I agree with your position.Rewdalf said:
Sorry, he summed it up pretty well. The only difference is I am a natural-born citizen.
Should Illegal Immigrants have the same rights as U.S. citizens?
- Thread starter scorptatious
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Sorry, he summed it up pretty well. The only difference is I am a natural-born citizen.
well, illegal immigrants had the initiative to illegally enter the country, whereas my path to citizenship consisted of doing absolutely nothing.
in all seriousness, as convoluted, degrading, and inefficient as our immigration process is, its the process, and those that go through it (such as my great-grandparents) are 1000x times more deserving to be here than some guy who did nothing..like, uh...me, but i mean illegals to.
the path to citizenship may be ludicrous, but its not like we're obligated to take in immigrants to begin with; illegals undermine everyone who worked to get their citizenship, its kinda right there in the name. the only right they should have beyond basic human dignity is the right to leave quietly and try the legal way to get in.
in all seriousness, as convoluted, degrading, and inefficient as our immigration process is, its the process, and those that go through it (such as my great-grandparents) are 1000x times more deserving to be here than some guy who did nothing..like, uh...me, but i mean illegals to.
the path to citizenship may be ludicrous, but its not like we're obligated to take in immigrants to begin with; illegals undermine everyone who worked to get their citizenship, its kinda right there in the name. the only right they should have beyond basic human dignity is the right to leave quietly and try the legal way to get in.
Also, most illegal immigrants pay taxes, so they should be able to rely on cops to show up, they should be able to send their kids to school, public school.Dags90 said:It's not that cut and dry, but getting citizenship in this country is an extremely long process that can often cost more than just time. I know someone who's partner has been trying to become a legal citizen for over five years. The OP's suggestion that you just "register yourself as a citizen" and are on your way after a minimum amount of effort is ridiculous.Neptunus Hirt said:This thread reminds me of something I found a few months ago.
[http://imgur.com/4iPVK.jpg]
Admittedly, I'm not entirely sure how accurate this thing is, but I'm sure someone with a bit more knowledge on the subject could verify or debunk it for us.
Obviously illegal immigrants shouldn't be able to vote, and there's no "right to attend college" or "right to have a job".
All in all I have no idea what the OP is talking about.
I could go on and on, but, I also want to point out that, those who are most vocal about sending illegals home are usually those who don't even pay their taxes!
I wouldn't expect to be allowed a helping from their pantry if I broke into someone's house. They would have every right to kick me the hell out and call the police.
I feel the exact same way about illegal immigrants. I agree that diversity helped bring America into the forefront (sorry my great-great-great grandpa's stole your colony England
) but that doesn't mean people have a right to break in and live from our lands without paying taxes.
I feel the exact same way about illegal immigrants. I agree that diversity helped bring America into the forefront (sorry my great-great-great grandpa's stole your colony England
) but that doesn't mean people have a right to break in and live from our lands without paying taxes.
It depends on what rights you are talking about, now I'm Australian, but here's an idea I'm going to throw out. Make it the law that you have to pay illegal immigrants the same amount as citizens (minium wage or whatever). It may seem counter-productive, but if employers could get in to trouble not only for hiring illegal immigrants but underpaying them, that would be more of a discouragement. Then if you're going to pay the same anyway, you'll prefer to hire a citizen who can speak the language and is less of a risk of getting in trouble.
As for other stuff...well shit it's not my problem.
As for other stuff...well shit it's not my problem.
Sourcing my earlier statement:Vryyk said:I wouldn't expect to be allowed a helping from their pantry if I broke into someone's house. They would have every right to kick me the hell out and call the police.
I feel the exact same way about illegal immigrants. I agree that diversity helped bring America into the forefront (sorry my great-great-great grandpa's stole your colony England
USA Today [http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm]
PalmBeach Post [http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/illegal-immigrants-paying-taxes-621300.html]
NyTimes [http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/19/business/19illegals.html]
All US citizens are x-generation immigrants, as the only locals are the indians - or what remains of them after their genocide. So your choices boil down to: equal rights to all immigrants; or less rights to newcomers in order to exploit them (also called: the american way).
^ Basically this! I mean you made it past the physical exam for citizenship, now comes the written part.Irony said:
Here's a list of all the fees and forms associated with becoming a citizen: link [http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=db029c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=db029c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRDD]. A rough estimate puts the total cost of obtaining a green card and then becoming a naturalized citizen at around $1,000. I wonder what these forms actually look like, I can't imagine something named "N-400" being particularly nice.Neptunus Hirt said:
The Rights of Free Speech? Ya, I don't see why not.
The Right to Bear Arms? Nope. A lot of illegal immigrants end up picking up odd jobs and a lot of them I would expect become criminals in urban areas. I think the last thing I would want is for them to be able to buy a handgun.
They should have certain rights, all humans should, I would prefer if they came into the country legally, but that's probably not gonna happen until we stop hiring them over here and I don't see that happening any time soon.
The Right to Bear Arms? Nope. A lot of illegal immigrants end up picking up odd jobs and a lot of them I would expect become criminals in urban areas. I think the last thing I would want is for them to be able to buy a handgun.
They should have certain rights, all humans should, I would prefer if they came into the country legally, but that's probably not gonna happen until we stop hiring them over here and I don't see that happening any time soon.
Ooooooooooor give them basic human rights, but make them earn citizenship. I mean it's not rocket science. Secondly Everyone who was involved with the kicking out of the Indians are DEAD!!xdiesp said:
Sins of the the Father shouldn't carry over to the next generation. Especially if they have hindsight of what happened.
I LOOOOOVE how illegal immigration in the United States discussions are always just a slightly vague form of racism. We know that you aren't talking about "illegal immigrants". You're talking about Mexicans, because they're really the largest illegal immigrant demographic. Nobody would give a fuck if someone popped on down from Canada and decided never to go home, just like nobody would ever care if someone from Eastern Asia or fucking Belgium decided to just never go home.
Say what you mean.
Say what you mean.
Not only do they pay taxes, they rarely ever file taxes at the end of the year, so they never see a DIME of their refund. They pay more taxes than I do!Hafrael said:
We could argue all week about transgressions perpetrated by people long since dead. What about what the Roman Empire did to most of Europe? What about what England did to the Jews, or the wholesale slaughter of African villages by African tribesmen?xdiesp said:
Calling me a racist or an proponent of genocide because I happen to share a skin color with people who did bad things in years long past is racism, but this goes overlooked because white people were the last ones holding the bag.
Am I condoning what they did? Certainly not, it was wrong to invade a land and kill the people. But it was nothing new, how do you think England got it's current tenants, or many European countries for that matter?
We can't patch up the crimes of our forefathers with racial guilt and an insulting mortar of handouts, all we can do is make goddamn sure we never do it again.
If that thing is mostly accurate, it just shows that the legal path to become a citizen should be loosed up a bit. I understand that the US government (on both a federal and state level) doesn't want criminals or freeloaders coming here, but some of the hoops you have to jump through if you don't have relatives already legally living here are ridiculous. This country was created through immigration, I don't think it should be that hard for people from other countries to move here. For the most part immigrants are generally willing to work harder than the average American just to make a living here, so its not like all the worthless people from other countries come here to bum around. Plus illegal immigration wouldn't be as much of a problem if it were easier to get into the nation legally.Neptunus Hirt said:This thread reminds me of something I found a few months ago.
[http://imgur.com/4iPVK.jpg]
Admittedly, I'm not entirely sure how accurate this thing is, but I'm sure someone with a bit more knowledge on the subject could verify or debunk it for us.