grasping at justification straws. "Girl gets put in sexy outfit against her will and has to deal with male gaze because of it" isn't exactly a unique plot. Especially in anime, where it's almost a default reaction.

In short, it's difficult to say something is "exploring" a theme when it plays the stereotypes associated with that theme unironically straight.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

As long as it isn't too in your face, I'm perfectly fine with most things. I mean, if I want to go watch something overly-sexualized and exploitative I'll go watch Kill la Kill. Just google image search it and you'll see what I mean.

I probably am not the first to talk about Kill la Kill but there is a decent counterargument to it just being fanservice but I do feel its a "having a cake and eating it situation"

this image does a better job to explain it

Kill La Kill explanation [http://i.imgur.com/DpG1VIk.jpg]

as for the OP, i'm an anime fan so sexy is not my main focus but cute. People like Noel Vermillion or Shirogane Naoto do more for me than Ivy because they have cute expressions and designs while bing an odd personality mix that is both strong (takes a lot to see it in Noel but it's there) and awkwardness.

The problem is Noel Vermillion or Shirogane Naoto are not people at all. They are not women, nor are they an accurate representation of women. They are cartoons like roger rabbit. Saying that one is attracted to Noel Vermillion or Shirogane Naoto is like saying someone is attracted to annoying orange or roger rabbit. They are not a representation of actual humans, no more than roger rabbit is a an actual male. Being attracted to actual males or females is different than being attracted to cartoons.