Should have WoW ended with WotLK?

[dsawyers9]

This is a question I have been wondering for a bit. At the end of WotLK, each class had at lease 1 spec that was good for one of the two game plays: PvP and PvE. Some classes had two, in my case for PvP: Elemental and Restoration Shamans were gods, as they were also this way in PvE.

However, Cataclysm was the first expansion to this game which had no real purpose. Meaning, there wasn't a lore which was commonly known for this expansion. BC had Illidan Stormrage and WotLK had the LK: aka Arthas Menethil. The only true difference between WoW and its predecessors was the Lore aspect of their game.

People like to complain about WotLK, but just like BC, after playing Cataclysm, I thought to my self: WotLK wasn't all that bad. It allowed people who were not their from day 1 and started to play once the LK dungeons/raid came out to quickly jump in and allow them to play end game content. It was an expansion that pushed WoW's numbers to over 12 million subs.

However, from my experience, while Cataclysm had really fun quests and the new zones were fun to play in, The push for harder instances was a major turn off. I think the marketing of WotLK was right, mainly because its a game and a game isn't suppose to devour your life, but give you something that is fun to do when you have free time. As a college student, I was able to stay equal with everyone else who played 6+ hours a day 7 days a week, while I only played 1-2 hours a day, 3-4 days a week.

Another thing I never understood about the Developers at Blizzard, normal raid mode is suppose to be not easy, but slightly harder than heroic dungeons. Instead normal raids were on a different scale and were way to difficult and blizzard had to nerf it. People say it was because of the QQ'ers, but c'mon really, you going to blame people who don't like to die 3-5 times to a boss they kept getting to 20% health?

Cataclysm was also one of the most buggy expansions I've ever played. I remember the 80-85 grind and I had to stop playing and log off because my character was stuck at level 84 in the transition of the battle of the Alliance vs Horde and we couldn't destroy the Zep. in the Twilight Highlands.

Overall, I enjoyed Cataclysm at the start of the expansion, but as soon as gear started to be important, it was very obvious that certain classes were far better than other classes and the Heroics were not scaled to entry level 85 characters who matched the 329 req.

I quit the game for personal reasons; such as this is my last semester at my college, was getting married, needed more study time, etc. But for my experience, BC and WotLK were some of the best gaming experience I ever had with this MMO, Cataclysm and early WoW was the least fun I had with this MMO.

What's your opinion? Should WoW ended with WotLK? Yes, no, Why?

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

There are two basic angles I can approach this question from. The first, should the game be stopped from a business perspective, is the simplest to answer. In short, that answer is a resounding "no". The property grosses more than a billion dollars per year and in order to maintain a popularity sufficient to earn more than 100 million dollars a month Activision and Blizzard must constantly push forward. From a business perspective, there is no end game save the inglorious end that comes when an MMO is no longer cost effective to maintain and it is left to linger and suffer and eventually pass on to the realm of games that people can no longer officially play. Such is the cruel fate decreed by the simplest demand inherent to all business ventures: so long as it makes money the project must march ever onward.

The harder question to answer is if the game should have ended from a story perspective. By Wrath of the Lich King, players hand ranged across Azeroth and Outland and carved a bloody path of conquest through the villains of those worlds. The schemes of bandits and despots were thwarted countless times all while the Alliance and Hoard engaged in bloody turf wars. In spite of this infighting, the grand agent of an ultimate evil in the universe was eventually brought low and, for the time being it would seem, Azeroth was saved from destruction from without. Where does one go from here where players defeated the very champion of evil in a struggle whose scope is beyond imagination? There are but three avenues. The puppet master might choose a new puppet in his grand work of galactic destruction or, perhaps, might himself arrive on the blood drenched fields of Azeroth in order to finally extinguish the troublesome pocket of resistance or be brought low by the untold millions of minor deities that have long stood in defiance of nihilistic destruction. A great new evil might arise from Azeroth itself, somehow more powerful than all the previous perils the adventurers of the world had faced and conquered, but narritively this seems to be a stretch. Where would this powerhouse arise from and why did it remain silent in the face of demonic invasion. Surely if it held any pretensions of world conquest it would resent such a move by entities so meek in comparison. Or the most fragile of alliances that brought together the various races of the world only to save the world from the legions of hell itself could finally fall apart entirely leading to renewed war between the ragged survivors to be fought over what little remains of worth in the world.

Of the three, it would seem, the latter is the most likely and also the most reasonable. After all, it could place as bosses the major characters that had thus far managed to foil every grand scheme the various enemies of the world might concoct, beings who were provably mighty in the field of combat. In such a conflict, the war could turn from the bitter necessity of survival into wars over the far more relatable concerns of ideals and resources. This route has the advantage of being a font from which to draw a near endless supply of villains and plots and battles to fight for if there is one thing history tells us it is simply that whenever there is something worth having, it is a cause people will invariable take up arms to fight over. But, it would seem, this is not what was chosen.

Likewise, of the three, the least reasonable is for a new puppet to appear. Having so recently felled a champion what real threat is there of another, even if said champion is somehow more powerful still? By contrast, should the grand evil of the universe (or at least it's most visible champion), Sergeras, take the field, what hope can even the united ranks of epic warriors who have defended Azeroth from foes uncountable for nearly a decade have against him? This is an enemy who formed the Burning Legion out of will and fought in countless bloody battles across the stars for millenia. This is not a creature bound by the petty rules of flesh and bone or a creature that must call upon something mightier for power: he is, himself, power. And if, somehow, Sargeras was defeated, what peril does the universe truly have left? Sure there are still other evil powers in the universe but these are powers that Sargeras had himself fought to a standstill; surely they pose no real treat to a group who could against any conceivable odds, bring him down.

The middle road is the one they chose it would seem. It is the least satisfying simply because it all seems like old hat. We've been here before. We have fought grand agents of hate and destruction. We have fought monstrous creatures with pretensions of lordship. Sure, Deathwing is a creature of enormous power but having already bested multiple invasions from other worlds and other realms, having murdered dragons by the score and immortal monsters from beyond time itself, having beaten the very champion of evil in the universe, what threat does Deathwing really present. For all his fire and bluster and armor plated skin he is simply a dragon, a mortal creature of flesh and blood. And if there is one thing WoW has proven it is quite simply that if it can be harmed by any means, it can and will be killed in time.

So, I suppose my conclusion is that there is room for WoW to continue on a narrative front but they chose the worst possible route to explore. The factionalism necessary to foment conflict between Alliance and Hoard has long been an accepted part of the game and the culture surrounding it and would provide an endless canvass upon which new tales of valor and treachery could be painted. Alternately, if we wanted to increase the scope of the threat, Sergeras could simply intervene in the conflict and Azeroth could be the battleground upon which Chaos and Order meet directly. In such a battle the other Titans might be inclined to personally intervene in order to swing the odds such that Azeroth has any hope of winning the field. The former is a route that could sustain WoW until it dies a slow and painful death without ever running out of worthy story to explore while the latter could be reserved for ending the series with a resounding bang and could at least give some meaning and closure to the countless billions of hours spent playing the game around the world. If, in the end, Azeroth stood victorious against evil itself, perhaps the great time sink that is WoW would finally grasp some measure of meaning and purpose in the world to atone for the destruction of countless lives it has aided.

 

[InnerRebellion]

No, because Cataclysm has noticeably made it easier for newer players to get to the endgame. Before Cataclysm, and even before Pre-Cata, which is when I started playing, the grind was dull after the first time. Now, it is not the case.

Wrath was bad, very bad, but that's a different topic.

 

[Hiphophippo]

However, Cataclysm was the first expansion to this game which had no real purpose. Meaning, there wasn't a lore which was commonly known for this expansion.

This is where you lost me. This makes no sense to me.

I disagree about the heroic scaling as well. They were tuned just fine for people in 329 gear. You just had to have a brain. It was a tough transition from wotlk for many people.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. WoW was shit after BC. I just couldn't stand WOTLK anymore and finally quit.

 

[DugMachine]

However, Cataclysm was the first expansion to this game which had no real purpose. Meaning, there wasn't a lore which was commonly known for this expansion.

This is where you lost me. This makes no sense to me.

Indeed. The lore may not commonly be known but story wise it was only a matter of time before Deathwing rose again seeing as how he was only defeated not killed. Just because the lore is not "commonly" known doesn't mean why bother putting it out there or making a whole expansion around it.

Not only that but we still have the Emerald Dream and the Burning Crusade to deal with. We killed Illidan but Sargeras is still out there pumping out demons.

 

[icyneesan]

WoW should have ended before the first expansion and Blizzard should have made Warcraft 4. Then we could all go back to having a rich lore filled RTS in a fantasy realm.

 

[Vault boy Eddie]

WoW will end when Blizzard makes it's next monthly cash cow, and even then it'll be relegated to free to play status.

 

[Hiphophippo]

However, Cataclysm was the first expansion to this game which had no real purpose. Meaning, there wasn't a lore which was commonly known for this expansion.

This is where you lost me. This makes no sense to me.

Indeed. The lore may not commonly be known but story wise it was only a matter of time before Deathwing rose again seeing as how he was only defeated not killed. Just because the lore is not "commonly" known doesn't mean why bother putting it out there or making a whole expansion around it.

Not only that but we still have the Emerald Dream and the Burning Crusade to deal with. We killed Illidan but Sargeras is still out there pumping out demons.

This doesn't even mention that one of the biggest selling points on the back of the Burning Crusade box was part of Deathwing's Story Arc. Just because the OP had only played Warcraft 3 previously does not mean Blizzard should just forget the first 2 ever happened.

Also, to you Dugmachine, if I recall the Emerald Dream nightmare was handled in a novel. But to be fair, I've neither read it, or followed much on Wow lore since I stopped playing.

Why did I stop? Just wasn't fun anymore. Not Cataclysm's fault though as I think it's the best the game has ever been. I think after 3 expansions I'm just over it.

 

[Hiphophippo]

WoW will end when Blizzard makes it's next monthly cash cow, and even then it'll be relegated to free to play status.

It's hard to say if you're right. Sony still makes money on the original EQ, but Turbine is making a killing of it's f2p games. I suppose we'll see.

 

[DugMachine]

However, Cataclysm was the first expansion to this game which had no real purpose. Meaning, there wasn't a lore which was commonly known for this expansion.

This is where you lost me. This makes no sense to me.

Indeed. The lore may not commonly be known but story wise it was only a matter of time before Deathwing rose again seeing as how he was only defeated not killed. Just because the lore is not "commonly" known doesn't mean why bother putting it out there or making a whole expansion around it.

Not only that but we still have the Emerald Dream and the Burning Crusade to deal with. We killed Illidan but Sargeras is still out there pumping out demons.

This doesn't even mention that one of the biggest selling points on the back of the Burning Crusade box was part of Deathwing's Story Arc. Just because the OP had only played Warcraft 3 previously does not mean Blizzard should just forget the first 2 ever happened.

Also, to you Dugmachine, if I recall the Emerald Dream nightmare was handled in a novel. But to be fair, I've neither read it, or followed much on Wow lore since I stopped playing.

Why did I stop? Just wasn't fun anymore. Not Cataclysm's fault though as I think it's the best the game has ever been. I think after 3 expansions I'm just over it.

Yeah I canceled my subscription just last week and have one month left of play time. Been playing since release and its kind of lost its appeal to me. Plus i've been so swamped with college that I have no time to raid like I used to.

I'll probably be back one day, we all do! But for now I cut off all ties and made a dwarf warrior (my first toon ever) on a new server to level up and explore one last time if this really is the last time i'll ever be back.

 

[oplinger]

This is a question I have been wondering for a bit. At the end of WotLK, each class had at lease 1 spec that was good for one of the two game plays: PvP and PvE. Some classes had two, in my case for PvP: Elemental and Restoration Shamans were gods, as they were also this way in PvE.

*pat* that's adorable. ...haha..gods I like you. such an imaginative little one.

However, Cataclysm was the first expansion to this game which had no real purpose. Meaning, there wasn't a lore which was commonly known for this expansion. BC had Illidan Stormrage and WotLK had the LK: aka Arthas Menethil. The only true difference between WoW and its predecessors was the Lore aspect of their game.

So you're saying Deathwing is not in Warcraft's lore at all? Did you skip over WC2? Also Cataclysm I believe stems from a book, rather than the actual lore of the games (...Actually many things stem from the books now.)

People like to complain about WotLK, but just like BC, after playing Cataclysm, I thought to my self: WotLK wasn't all that bad. It allowed people who were not their from day 1 and started to play once the LK dungeons/raid came out to quickly jump in and allow them to play end game content. It was an expansion that pushed WoW's numbers to over 12 million subs.

..No, Wrath was building off of a flawed concept and retarded mechanics. It was the wrong direction. BC was the start of it, they didn't really know where to go, so they added combat ratings (crit rating, hit rating, spell penetration) Wrath came along, added more and then made them bigger so players could effectively win a fight through sheer brute force of numbers rather than actual skill and thought put into their abilities. Tanks were rated on health, healers on spell power, DPS all had one stat or combat rating they had to go for, and everythign else must be ignored. This broke the game and caused us to have no variation, All tanks were the same, or left behind. All DPS were the same or left behind. And it was further perpetuated by places like Elitist Jerks, who are frequntly wrong. But no one cares because people are stupid, and if something works better than how they were doing it, it's the most amazing thing ever. *breath* ...It was a bad direction. I'll leave it at that.

However, from my experience, while Cataclysm had really fun quests and the new zones were fun to play in, The push for harder instances was a major turn off. I think the marketing of WotLK was right, mainly because its a game and a game isn't suppose to devour your life, but give you something that is fun to do when you have free time. As a college student, I was able to stay equal with everyone else who played 6+ hours a day 7 days a week, while I only played 1-2 hours a day, 3-4 days a week.

Whine, whine, whine. They specifically wanted to -avoid- this. The giant negative stigma WoW has developed was starting to affect them. Not to mention they put their foot down with cata, as whiners don't always get what they want. Cata was a step back to classic, not a complete step back, but it was a good direction. The revamped zones and quests were to bring in new people, the harder instances were to appease those looking for a challenge. If you can't invest time into the game, you won't get the same rewards. That's how this works. That's how it should work. It's a game, but so is Monopoly. I don't get to spend 20 minutes in Monopoly and walk away with all the property. It's just not how shit works.

Another thing I never understood about the Developers at Blizzard, normal raid mode is suppose to be not easy, but slightly harder than heroic dungeons. Instead normal raids were on a different scale and were way to difficult and blizzard had to nerf it. People say it was because of the QQ'ers, but c'mon really, you going to blame people who don't like to die 3-5 times to a boss they kept getting to 20% health?

It probebly was because of "QQ'ers" blizzard doesn't really play WoW as much as people may assume. So they rely on player feedback. ..Which is usually people bitching and moaning.

Also yes, I will blame just those sorts of people. It's probably their fault we're dying anyway. Or some other idiot who shouldn't be in on the raid. "What little Timmy? you're only in quest greens? AHA come on down to this raid and we'll carry you" shouldn't work anymore. >.>

Cataclysm was also one of the most buggy expansions I've ever played. I remember the 80-85 grind and I had to stop playing and log off because my character was stuck at level 84 in the transition of the battle of the Alliance vs Horde and we couldn't destroy the Zep. in the Twilight Highlands.

All the expansions have had their share of bugs. All of them. Cataclysm was no different. Cataclysm was a crazy level of ambitious though. Unlike Wrath or BC. Do you not play on patch days? The game breaks for an entire day usually, and bugs are everywhere. Then after a billion hotfixes, it works okay. It's been that way since the beginning of time.

Overall, I enjoyed Cataclysm at the start of the expansion, but as soon as gear started to be important, it was very obvious that certain classes were far better than other classes and the Heroics were not scaled to entry level 85 characters who matched the 329 req.

329 is fine. I've done heroics as everything in 329 gear. The problem people have is cataclysm is different than wrath. 80% of the people I used to play WOW with have turned into drooling idiots at the game, when they used to be really good. It was just a small shift though. You try to play Cata like Wrath and you are going to fail. They did that on purpose. And heroics are supposed to be hard. ..They did that on purpose too.

I quit the game for personal reasons; such as this is my last semester at my college, was getting married, needed more study time, etc. But for my experience, BC and WotLK were some of the best gaming experience I ever had with this MMO, Cataclysm and early WoW was the least fun I had with this MMO.

What's your opinion? Should WoW ended with WotLK? Yes, no, Why?

If it wasn't going to get Cata? Yes it should have ended, stacking onto Wrath would have been a terrible choice, and I think the franchise should die right then.

Cataclysm was a massive thing for WoW, and put it back on a good track to become something more fun than just powering through everything like Wrath. It's a small stepping stone, and mistakes will be made, but overall it's for the better.

 

[loc978]

Warcraft should have faded into obscurity after the travesty that was Warcraft 3...

But that's just one little bear's opinion.
A cute, fuzzy little bear.

 

[technoted]

However, Cataclysm was the first expansion to this game which had no real purpose. Meaning, there wasn't a lore which was commonly known for this expansion. BC had Illidan Stormrage and WotLK had the LK: aka Arthas Menethil. The only true difference between WoW and its predecessors was the Lore aspect of their game.

No lore? Are you trolling? Deathwing's lore is far more interesting than both Illidan and Arthas combined, just because he didn't make an appearance in Warcraft 3 doesn't mean he's not as important. There's a tonne of other lore from Warcraft 2 that a lot of people want to see have some form of answer.

And why complain that it's harder than it was before, it's a good thing, it was too easy in Wrath, it's much better to make a game challenging than insanely easy, gives it a longer lifespan.

And finally to answer your question on should WoW have ended after WotLK, no, it should not have ended.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

People have to actually manage their mana now, I'd say that's a good change.

 

[Madkipz]

If you start playing in about half a year or so it will be wotlk all over again so. i fail to see things your pow.

MMOs should have stopped long time ago though. they consume too much time with no purpose added to it. What essentially became clear to me after clearing cataclysm is that if you take away the people then there is nothing left ot enjoy. The game is simply put a shitty hub based pve game.

 

[Trolldor]

WoW should have ended on the planning table.

/Thread

 

[Xannieros]

No, because Cataclysm has noticeably made it easier for newer players to get to the endgame. Before Cataclysm, and even before Pre-Cata, which is when I started playing, the grind was dull after the first time. Now, it is not the case.

Wrath was bad, very bad, but that's a different topic.

Don't know what you're talking about. WotLK was much easier to get to end game raid content, and easier content. Cataclysm pushed it back, much harder for people to get to the content.

I think WoW should have ended at WotLK.

Rant on WoW

Spoiler

And the grind for gear is harder. Now to get gear for raids you have to rep grind, and do heroics for FULL gear. Most groups won't you in unless you're well geared.. Before you could just do heroics and get into raids, or even be in half gear.

Actually I quit WoW just because the game has turned into a full time chore. You need to do dailies to get reputation, daily heroic, grind out gear from heroics.

PvP is unbalanced and they can't fix it. The differences between ungeared and geared is huuuuge. Someone wanting to start out PvPing will most likely have a horrible time.

Their story is so full of holes the game just doesn't make much sense anymore. Blizzard's grasping for content.