Sexuality in gaming, your stance?

[King Zeal]

They're not reinforcing shit. Group of people buys shit in bulk in comparison to another group. Like the teen market, hispanic, blacks, asian, male, female, action, romance, thriller, mobile, and so on and so forth. Not everyone share the same interest nor do people need to share the same interest. People can like different shit, and some things don't have to appeal to everyone.

Again, not talking about "everything". But certainly more than what's been given. Even accounting for different tastes and markets, media still uses stereotyping.

If anything, it's the current industry that's doing what you accuse, by making a broad assumption that this is what its audience "wants". If it were really about different tastes, there would be no problem with more AAA titles using different portrayals of genders and sexualities.

Eh. The arts have been portraying people in an unrealistically attractive fashion since the dawn of time. Didn't hear anyone get pissy then so why start now?

For one reason, this is the first time in history that you wouldn't get stoned, burned, hung, or otherwise killed for voicing an opinion. Even 50 years ago, McCarthyism would get you branded a communist if you dared go against the American ideal of what was portrayed in media. Google "Hollywood Blacklist", for example.

 

[Gamer87]

I like sexy characters. My definition of sexy is unfortunately not the same as people who make games. To me a sexy character has an interesting, believable and well-written personality. Looks come second.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I honestly don't give a shit anymore. But I will say that I would prefer to just play a fighting game without having an erection whenever I fight against Sakura in Super Street Fighter IV.

 

[King Zeal]

You mean AAA having different genres such as fighting, horror, third person shooter, first person shooter, action, platformer, wrpg, jrpg, puzzles, and adventure. Because there more to taste than gender and sex.

No, since we're talking about sexuality here, I focused on the topic at hand. Because the basis of the criticism is that, regardless of the genre, sexualization and gender conformity are systemic across the board. There are few exceptions, and even fewer that aren't themselves stereotypes in some way.

 

[mezorin]

Sexualization does not always equal objectification, but the two often go hand in hand, especially in the gaming world. The objectification of women (ie existing just to make the guy in game or on the other side of the screen happy) is the real problem here, not so much that women look too perfect in game. Also, every in game major women characters basically being a super model 99% of the time is what I think people have a problem with when it comes to sexualization; its that its the default mode as opposed to the exception. I'd have no problem with sexuality if there was a bit more balance in it, both in variety for an audience, and actually writting a character that is more than the sum of her sexual characteristics. It will be a note worthy day in gaming when many women characters out there are well written "Average Janes" as opposed to super models.

Plus, the world needs more Garens, Nathan Drakes, and Dantes, why should guys have all the fun? There is no need to ban anything, just simply create a wider variety of stuff for all audiences.

 

[Poppy JR.]

I think that if it is handled in a way that doesn't seem overbearing, it can have a completely valid place. Some games I don't mind it in are games like Mortal Kombat, Bayonetta, or practically every other game where the focus is sexuality.

 

[Yuuki]

I honestly don't give a shit anymore. But I will say that I would prefer to just play a fighting game without having an erection whenever I fight against Sakura in Super Street Fighter IV.

But...Sakura is adorable :S not in the "ooh so sexy" sense, just child-like adorable. Unless schoolgirl outfits are your fetish (not mine personally)

Spoiler

Plus, one can't really say the outfit is out-of-place because she's always shown as someone picking fights while going (or coming) from school. The top is a bit short, but the skirt-length is definitely something you can find in some Japanese schools today.

Which only really leaves Cammy (and maybe Juri) as the true sex-appeal characters in SSFIV. That is, until Poison and Elena come along in Ultra Street Fighter IV hyuk hyuk hyuk.

 

[King Zeal]

Well, to be honest, the schoolgirl is a fetish to the Japanese like a cheerleader is to Americans.

 

[MoeMints]

They're not reinforcing shit. Group of people buys shit in bulk in comparison to another group. Like the teen market, hispanic, blacks, asian, male, female, action, romance, thriller, mobile, and so on and so forth. Not everyone share the same interest nor do people need to share the same interest. People can like different shit, and some things don't have to appeal to everyone.

Again, not talking about "everything". But certainly more than what's been given. Even accounting for different tastes and markets, media still uses stereotyping.

If anything, it's the current industry that's doing what you accuse, by making a broad assumption that this is what its audience "wants". If it were really about different tastes, there would be no problem with more AAA titles using different portrayals of genders and sexualities.

You mean AAA having different genres such as fighting, horror, third person shooter, first person shooter, action, platformer, wrpg, jrpg, puzzles, and adventure. Because there more to taste than gender and sex.

Most JRPGs, WRPGs (outside camp Bioware and Elder Scrolls), Puzzles, Adventure, Platformers, Horror, the more complex Action games, and fighters are DEFINITELY not triple A.
Heck Skullgirls is about the luckiest fighter to still be in major development for half a decade and still have fans.

Which is why I'm confused on what people are even trying to argue here. Apparently, zero people in this thread even played DOA and SC's fifth games because everyone thinks Xtreme 2 and Ivy's sling armor are still relevant.

I don't know, that Kill La Kill could easily be grasping at justification straws. "Girl gets put in sexy outfit against her will and has to deal with male gaze because of it" isn't exactly a unique plot. Especially in anime, where it's almost a default reaction.

In short, it's difficult to say something is "exploring" a theme when it plays the stereotypes associated with that theme unironically straight.

it is Trigger who worked on Gurren Laggon and Panty and Stocking so there is a bit of a brain in it though it is really only explicitly seen in the third episode villain speech (seriously, Satsuki makes her big speech and it does make an interesting point though I will acknowledge how people can be turned off before it). Regardless, Japan has different standards of sexuality so it's difficult to talk and the show, in my sole biased opinion, make it up for interesting characters, fun action, and unique setting

It's definitely possible for a work to "make up for" blatant fanservice with other merits. I was only pointing out that this shouldn't stop us from examining it.

Believe me, I am cynical and bitter about anime so I analyze it for cultural connections and connotations all the time. Analysis does not hurt a show but improves it

A lot of it is actually through the inspiration of Go Nagai and works he's related to.
TTGL is straight up Getter Robo rebooted with a Saturday Morning Cartoon (which it was) premise.
The man is both shameless and boundless, even making his own material like go everything from a dark and grim mystery with twists and turns, to a superheroine completely in the buff.
A middleground called Cutey Honey is actually a major part in creating both the sexualized but fun heroine and the magical (transforming) girl genre. If you see Gainax's own version, Re: Cutey Honey, you'll see a lot more inspiration in that instead of TTGL like everyone freaking insist. Heck, Honey herself is pretty much Mako and Ryuuko combined.

 

[Amir Kondori]

Give it all to me. I think sexualized characters of either gender (yes, it happens WAY more to female characters, I know) are a-ok in some games and totally not ok in other games. Like most things in life it is all about context.

 

[garjian]

We're nearing the end of SCV's lifecycle and we're still talking about one of Ivy's costumes from SCIV?
How can you expect things to make progress if you never actually pay attention to the progress, and focus on past infringements? ...not to say Ivy is much of a step forward in V, but it would be great if we could at least keep it current and... ugh... who cares?
It's probably been said 7 times already...

Can I just get some sexualized men over here without having to resort to mods please thank you?

I enjoy sexuality in games, mere pandering or otherwise. I'd appreciate more,but I just wish it wasn't always women and almost all of the women. Context is important... it doesn't work with every character but it can add to some -- You don't have to make every woman sexy, and please, you could at least do something with your male characters besides having stomach muscles and being an edgy arsewit.

 

[Shadowstar38]

To ask about individual games is to miss the point. There is nothing wrong with a big-breasted woman turning up in a game. It is when it happens again and again and again-- nearly inescapably, depending on the genre-- that it becomes a problem. Think macro.

And yet people complain about Dragon's Crown when there's a choice of a female character who isn't sexualized, and characters with normal body proportions are an abnormality no matter the sex. The message goes from "Give us some verity" to "Stop using this body type"

 

[MoeMints]

*snip [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.835515.20464771]*

I know that, but almost every time, people make the argument more confusing by implying there's no need to analyze context, themes, and direction because apparently its just as polarizing for MGS to have skintight leather clad completely serious females as if it were in Gears of War, or Halo and Hitman was.

I'm just tired of these arguments and discussions being too sweeping and barely looking into the rabbit hole.

The OP doesn't even know his first example is hilariously ironic to use since she not only is a video game character, but has a sex scene that is straight up just there to be pandering.

 

[King Zeal]

To ask about individual games is to miss the point. There is nothing wrong with a big-breasted woman turning up in a game. It is when it happens again and again and again-- nearly inescapably, depending on the genre-- that it becomes a problem. Think macro.

And yet people complain about Dragon's Crown when there's a choice of a female character who isn't sexualized, and characters with normal body proportions are an abnormality no matter the sex. The message goes from "Give us some verity" to "Stop using this body type"

Except that she's a minority even in that very game. So the game still adds to the complaint more than it subverts it.

 

[Jenvas1306]

generally I find some designs just ridiculous. TERA is a good example, those armors arent designed to look protective, they are designed to look awesome and sexy, on both genders, its the games style. But then are are lots of games who give only their female characters that treatment and if you treat women different from men, then thats sexism.

an example of how to be a hypocrite about it would be riotgames attempt to make less sexualized characters with the result being female characters that pander to the guys who like their sexyness less blant.

Guildwars2 also has a good bad example, their male norns are build like a brickhouse, looking just like the oversized dwarven cousins they are. the females look like bigger humans. I would have liked some option for more muscle thou.

but there are companies who get it right, Digital Extremes with their warframe for example. female warframes are designed around a theme, just like the male warframes, their gender just happens to be female without being a major part in their concept. the female warframe kinda show even more different bodytypes than the male ones do. some of those bodytypes are then discussed on the forums, but naturally noone ever complains about the lack of ass on some of the male warframes, its allways about the female ones not having enough boobage etc...
the newest warframe caused a bit of an outcry from a part of the playerbase, because female spaceninjas in bioengineered suits who have superpowers cant be frontline fighters because of being female, obviously!
DE doesnt give much about that, their game is about ninjas in space.

 

[Shadowstar38]

To ask about individual games is to miss the point. There is nothing wrong with a big-breasted woman turning up in a game. It is when it happens again and again and again-- nearly inescapably, depending on the genre-- that it becomes a problem. Think macro.

And yet people complain about Dragon's Crown when there's a choice of a female character who isn't sexualized, and characters with normal body proportions are an abnormality no matter the sex. The message goes from "Give us some verity" to "Stop using this body type"

Except that she's a minority even in that very game. So the game still adds to the complaint more than it subverts it.

So...what? Are you saying there's some minimum quota for "reasonably dressed" characters they should be hitting?

 

[Silvanus]

And yet people complain about Dragon's Crown when there's a choice of a female character who isn't sexualized, and characters with normal body proportions are an abnormality no matter the sex. The message goes from "Give us some verity" to "Stop using this body type"

That's true, but people wouldn't complain about Dragon's Crown (or any other example) so much if A) They were isolated examples, and B) the games provided some sort of balance (doing the same to the males, and hypermasculinity doesn't count).

If those two criteria were satisfied, then the complaints would drop in number dramatically.

 

[King Zeal]

And yet people complain about Dragon's Crown when there's a choice of a female character who isn't sexualized, and characters with normal body proportions are an abnormality no matter the sex. The message goes from "Give us some verity" to "Stop using this body type"

That's true, but people wouldn't complain about Dragon's Crown (or any other example) so much if A) They were isolated examples, and B) the games provided some sort of balance (doing the same to the males, and hypermasculinity doesn't count).

If those two criteria were satisfied, then the complaints would drop in number dramatically.

To ask about individual games is to miss the point. There is nothing wrong with a big-breasted woman turning up in a game. It is when it happens again and again and again-- nearly inescapably, depending on the genre-- that it becomes a problem. Think macro.

And yet people complain about Dragon's Crown when there's a choice of a female character who isn't sexualized, and characters with normal body proportions are an abnormality no matter the sex. The message goes from "Give us some verity" to "Stop using this body type"

Except that she's a minority even in that very game. So the game still adds to the complaint more than it subverts it.

So...what? Are you saying there's some minimum quota for "reasonably dressed" characters they should be hitting?

You used the example, not me. Your intention was to apparently show that it was giving critics what they wanted. I was just letting you know where you were wrong, and the poster above added more context.

 

[Islandbuffilo]

Sexualizing characters in the game is the best way for me to stop taking it seriously. In something like Dead or Alive, it's fine to take the game lightheartedly. When Mass Effect shoves Miranda's ass in the camera it ruins the game. There's a time and a place for it, it doesn't need to be completely purged but it shouldn't be forced into every game for pandering.

Also for every sexy women there must be a sexy man, I want some eyecandy too.

I did a back flip laughing when they angled the camera on Miranda's backside.
For the most part, I fine women with ridiculous proportions in games humorous, and they're appearances is usually used for sexual humor. I don't really find them all that sexy.

 

[LetalisK]

Kind of off-topic, but I've found this be a bullshit complaint in the first place. I've been playing(read: plodding through) DA2 for the first time and one of the things I specifically looked for was this whole Anders debacle. However, I haven't been able to find a single instance where he was treated any differently in romance initiation. I kept hearing about how he gets foisted on to you, but it simple hasn't happened. My trick? Don't pick the big fucking heart conversation option. Hell, maybe it did happen somewhere, but if it did, it was utterly insignificant.

I think the main "issue" there is that unless you are extremely careful in picking dialogue options you get a tiny rivalry shift from turning Anders down, and it's there regardless of whether you play a male or female Hawke.

From what I understand, people felt like in the case of a male Hawke you should have been able to say "no homo" and that should have removed any emotional consequences from the situation. You know, just like in real life. Because gay people are such a tiny minority they should expect their romantic intentions to always be rejected and should therefore never feel bad about it.

I don't buy that complaint either(not implying you are complaining about it). I've looked for the telltale scene where Anders tries to flirt with you out of the blue and I can not find it. I've seen nothing to suggest Anders is any different than any other romance character in that in order for there to be any romance or flirtation the player actually has to initiate it with picking a Heart option. But, like I said, maybe it was just so insignificant that I just glossed right over it.

Edit: Wait, I think I found it. Is this it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK1w-Y8yJ6Q