Shocked into Silence: The Debate over Violence in Games

[Spinwhiz]

Parents can only do so much, I can agree with that. You give your kids a road in which to try to follow and the morals in which to deal with dilemmas, but you can't do everything.

Unfortunately, there are parents out there who would rather society raise their children, then ***** about it later. These are the parents who actually buy the game for their kids when they are 14 and not even realize they have bought a game their are complaining about at the office later in the day because it made the news.

This goes back to something I feel very strongly about: some people should not be allowed to reproduce. They are only making MORE rude, unethical, backstabbing kids that are dumb as bricks (i.e. Britney and Kevin should have both been neutered way before they even met, now they've released 2 of their gene pool into society). God help us...and those two little ones.

Have a nice day

 

[Anton P. Nym]

I suppose you could blame video games for real-world violence. Or movies. Or TV. Or comic books, radio dramas, dime novels, playing cards, billiards, dancing, or reading the Bible in English instead of Latin.

[insert rousing rendition of "Blame Canada", from the South Park movies.]

It'd be the same thing all over again... scapegoating. We're good at that, as a species; we're not so good at actually looking at what drives us. I oppose the fatuities thrown about. I abhor the trivialities that get spouted under the cover of "science", when the studies in question are questionable and often slanted.

It's all crap. Now, back to my job-which-pays-for-my-Halo-addiction.

-- Steve

 

[semicharm [deprecated]]

Unfortunately, there are parents out there who would rather society raise their children, then ***** about it later. These are the parents who actually buy the game for their kids when they are 14 and not even realize they have bought a game their are complaining about at the office later in the day because it made the news.

True. Society in general is corrupt and immoral, so why parents trust it to raise their kids is beyond me. They must be about as messed up as the kids that look up to gangbanger game characters as role models. The point is that they just don't care. It's this sort selfish disrespect that is deteriorating our society and until we as people change our self-destructive attitudes, it's only going to get worse.

As for the article, it really says something when developers are uncomfortable with openly discussing their own games! It makes you wonder why are they making games that they are not comfortable with in the first place. Unfortunately, most popular games are published by a handfull of mega-corporations, and mega-corporations are obsessed with making obscene amounts of wealth above all else. Even though their games tend to be knock-offs with trite plots, they still sell by the truck load, and as long as that continues, nothing will change. I'm sure that developers would love to make more games with depth and substance, but until publishers are willing to give the extra time to do so, all of their dreams are left in notebooks or the cutting floor.

 

[Easykill]

At lunch today I saw a sign for kids help phone that said "Does violence in videogames promote violence in young people?" and two collection cups, one that said "Yes", and one that said "No". I put five dollars in the "No" cup but prior to that they were tied. And this was in a HIGHSCHOOL, so that gives a indication of what most people think.
We cant find something to blame for violence because its in our nature.

 

[Franz [deprecated]]

wow, your high school must be weird, if you did that at mine it'd be no like 85%... or maybe my school is weird ... i completely agree with Spinwhiz's comment, some people in our society are just too dumb to be allowed to live, much less reproduce. sadly for all of us it is highly likely that the majority of parents fit the description he posted but kids are no better for requesting such games(some of you may think they don't know better, but when i was a kid i recognized some games were just not appropiate at the time, and WCII and SC i could always differentiate between life and game, as anyone with a better IQ than a rock should)

 

[shadow skill]

Meh GTA's whole draw is just doing whatever the hell you want. I personally don't consider GTA "any brow" because it has nothing to do with intellectuality and does not even try to pretend to be anything but. It's actually no wonder GTA sells so well its good at what it actually ttries to do unlike MMO rpg's which are not even really rpg's because they don't have any story at all which basically precludes them from being rpg's in the first place.

I do agree that we need to demand more games with a half decent story and so forth, however I think the first thing we need to do is get rid of all of the PC game developers since they are quite clearly the most uncreative people doing games right now. You think GTA is bad take a look at FPS'....The whole damn genre is effectively a zombie right now I swear....

 

[danimal1384]

eh, i can see some merit in your opinions Shadow Skill, but in my opinion, even if a game like GTA doesn't try to be anything it isn't, that is still no excuse for being mindless and in my opinion, boring after the first two hours. there isn't much fun in just offing citizens by the truck load for very long at all. some say there is huge replay value in the GTA games, but i've yet to personally meet some one who actually finished one since GTA 3. so while they can get entertainment from murdering everyone in the town multiple times, it just looses its flavor for me faster than a piece of really cheap gum.

and yes, FPS's seem to be in a horrible rut, except of course for Halo 3, which i think is subpar from what it could and should have been, but still very very fun. but an FPS is the same as every other FPS ever in simplicity. you shoot things or people, or both. thats it. but at least some developers attempt to bring something new to the table, even though the genre itself is vastly limited by its very nature. Gears of War is different, even though it was rather dissappointing. but at least they tried, though appearedly only a half-hearted effort.

and MMO's i generally don't understand what the big deal is with them. they are boring and tedious and monotonous, at best. but people without social agendas seem to find sactuary and acceptance in them, so let's leave them alone, cause otherwise they will come back and annoy the rest of us. this doesn't mean all MMO players have no life, just alot. and that isn't a direct insult, though i guess it is. its meant more to be constructive criticism. i just don't have time to spend on an MMO; the outside world interferes with things like school, work, friends, family, girlfriend, and so forth. i think we could all benefit from seeing alittle more sun.

 

[MorkFromOrk]

The whole direct equation of 'video game violence = youth violence' is immature at best and is not even the real issue. What we need to be concerned about is not the one kid who plays [enter any one of a gazzilion violent video games here] and goes to school and opens fire on his classmates. What we should be concerned about is how the majority of the game developers/publishers out there seeks to profit by tapping into human kinds most primitive, destructive, anti-social traits. What we should be concerned about is that most game developers and publisher think profit first and moral responsibility as something not even worth considering unless it effects profits. Manhunt 2 is just the tip of the iceberg as to the kind of crap some in the gaming industry would put out if there were no restraints put upon them.

I'm not against all violent video games, I've played violent video games from time to time. But too much of the gaming industry on a whole is like bathing in blood. Surely there is more to being human than an insatiable lust for death and destruction.

 

[VideoGameFan]

thank you Katana314 for supporting me despite my long-windedness. i don't think that is a proper word, but i'm using it anyway. and no, its not all on the parents, such narrow-minded thinking is the same thing that Thompson and his followers are doing.

Franz is correct too. Kids who are ignorant enough to think that you can do these things in the real world and its good are idiots, but alot of them aren't mentally stable enough to realize its wrong. its part stupidity, part mental illness. and while i'm the first to say that psychology and psychiatrists tend to over-diagnois most things, there is still merit in saying that a 10 year old who pulls the wings off of insects has some underlying issues.

as to Arbre's comment. Your only half right on the GTA games not being cheaply produced. while the environment's look changes as do the vehicles, its still all the same game engine. they didn't have to do much of anything new after GTA 3, they just changed the sprites and the environment slightly, but its mostly the same game from GTA 3 to Vice City to San Andreas. that is still relatively cheaply produced. and thats fine if you are okay with buy shallow games. i occassionally like violence without reason as well from time to time. but when a game like the GTA games are some of the top selling games of all time, then there is a problem with the industry and, more importantly, with us consumers. but thats only my opinion and its up to u to agree or not.

but in the end, we need to take a side here, and not try to act like there isn't a fence to even sit on. if we as a group are going to continue to let violence-dominated games without much depth be the flagships of the industry, then we are going to have to accept that our image as an industry is going to be crappy; and we all will look like mentally unstable crazies who want to kill our peers and co-workers. and the developers will look like satan who is trying to steal the innocence and hearts of our youth. if we don't want this image to perpetuate, then we need to have games that contain a philosophy with the violence. there should be some consequences on the character's psyche or morale or some deducter of sorts for everyone he kills or maimes horribly. otherwise kids will think that bludgeoning some one with a tire iron is an acceptable way to deal with bullying or injustice.

I agree with you. I would rather take the Gamers' side. There are greater threats in the world, rather than saying that "It's the video games' fault!". The greater threats, for example, are terrorists, dictators, etc. Plus, people like Jack Thompson calls us gamers, "heartless monsters" and "Satanists". I do not think that we are "heartless monsters" nor "Satanists". I believe in God and Jesus Christ.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Great my fcking post got ate....lets try this again

The problem with this is the elite(well to do,rich,moralists,ect) have always tried to not understand the masses, look at the bible and reading and well literacy for the masses it scared thos in power at the time, look at the elite blocking theater something they enjoyed for years once the masses started to like it they made a fuss about it, its a "they just don't understand" issue, they always seem to know better and their morals are better than everyone elses, by using free time and near inf sums of money they can impact on the populace more than anything else..look at the great crusades on all form of media over the years from words to dancing to to music its all been blamed before.(anyone with a better brain want to run with this thought? and I do mean in a non sarcastic/humor way )

I am not anti elite/rich but it seems that they always try and gang up on the masses either trying to protect them half heartily from the dangers of life or rape them of what lil money they have.

Anyone see the Glenn Beck ep where he talked to D.L Hulgy? His reaction during the the "walmart can sell guns but not songs about guns" part is what I mean he(I can't tell if he was play acting or not) tossed his head back and scoffed at the idea that stupid people are stupid regardless of the media they consume, this reaction that media brainwashes the masses is the reaction the elite have to "X" media since they do not understand its really no different than the media they consume they use it to pile on societies woes and try and ban it, the naivety is astounding.

Life is hard,people can break, people are indavenauls that tend to heard easily however media makes a killer/abuser as much as a word dose,as much as a gun dose, as much as a game dose, as much as life dose.

There are a few main factors that do mental stability, heathly child hood, drugs(not bashing drugs but the right mix of some can lead to mental insabilty,I think they should be legalized and the war on drugs refocused 180 degrees) 1 of these 3 factors will always be relevant in cases of humans killing them selfs(to kill another is to kill thyself bit by bit) , BTW if one is stupid enough one can be mental,also mental stress to protect ones self can lead to short term instability.

I'll stop now before I contradict myself more LOL

 

[danimal1384]

first, MorkFromOrk, of course they tap into our primal violent tendencies, its what makes the industry successful. when was the last time you watched the news where they didn't talk about some one being raped or attacked or killed? happiness doesn't sell well, especially in our country. we enslaved africans, stole everything from the native-americans, but how dare the british crown put an extra cent tax on my stamps or tea!! americans are full of violence and always have been. pain sells people, bottom line.

as for ZippyDSMlee, your right as well. the rich elitists in the world are the ones who control our sphere too. they are afraid of loosing their hold on the populace and that we will see through their lies. so when something that challenges their power shows itself, they do all they can to destroy it. too bad for them they allowed too much freedom of information exchange and now they have lost their ability to control and filter what we are exposed to. and this might have something to do with the growing percentage of mentally ill people, including youth, in the world. long did they cover up what really goes on. and now that we are starting to see for ourselves the cold harshness of the world, many just aren't capable of accepting or dealing with it. so they get a bad case of the crazies and go ape shit. its the way the world is evolving, and i'd wager that it will get worse for another 30 or so years, then start to taper off, eventually receeding into memory.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

danimal1384
the mentality to control the populace you do not understand is on factor, another is we have near instant infermation flowing 24/7 that with more dense centered populaces you'll just have more instadents of sht happening just because more people=more problems.

I don't mean to sound like a anti elite conspirisist but any group of well to do humans = elite so when they join forces for any cause (organized religion,goverment,corporations) the likely hood of the the views of the fee being expressed and enacted upon are high, the trouble with the few leading the many, the few live hidden lives and tend not to understand the many thus you get fcked up nuances in morals,regulation and fleecing the public.

Sure I believe in "limited regulation" (de regulation,ban lobbying,legalize drugs, funny thing prostitution is legal its just most states don't want nothing to do with it, why can't we effect more things at the state level?) anyway I am trying not to sound like a loon, but alas I fails

Bascily the elite or thos in the power have always tried to nanny the adult populace in one shape or another, its never been the "media" itself but thos around it seeking to use it for their own gain.

 

[Franz [deprecated]]

i disagree with that, the market from both consumer and production side runs on self interest, companies don't give a damn what they do, if you got enough people(population-wise) behind the stupidest game idea out there, they'd make it, AND WE are all just asking for this stuff(which.. i really do, besides violence, what other game type could you have besides sports and keep it exiting) and most people that matter -to industries- do not mind or seek the violence, therefore what we have.

 

[MorkFromOrk]

Of course a company can create a demand for a product as well as increase the demand for more. Not that much different from porn where 20-30 years ago you could show very little and produce the same result as you can today by showing everything and the kitchen sink with nothing left to the imagination. It's like "Hey, if you liked that well this year we're giving you 5 X more!!!"

Gamers tend to eat up whatever is being fed to them insatiably. How did gamers get to be this way? You can say we're all no better than savage apes and always will be, or you can see how people have been manipulated into desiring a certain product.

Furthermore, for the conspiracy theorists (realists?), I can't help but wonder if there is some grand design to program people to accept violence, view it as necessary, enjoy it, for some larger agenda. Like the fact you see so many pro US military games out every year. Not to mention the fact that while so many people are preoccupied playing video games those who would rule the world for their own selfish ends are out in the real world executing their agenda without resistance.

 

[danimal1384]

mork's final paragraph kinda nailed what i was getting at. and while i'm not some crazy who thinks that everything is a cover-up or some deeper plot, it does seem at times that there is a reason and rhyme to the madness, doesn't it? and not all conspiracies are intentional from the word go either, sometimes they might just stumble onto something that works. so maybe there is a plot to desensitize and program us for the future, but who knows for sure. humans have statistically been getting more violent over the last hundred years or so. maybe thats just the way we are though.

and i'm not trying to simplify whats happening into one thing. there are lots of probable reasons for this growing trend, and maybe this is just one factor. but in any case, we love our blood and guts, so we will keep being delivered that.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

MorkFromOrk
the elite use reverse physiology(or soemthingLOL) in order to effect their goals, this is ok for us but its bad for you.(stealing,breaking laws,ect)

We can do it in private but we don't want you doing it it all(Drugs,gay sex,gay marriage ,ect,ect)

Bascily the more corrupt the elite get the more anal they become in public restricting every liltte thing to give a "appearance of purity" when they them selfs are totally corrupted, its not reverse physiology but theres another term that I cant think of that fits ><

"Violence" has always been enjoyed by the masses from word to story to music,from death sports to normal althetic competition, the way I see it tis not the violence thats the problem its the elite thinking they can clean themselves by removing anything they dismiss as below them publicly.

 

[Franz [deprecated]]

it's called business, the market runs on self interest!, what other form of game could be entertaining excluding sports? the companies only want money, they are not training us, we are begging for this stuff, and they charge us for it, simple as that. if instead of requesting halo3 we'd just go equaly crazy over the next my little pony video game(not that i do *looks around suspiciously*) they would shove the stuff down our throats, instead of halo3 or WoW on 7elevens and on the internet and on the shelves and in every form(even books!!!) we'd have the same for that stuff, they don't give a damn what we do as long as we give them money, they don't even care what we do with it(quite a shame from programmers perspective T.T), if people were willing to buy games as paperweights they'd still produce them and even add better paperholding features to boxes, all they want is money.

 

[UnSub]

That was an interesting article, but I kinda feel that the following debate missed a very important point: the video game industry does release violent games - lots of them that sell very well - but refuses to stand up and take responsibility for that fact. The best known offender, Rockstar, releases games where large-scale graphic violence is a key game mechanic. Yet they keep as low to the ground as possible when their games generate any controversy (how valid that controversy is is a slightly separate issue) and only act when something might impact on sales.

Too many gamers play exactly the same blame game that those pointing at games do regarding violence - they go completely defensive and blame everyone else for the issue. It's bad parenting. It's someone else's fault. Non-gamers don't understand gaming. And so on. Yet lots of games are violent. That seems to be the elephant in the room that no-one associated with games wants to address. No-one wants to say, "Yes, I slaughtered every single Little Sister in BioShock and it was a good gaming experience" on record.

Research has shown that violent games can raise someone's aggression levels for a short period of time, but that it also differs from individual to individual. Further down the track, more research may come to light that builds on this. The gaming industry actually needs to stand up and be willing to publically debate this issue. If they can't do that, they risk being boxed up in some dark corner (along with heavy metal and horror movies) filled with things people don't talk about in polite conversation and marginalise.