Sexuality in gaming, your stance?

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Are those first three even game characters, or is that anime? Anyway, I get what you're saying, but "sexily" characters with faces that resemble an eight-year-old's just creep me straight out. My disdain for anime style in general is showing through, I'm sure.

But yeah, there's a time and a place for it. I've seen sexuality done well, but it's usually done in the shittiest way ever. I also don't believe that overtly sexual character designs are needed to sell a game. Overall, I'd like to see more variety within the range of sexy to totally monstrous, because sexy all the time is boring and predictable.

Yes, the first three are anime (don't know the first two but the third is from Queen's Blade, a horrible fanservice meets fighting anime that most dignified people ignore(slightly hypocritical given the reception to Kill la Kill but see my other post and i will acknowledge a brain behind all the crazy))

Sexuallity can be done well but most writers in game or even movies which I feel that most games are aping don't know how to do it well so they go for 12 year old wank off. Granted, I'm 19 years old, male, and an otaku so my opinion may be heavily biased but I tend to like cute and not sexual

Spoiler: Shirogane Naoto

Spoiler: Noel Vermillion

regardless, My point may be biased but I do think that a move towards less overt sexuality and more cute with interesting personalities may be better

P.S. feel free to hate me for my insane interest in anime but I do feel like it's different

 

[Ryan Minns]

Eh, once or twice I've been confused as to how that ass, breasts or chest was talking but other than that I can't say I give a shit. I've played many games but I've apparently skipped all of the "Objects" within them so I can't comment on much.

I have actually wanted a game to have wondering eyes(Camera) though. Like imagine a game where if you select the "Let's be super friends!!!" option the camera shows a standard face to face conversation but if you're selecting all the "Yeah I'm so tapping that latter" options the camera occasionally will focus on his or her 'assets' during conversations? Just a random thought.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

I don't know, that Kill La Kill could easily be grasping at justification straws. "Girl gets put in sexy outfit against her will and has to deal with male gaze because of it" isn't exactly a unique plot. Especially in anime, where it's almost a default reaction.

In short, it's difficult to say something is "exploring" a theme when it plays the stereotypes associated with that theme unironically straight.

it is Trigger who worked on Gurren Laggon and Panty and Stocking so there is a bit of a brain in it though it is really only explicitly seen in the third episode villain speech (seriously, Satsuki makes her big speech and it does make an interesting point though I will acknowledge how people can be turned off before it). Regardless, Japan has different standards of sexuality so it's difficult to talk and the show, in my sole biased opinion, make it up for interesting characters, fun action, and unique setting

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

As long as it isn't too in your face, I'm perfectly fine with most things. I mean, if I want to go watch something overly-sexualized and exploitative I'll go watch Kill la Kill. Just google image search it and you'll see what I mean.

I probably am not the first to talk about Kill la Kill but there is a decent counterargument to it just being fanservice but I do feel its a "having a cake and eating it situation"

this image does a better job to explain it

Kill La Kill explanation [http://i.imgur.com/DpG1VIk.jpg]

as for the OP, i'm an anime fan so sexy is not my main focus but cute. People like Noel Vermillion or Shirogane Naoto do more for me than Ivy because they have cute expressions and designs while bing an odd personality mix that is both strong (takes a lot to see it in Noel but it's there) and awkwardness.

The problem is Noel Vermillion or Shirogane Naoto are not people at all. They are not women, nor are they an accurate representation of women. They are cartoons like roger rabbit. Saying that one is attracted to Noel Vermillion or Shirogane Naoto is like saying someone is attracted to annoying orange or roger rabbit. They are not a representation of actual humans, no more than roger rabbit is a an actual male. Being attracted to actual males or females is different than being attracted to cartoons.

I am well aware that that they are only characters but I find them at least better constructed than Ivy's who has a stupidly convoluted revenge plot and connection to Cervantes. Noel has some decent conflict and progress in her story and Shirogane's story, while exaggerated, still can be relatable to people. Besides, mediums can make characters that people are attracted to and admire without issue and while I acknowledge that my attraction is abnormal, I have a feeling I'm not alone. Plus, I theorize that for some, being attracted to real people shares similarities to attraction to characters since initial attachment has to be there for a reason (though the debate on synthetic relationships could turn this forum more scholarly that it is possible).

P.S. am I overreacting or do i sense that you think i'm a shut in Hikkikomori who has sexual attractions to characters.

 

[uchytjes]

I probably am not the first to talk about Kill la Kill but there is a decent counterargument to it just being fanservice but I do feel its a "having a cake and eating it situation"

this image does a better job to explain it

Kill La Kill explanation [http://i.imgur.com/DpG1VIk.jpg]

as for the OP, i'm an anime fan so sexy is not my main focus but cute. People like Noel Vermillion or Shirogane Naoto do more for me than Ivy because they have cute expressions and designs while bing an odd personality mix that is both strong (takes a lot to see it in Noel but it's there) and awkwardness.

I am well aware about the counterargument to Kill La Kill's subtext and the theories surrounding it and actually support that view of the show, but it is still incredibly hard to get people to look beyond the breasts and butts to see it.

 

[King Zeal]

I don't know, that Kill La Kill could easily be grasping at justification straws. "Girl gets put in sexy outfit against her will and has to deal with male gaze because of it" isn't exactly a unique plot. Especially in anime, where it's almost a default reaction.

In short, it's difficult to say something is "exploring" a theme when it plays the stereotypes associated with that theme unironically straight.

it is Trigger who worked on Gurren Laggon and Panty and Stocking so there is a bit of a brain in it though it is really only explicitly seen in the third episode villain speech (seriously, Satsuki makes her big speech and it does make an interesting point though I will acknowledge how people can be turned off before it). Regardless, Japan has different standards of sexuality so it's difficult to talk and the show, in my sole biased opinion, make it up for interesting characters, fun action, and unique setting

It's definitely possible for a work to "make up for" blatant fanservice with other merits. I was only pointing out that this shouldn't stop us from examining it.

 

[Shadowstar38]

Sexualization is not a first world problem. It happens at every level of society. Bad representation in media is bad representation, and still oppressive.

Yeah...still not the right word to use here.

The sexualization exists because people like post number 70 appreciate it, aka, giving the audience what they want. This is not meant to oppress woman. At least not in the way normal people use that word.

 

[King Zeal]

Oppression does not rely on intent. Simply giving an audience "what they want" can still easily be a form of oppression, especially when it becomes systemic. There IS a such thing as an oppressive majority.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

I don't know, that Kill La Kill could easily be grasping at justification straws. "Girl gets put in sexy outfit against her will and has to deal with male gaze because of it" isn't exactly a unique plot. Especially in anime, where it's almost a default reaction.

In short, it's difficult to say something is "exploring" a theme when it plays the stereotypes associated with that theme unironically straight.

it is Trigger who worked on Gurren Laggon and Panty and Stocking so there is a bit of a brain in it though it is really only explicitly seen in the third episode villain speech (seriously, Satsuki makes her big speech and it does make an interesting point though I will acknowledge how people can be turned off before it). Regardless, Japan has different standards of sexuality so it's difficult to talk and the show, in my sole biased opinion, make it up for interesting characters, fun action, and unique setting

It's definitely possible for a work to "make up for" blatant fanservice with other merits. I was only pointing out that this shouldn't stop us from examining it.

Believe me, I am cynical and bitter about anime so I analyze it for cultural connections and connotations all the time. Analysis does not hurt a show but improves it

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

I probably am not the first to talk about Kill la Kill but there is a decent counterargument to it just being fanservice but I do feel its a "having a cake and eating it situation"

this image does a better job to explain it

Kill La Kill explanation [http://i.imgur.com/DpG1VIk.jpg]

as for the OP, i'm an anime fan so sexy is not my main focus but cute. People like Noel Vermillion or Shirogane Naoto do more for me than Ivy because they have cute expressions and designs while bing an odd personality mix that is both strong (takes a lot to see it in Noel but it's there) and awkwardness.

I am well aware about the counterargument to Kill La Kill's subtext and the theories surrounding it and actually support that view of the show, but it is still incredibly hard to get people to look beyond the breasts and butts to see it.

Believe me, When I first saw drawings of Matoi with Senketsu activated, I wanted to drop it, it took my entire anime club recommending it for me to watch it and I don't regret it

 

[Shadowstar38]

Oppression does not rely on intent. Simply giving an audience "what they want" can still easily be a form of oppression, especially when it becomes systemic. There IS a such thing as an oppressive majority.

You...aren't explaining yourself very well. Who is losing out by having a big-breasted woman in your game?

 

[SuperScrub]

My stance on the issue of over sexualizing in games is that if you want to create a characters that look pretty, confident, and dare I say sexy but give them significant character development and make them feel like actual people and give them a reason to be in the story then go right on ahead and more power to you.

However if sexiness is not only the only reason those characters are there in the first place but it's done in away that's overdone, juvenile, and pandering (you know the tropes, Panty shots, chainmail bikinis, jiggle physics, etc.) I will not only feel insulted as a gamer but insulted as a man, and I probably won't buy your game even if I was threatened with waterboarding.

 

[Silvanus]

You...aren't explaining yourself very well. Who is losing out by having big-breasted women in hundreds of games?

Fixed that for you.

To ask about individual games is to miss the point. There is nothing wrong with a big-breasted woman turning up in a game. It is when it happens again and again and again-- nearly inescapably, depending on the genre-- that it becomes a problem. Think macro.

 

[King Zeal]

Oppression does not rely on intent. Simply giving an audience "what they want" can still easily be a form of oppression, especially when it becomes systemic. There IS a such thing as an oppressive majority.

You...aren't explaining yourself very well. Who is losing out by having a big-breasted woman in your game?

Basically, it's a stereotype of women which reinforces a sexist viewpoint of them. It's portraying women in a manner that is primarily for the enjoyment of a social majority (men). Consequently, it becomes harder and harder to portray women as anything OTHER than this. See, for example, industry execs that won't even allow a female protagonist in a game at all if she isn't eye candy or otherwise conforming to heteronormativity.

As Silvanus, says, it is an aggregate stereotype that has more to do with industry trends than a solitary example.

 

[gamernerdtg2]

I don't play games for sex. Soul Calibur/Blade/etc is a good game outside of the characters with huge breasts. Dead or Alive is basically soft porn. Queens Blade is cartoon soft porn.

Considering that visuals are only one aspect of gaming, I really spend most of my time playing more than watching. You can play a character with huge breasts, but you'd be terrible at the game if that's all you payed attention to.

Also, you (OP) like skinny women. That's cool because almost any woman can be objectified, or made to look sexy. I like women with curves. I'd take Ivy over that skinny Japanese chick in a hot second. That doesn't mean that playing a skinny woman (like Jade from BG&E) makes the game experience bad for me.

What role does sexuality play in gaming for me? Very little. Pictures are nice. Gameplay is always better.

So far, sex and gaming don't really mix.

Games that are "about" the sex are super boring. Super. Boring.

 

[Belaam]

Like a few others, I'm having a few issues with the OP seeming to equate "sexuality" with skimpy clothing.

I have zero problem with sexuality in games. In fact, it often seems odd when it is lacking. Big RPG with up to a dozen possible party members and the only character with any sort of a sex drive is the protagonist? Odd. I am absolutely okay with all characters having an interest in sex.

I find the fact that the vast majority of female characters are presented as prizes/visual stimuli for male characters over character with their own sex drives as highly problematic.

 

[white_wolf]

I don't like it if she (and lets face it 9/10 times its a she) is the sole person in the game boss, friend, hero, npc, party member that is sexulized unless we are at a strip club and she is a stripper or we're at the beach and she's dressed for that occasion. Now if its the whole team, group, or theme of the game to have all cast be sexulized or under-dressed for the occasion, weather, or occupation then its fine.

For instance Prince of Persia Warrior Within is not ok the fem boss is deliberately and blatantly a sexual tease for the sole purpose of this. The cast of Guilty Gear is fine the majority of them are in some way sexulized or poorly dressed for their occupation.

I don't think Guilty Gear is a good example or even the worst of it's genre. every single character in Guilty gear is over-stylized into sillyness.

Looking at the characters again the only one that seems under-dressed is Dizzy. The rest at most has shoulder-free clothes.

The males actually have less clothing on average

EDIT: Never mind, i misread your post

It's ok but the game has many sexulized characters and it was their aim in the first place which is why I say I'm fine with it nearly everyone across the board has something over the series we have Ino her dress, Dizzy obvious, Anji blatant pandering, Testament his outfit is unusual and can be seen as sexy for goths but he gets in here because of a power push that literately makes him naked, Baiken cleavage, Justice though a she has a very noticeable part that isn't, Slayer the cut and fit of his clothing is suggestive, Testament's companion she's naked and their kill occurs on a bed, Johnny a lady killer and made to appeal as such, Zappa and his ghost, and of course way more its not just less clothing that makes them this way its only the most obvious there is also the subtle like how the clothing is cut and fits their form that can also convey the intent as well. I could've easily pulled out the tired trope of DOA or bashed any number of PC game with girls who wear breast straps into battle but I decided to use a bit of variety.

 

[DarthSka]

Sexualization isn't really something that puts me off from a game as long as the gameplay is good. It's the same way I view a story in a game. Now, if the game ends up having good gameplay AND good characters, then I'll like that game all the more, so I'm definitely all for having better female characters in games, but it's not something that's going to make me shut it off. Plus, I'd be lying if I said I didn't like seeing an Ivy-like character, but I also enjoy Lightning-like characters too.

A lot of the sexualised characters are females and these characters are designed to pander to a male audience. Game companies and devs have a tendency to leave the female gaming audience out despite women making up a 47% part of the gaming sphere at the consumer level.

The problem with that is looking at video game consumers as one audience. Though there might be a 53/47 split overall, that number can vary for different genres or games. Just like with any media, there are specific audiences within that larger audience. I watch movies, but I don't watch romantic comedies or Saw-like horror movies. I read books, but I don't read autobiographies, romance, or mystery novels. I play video games, but I don't play puzzle, racing, sport, or RTS games. So if a game or genre has captured a specific audience, they're likely going to continue to make a product with that audience in mind.

 

[King Zeal]

The problem with that is looking at video game consumers as one audience. Though there might be a 53/47 split overall, that number can vary for different genres or games. Just like with any media, there are specific audiences within that larger audience. I watch movies, but I don't watch romantic comedies or Saw-like horror movies. I read books, but I don't read autobiographies, romance, or mystery novels. I play video games, but I don't play puzzle, racing, sport, or RTS games. So if a game or genre has captured a specific audience, they're likely going to continue to make a product with that audience in mind.

What you describe is another problematic thing in the various media--industry: a reinforced gender binary. There's no reason a particular genre can be said to inherently be "for" a certain gender or sexuality. Girls like power fantasy as much as everyone else, but there's not much pure girl power fantasy in the industry. Even stuff like Bayonetta or Lollipop Chainsaw are more about a particular fetish than it is being a female power fantasy.

To all the people who define sexualization as the following "Character exists only as object of sexual desire", how many of these characters are there, really. Characters that really serve no more purpose than to look pretty?
The strippers in the Duke Nukem games ring a bell, but what else is there?

Keep in mind that characters that do things in games are automatically scrapped from the list, because they do have additional purposes.

I personally would argue that this isn't accurate. While I agree with you that there are few characters that exist ''solely'' as sexual fantasy and have no other qualities, what you are implying has a problem.

Take, for example, Ivy. While she is not "ONLY" a sex object, being a sex object is the overarching most important part of her character. We can guess that much because she's one of the few female characters to survive the timeskip between SCIV and SCV, and the plot goes out of its way to assure us that she hasn't aged in all that time. The same thing is true of Nina and Anna Williams in Tekken; most other female characters before the decade-or-so-long timeskip in both series were either replaced by a Younger and Prettier Version 2.0, or were just written out of the story.

The sole exception I can think of being Hildegard of Soulcalibur V, but she was a character that Namco themselves said they created specifically to say "Hey look, a character that ISN'T a stereotype."

 

[Proto Taco]

I love sexuality in games. What I don't like is male-gaze porn in games.