Should Illegal Immigrants have the same rights as U.S. citizens?
- Thread starter scorptatious
- Start date
I don't know what other people are thinking of, but I certainly think of Mexicans when discussing illegal immigration. Personally, I have NO issue with some one who was born with brown skin in a country south of ours, but what I do have an issue with is the vocal portion of them. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and pretend they aren't the majority, but I feel like whoever has the loudest voice is also a rude mutherfucker. For every good hard working Mexican we don't see, I see 10 more refusing to learn the country's language (don't give me that no official language bullshit. No one speaks french here and expects the rest of American to know it or cater to them), living off of welfare, and even joining gangs and becoming murderers. I have a friend who has a friend who lost a dad to an illegal Mexican in California, because he felt the need to shoot him for his $500 car. Supposedly, this guy was the overly compassionate type too, so his death was even more needless and tragic.Snake Plissken said:
The point is, they are our guests here, and they as a culture are plain rude, acting like we owe them. You don't get any of that from west Europeans or Asians (Excluding a small minority. Small enough to not shake the perception of the rest of their race to the rest of America). They know they are in some one else's country, and they don't expect anyone to cater to them.
They could claim a 0 on their W2 and get everything back and pay no taxes. It's not like there is a record of them in the country for the IRS to go for. It certainly is what I would consider in their situation. That is assuming they aren't being paid under the table in the first place. I doubt many employers are even able to cover up hiring an illegal if they aren't under the table.Snake Plissken said:
OT: As far as I'm concerned, they should have human rights, but not any basic rights that a citizen of the country they are in are offered. Not everywhere has freedom of speech, so why should they have freedom of speech of they aren't an American citizen? I don't want massive amounts of illegals running protests and rallies because they want something in the government changed. It's not their country, they don't have the right to screw it up for us because they are allowed to be loud
This is all assuming we go though some immigration reform. That chart on the first page was despicable. Just make it so that anyone who comes into the country gets a background check so that we aren't letting criminals in, and give them a limited time to be on welfare. If they are truly coming here for work, they shouldn't need welfare, and they shouldn't have a violent criminal record because they are hard workers supporting their families. Also put them on a probationary period where any misdemeanor or felony gets them instantly deported with any friends or family that came over at the same time.
They deserve basic inalienable human rights, as do everyone else. But, when it comes to rights granted to citizens of whichever country they're emigrating to, no illegal immigrant should be able to receive those rights. They are here illegally, without any regard to the process set in place for them to become citizens. Sadly, the process(in America, for example)is so convoluted, so time-consuming, so daunting, so complicated it takes years, decades even for an immigrant to become a resident, let alone a citizen. For many immigrants, it's a scary thing, seeing all the hoops they have to jump through for a green card. So, in my theory, many of them don't go through with it out of fear. Now, perhaps if the process was made easier to understand, was more streamlined, simpler, perhaps more lenient, then maybe those same immigrants would be willing to go through the process of becoming a citizen. Unfortunately, any change made to the system, especially a change of such a magnitude required of the situation, would take months. It could even take years. Keep in mind that the system has become more complicated over the years. We also have to remember that many immigrants are coming from Mexico to the US in such high numbers because of the drug wars raging across places like Chihuahua, Cuidad Juarez, and Michoacan. If I remember correctly, almost 30,000 people have been killed in drug-related violence since 2006. Entire families have been slaughtered, cops killed, city officials kidnapped and tortured. With things the way they are, it's not surprising so many immigrants go to the US. They're fleeing what is practically a war. When it comes to immigrants from Mexico, the last thing they want is to be deported. For some of them, that would practically be a death sentence, especially when the cartels are involved.
I sure do hope all of you had the Mexican drug war in mind when coming up with your responses, because it has a very important impact on illegal immigration.
I sure do hope all of you had the Mexican drug war in mind when coming up with your responses, because it has a very important impact on illegal immigration.
It's bad enough that for some, the relationship between the USA and the rest of the world becomes a "racial" matter. As if the concept of race had any place in the 21st century or the USA had not been built by immigrants from all over the world.Vryyk said:
But the worst part is that one should get that it's not about feeling guilty: it's about acting as if you've actually learnt something. Indian reservations were working full power (if you know what I mean) just a couple hundreds years ago, which is peanuts to european standards. With that in mind, people claiming birthplace rights against non-natives starts steering in the grotesque soon.
Surely the matter should stay more political, and less populist. Economy, economy, economy. But then you'll find out that the matter would immediately lose grip over those blatering slogans red in the face.
Even if it's true, the process being hard and taking time doesn't mean it's cool for people to just come over illegally instead and inspect to be entitled to jobs, college, health care, and all sorts of other stuff. They have entered illegally and are therefore criminals, so the only thing they are entitled to is one of those nifty kicks-out-the-door in your picture.Neptunus Hirt said:This thread reminds me of something I found a few months ago.
[http://imgur.com/4iPVK.jpg]
Admittedly, I'm not entirely sure how accurate this thing is, but I'm sure someone with a bit more knowledge on the subject could verify or debunk it for us.
It's important to remember that most illegal immigrants are not here by choice. They don't want to steal our jobs and undermine our economy or whatever lunacy the opposition is making up. They're here, usually, because they have families to feed but absolutely no means to do so in their home country, for a variety of reasons. They might also be refugees who desperately need to be somewhere other than a third-world camp forty miles from a war zone. The point is, they're here by necessity, not because they're lazy or are up to no good. No, they probably shouldn't get the full rights of a citizen. However, we also shouldn't deport them simply because they didn't have the time or the ability to go through the ludicrously dense application process, only to be rejected at the last minute due to a technicality. They may be here illegally, but it's immoral and pointless to send them back purely for that reason.
The ironic thing is that the United States could not function without illegal immigrants. They're the poor bastards who have no choice but to do the nastiest, hardest, and lowest-paying jobs--necessary jobs, but something most people do their best to avoid--because they can't get much better without citizenship. The people who decry letting illegal immigration slide certainly don't mind having illegal Nicaraguans and Somalis doing their gardening, cleaning their house, working their fields, and taking out their garbage for them.
The ironic thing is that the United States could not function without illegal immigrants. They're the poor bastards who have no choice but to do the nastiest, hardest, and lowest-paying jobs--necessary jobs, but something most people do their best to avoid--because they can't get much better without citizenship. The people who decry letting illegal immigration slide certainly don't mind having illegal Nicaraguans and Somalis doing their gardening, cleaning their house, working their fields, and taking out their garbage for them.
Uhh, what claims? I can try to find that article about the guy who murdered my friend's friend's dad, but other than that... what? If you want me to source "rude mutherfuckers," look no further than the nearest object or service that includes a Spanish option. Back when I went to church, they even had a Spanish service, and I don't live in what I consider a densely Latino populated area. That could be a bad example without knowing more details, but I know if I made the decision to move to another country and still wanted to worship, I'm not going to say a word about them offering an English service for me, even if I knew a few other English speakers who also attended. That's a lot of extra work for the staff of the church, along with assuming there is a priest present that can speak English in whatever country I'm in.Hafrael said:
It's just rude to think you are more important than the people already living where you are moving to. Learn the customs, and try to integrate. You left your country to get away from however things were back there. You didn't move to change the way things are here so you feel "more at home." You left home to get away, remember?
Thank you, I honestly don't know where I stand though.scorptatious said:
I believe anyone should be able to get in because land is land, but I think our means of doing so should be easier so that we don't have the anchor baby problem feeding off our economy.
Also the "Black/citizenship rights" amendment (the 13th? pardon if I don't remember the number, I JUST woke up and I'm in a rush) REALLY needs to be rewritten.
The way it's written is "Anyone born in the US is a citizen"
so that "Anchor baby" thing I mentioned is
a mexican couple will get 9 months pregnant then hope the border and have their kid
by the way it's written their kid IS a citizen
and we can't take a kid away from it's parents at that age for some reason, so they get to stay here for free
again I don't know all the rules or where I stand really.
I just feel land is land and everyone has a right to it, but that's just me I guess
still unsure, it's a very complicated subject.
When I say source your claims I mean, source this specifically:Signa said:
They do pay taxes, and they generally pay more taxes than you. Just because you would want to cheat the system doesn't mean that everyone does.
I doubt many people really support them having the same rights as a citizen, however basic humans rights should still be afforded, which is what I think whoever you heard was probably talking about.scorptatious said:
Well the USA was made on illegal immigration, the settlers from Europe came and illegally stole the land from the Natives etc.
And on the statue of liberty it says:"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
Even refusing people into the country goes against this, but obviously that can't happen due to overpopulation etc.
And on the statue of liberty it says:"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
Even refusing people into the country goes against this, but obviously that can't happen due to overpopulation etc.
Second. it doesn't make sense if citizenship is made valueless. I'm not saying I don't believe they shouldn't have basic human rights as outlined by the constitution, but citizenship is there for the convenience of the State and, therefore, the people.Irony said:
With a fucking watertight arguement like this one, such a question should rendered moot.Sir John the Net Knight said:
outside of the basic human rights, what rights do you deserve for hopping a few fucking fences and stealing someone else's identity so you can live your idea of the easy life? (I say your idea because there's a lot of illegal immigrants in California that go back and forth to mexico and earn a few dollars a day and take that money home and live pretty nice for a few weeks before deciding to come back)