Sherlock Holmes Sequel Threatened by "Homoerotic Subtext"

Deathman101

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IMO her saying that she will pull the plug due to not being honourable to the book is a lame excuse to say either "I don't like gays, fuck off", or "The public won't like gays, fuck off". Could also be both though...

In all honesty, I'm not exactly sure that gay main characters would attract many sales in the modern world, except maybe the gays themselves. But that makes up for around 1/3 of the world right now IIRC.
 

soaringbiscuit

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Robert Downey Jr. said his own movie had homoerotic subtext, thus killing any chance of him making more money off another one....


DOWNEY!

What is this i dont even
 

high_castle

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Heathrow said:
high_castle said:
Seriously? I'm a huge fan of the books and won't see this movie because it looks to treat them pretty lightly. So it's okay that Downey can make Holmes a brawler when in canon he was a passifist, but inserting gay subtext (some of which might already be there if you talk to some literary scholars) crosses the line?

*facepalm*
I'm amused by the popular misconceptions about Holmes, it makes me wonder if anyone who claims to have read the books has actually read them. Not only is he not a pacifist - he killed Moriarty at Reichenbach falls at least, but he is also an avid fighter and a trained boxer.

Edit: More OT, as for Holmes's sexuality he's only ever shown a lasting interest in Irene Adler making him most likely Irene-sexual, homosexual undertones do exist although I doubt they were intended by Sir ACD. However, since a modern writer would most certainly explore that subtext (cough House/Wilson cough) I think that Ms. Plunket may be nipping something interesting in the bud for the sake of preserving something old.
I have the complete collection and have read each story at least 3 times, sometimes more. Holmes uses violence, but as a last resort. Knowing how to fight and choosing to brawl at every occasion are not the same thing. Again, I haven't seen the movie, but it looks as though they made Holmes lead with his fist while in canon he looked for other solutions. I agree with you that sexuality wise, if he wasn't with Watson, he may very well have been Irene-sexual. However, I prefer to think of him as asexual myself.
 

El Gostro

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Hardcore_gamer said:
How would you feel if someone decided to make a "remake" of the first Lord of The Rings movie where Gandalf is actually a Brazilian boxer and Frodo is a drug addict?
I think that would be TOTALLY AWESOME and I'd be the first in line to see it,furthermore Froddo being on drugs would explain a lot of things


(Isn't gandalf played by a gay actor in the movies though?)
 

CJ1145

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Binerexis said:
"I'm all for Downey to kick back and have a laugh and joke about it but as soon as it goes against MY interpretation of the character and MY view on how the characters would act if they were that little bit different then I'm afraid I'll have to pull the plug on the project because I have to have my own way."


Did anyone else read it as that or is it just me being in a bit of a bad mood?
That's what it sounded like, but not quite as selfish as you said.
 

Noone From Nowhere

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In keeping with the spirit of the Great Detective, I suspect that this warning is nothing of the kind. No, it is sly subterfuge engineered with the sole purpose of creating controversy where there would be none, increasing interest in the inevitable sequel many fold.

After the estate 'acquiesces', the film will be chock full of homo-erotic sub-text,text and super-text and as such will be hailed as progressive, fresh take on the stuffy old character, pulling in money from both homosexual film goers who would be practically obligated to watch it at least twice and heterosexual women who, while not obligated, will feel more than priviledged to watch it four times minimum. The same goes for any man who wishes not to be labeled a homphobe or given grief by his significant other who will definitely be in attendance.

It's diabolically clever, I'd say. They'd do Moriarty proud!

[As an added bonus for the filmmakers,it will mean finding less awkward excuses for Holmes or Watson to have shirtless scenes!]
 

escapistraptor

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Dumbfish1 said:
Andrea Plunket said:
black sense of humor
Really? I always thought of homosexuality as quite light hearted and, well, camp. Like Graham Norton or Barrowman.(shakes fist)
I'm more concerned about classifying it as black sense of humor because black humor is by definition a sinister/disturbing topic treated lightly, which implies that Plunket thinks homosexuality is a sinister/disturbing topic.
 

Pegghead

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Well that would suck if they weren't able to make a sequel, sherlock holmes was one of those rare movies nowadays I actually want to see continued.
 

TsunamiWombat

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So it's okay that Holmes did Heroine and was effectivly, an ADD raddled drug junkie, but make him gay and OMG THATS BAD!

Also, for lit snobs, Holmes DID get into fights -constantly- (Holmes and Watson "apprehended" the criminals" in the books and is canonical that he practices Bartisu
 

littlerob

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May 11, 2009
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Oh internet, why do you not smart anymore?

She isn't homophobic. Let's examine this:
- She's in charge of the US IP of one of the greatest (and potentially most lucrative) detective series ever, along with James Bond
- She's overseeing a bunch of artsy-fartsy actor types making a film of this IP, and trying to make sure Hollywood doesn't get too much out of the inevitable compromise between the hollywood director's formula and the original source material
- Said actor types start commenting on relationship between the two main characters, and the rather 'guy-love' nature of it
- She steps in with a definitive 'They aren't gay, they never were, now drop it and just make the films like the books,' then follows it up with 'Yes, we know Downey Jr was probably just joking, but seriously, don't anyway.'
- Suddenly, homophobes, thousands of them!

Goddamn. All buzzwords (as in, pretty much anything ending in 'ist' or 'ism', for a start) should be banned, just to make people think about what they're saying, if only through forcing them to take longer to say it.

Holmes and Watson are not gay in any of the earlier material (at least not in any confirmable fashion) and the only reason to make them so in the new films would be to pander to demographics. The fact that this is brought up after the first film has had widespread acclaim is even better, as now people who liked the first one more for the steampunk detective side of things than the bromance can't not see the second one (because homophobia), even though if a gay subplot were to be introduced it would require enough character development to make the film a romance with an action backdrop, rather than the other way around.

Let me put it in terms you internet gamer people might understand easier.

Take any franchise. Let's say, oh, Assassin's Creed. Now, I'm sure if you looked hard enough (or considering the internet nowadays, not that hard) you'll find a hefty amount of, say, Ezio/Leonardo slashfiction. However, this is not canon, and most fans would acknowledge that. Sometimes quite harshly and angrily, depending on whereabouts in the internet you go.

Plunket is basically doing the same. She's 'word of god'ing that Holmes and Watson are not gay, to stop people messing around with official stuff (like the films), and she has every right to do that as the IP holder.

On a slightly related note; it's not homophobia, it's character consistency. If it made sense for Holmes and Watson to be gay (and was mentioned anywhere at all beforehand, rather than Downey Jr and a handfull of journalists pulling it out of their arses), I'm sure most people would be fine with that. As it is, it would be massively contrived, and pretty obviously a ploy to try to snag a larger audience amongst the gay community.

Instead of getting so up-in-arms when straight characters can't be made ambiguously gay, try tackling the way gay characters are consistently caricatured and stereotyped where they do appear. People get iffy about gay protagonists because of the horrendous mess films have made of gay characters so far. Get some good characters that happen to be gay (in a way that doesn't take up the entire damn storyline, or more of it than straight hollywood romances do), and then we might be able to start on the main characters.
 

Alex_P

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Mar 27, 2008
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littlerob said:
Plunket is basically doing the same. She's 'word of god'ing that Holmes and Watson are not gay, to stop people messing around with official stuff (like the films), and she has every right to do that as the IP holder.
From an artistic standpoint, the idea that someone who contributed nothing to the creation of the source material gets to "word-of-god" anything about it simply as a result of her husband putting down some money in the '80s is laughable. She's free to her opinion, but let's not make her out to be some kind of super-special authority on the tone and character of Arthur Conan Doyle's writing.

And, shit, if she wanted to "just make the films like the books," why would she green-light a Guy Ritchie treatment?

-- Alex
 

Radelaide

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Watson and Holmes have a completely legit bromance going on and the fact people might stop this because they might "catch the gay" is stupid. Like, so stupid it hurts. The movie was great and I want to see more adventures of Watson suc-- being Holmes' conscious...
 

duchaked

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it was fun to joke, or rather tease, Holmes in the movie for his jealousy
but really it's almost a normal bromance sorta thing going on haha

edit:
Radelaide said:
Watson and Holmes have a completely legit bromance going on and the fact people might stop this because they might "catch the gay" is stupid. Like, so stupid it hurts. The movie was great and I want to see more adventures of Watson suc-- being Holmes' conscious...
hahaha you basically said what I did RIGHT before I did
but yeah lolll good one
but no, the movie was great, hopefully the sequel will be even better
(and I'd say the same for Iron Man 2, more so even)
 

Therumancer

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Actually, I think the estate would lose. It's been a while but didn't they already do a comedy movie about Holmes being gay? I thought of the title as I was writing this but it slipped through my mind.

In general I've been under the impression for quite a while that Sherlock Holmes had become more or less public domain. If it's not than they probably would lose any attempt to defend the rights due to lack of enforcement, because looking back at a lot of various stuff over the years including "League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen" (the comics not the movies), "Planetary", and even the TV series "Sanctuary" Holmes has been tossed out there in some pretty character altering fashions, some of which strike me as being even more potentially offensive than implying he's gay (which I'm pretty sure had been done before as well).

That said, for anyone who has seen the movie it should be obvious that Robert Downy Jr. is kidding because:

heterosexual tension is a big part of the entire plotline. Both between Watson and his Fiancee, and Sherlock Holmes with a certain lady master thief whom he has a borderline creepy obsession with (keeping detailed files on her, and a picture of her on his desk, covering all of this up... or trying to, when she makes an apperance being one key scene early on in the movie.

The most that could be said is that they are bi, and honestly even that is pushing it unless your of the belief that men can't have close friendships with other men without sex being involved. It's even said at one point that the two of them are supposed to be like brothers.

The Holmes/Watson relationship might seem a bit odd because in general it's unusual today where social conscience pretty much demands all men, even the best of friends, keep each other at arms length, and constantly be in each others face to an extent, despite an unspoken respect. The typical "buddy cop" relationship. While you see some of this in the movie (there is plenty of back and forth, especially over Holmes taking Watson for granted) it's not the kind of chemistry people raised entirely on "Lethal Weapon" and "Rush Hour" type duos are going to be comfortable with.

Saying they are gay can be funny, but it's like joking about Batman's relationship with Robin, everyone knows it's not true, but it can be made funny when you intentionally change, or alter the context.
 

TechNoFear

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littlerob said:
Plunket is basically doing the same. She's 'word of god'ing that Holmes and Watson are not gay, to stop people messing around with official stuff (like the films), and she has every right to do that as the IP holder.
Sherlock Holmes is public domain, except possibly in the US (as one book is still copyright until 2023). The 'possibly' comes from exactly what elements of a character are covered by a copyright (and so can not be used in a derivative work).
For example I have seen English made Sherlock Holmes movies where Holmes is a cocaine addict.

I assume that the US studio simply paid for a license to avoid any possibility of a copyright suit.

To would be interesting to see if they allowed the copyright holder to restrict their creative interpretation (that was earning lots at the box office).