Should the death sentence be used more?

[Leg End]

But who are you to judge if they are unworthy of living?

To respond to the Mars bit, I hope Negadon awakens and comes to earth. :/

Same point as before, who is to judge who is unworhy? You would be making the exact same decision they made to kill another, with no way to justify it without justifying their reason.

Now... the next bit brings in many more issues. What if someone lives in a certain place out of necessity? Be it job, family or what have you? Then, they have no choice to put up with murder.

Who has that right? No one? Ok. Now comes the fun part.

Someone is in the next room. You hear them about to kill a family member. You have a fully loaded gun, one in the chamber. But, sorry, you can't use it. You don't have the right to make the decision on their fate. You hear the family member pass. You hole your self up in the room and call the authorities. They get there just in time, but they can't do anything as they don't have the right to do what it would take to stop your attacker, to kill him.

There is a line that has to be drawn. In a scenario like this self defense does play with you, but not on the defense of the family member. The people in this scenario are just variables. The family member could be someone you don't know. The authorities could be a neighbor instead. The point of this is to show that there is justification, and because there is a justification and a standard, there must be a judge, and there must be an enforcer. What gives these roles the right? Some of it is the community and some of it will be taken on by those who will to fill the requirement.

Mix this into what has already been stated in the my previous post and you'll see what I'm getting at. This post is not my answer to the thread, but the answer to LegendaryGamer's quoted post.

Even then, there is also the argument that even if you move, other states are still committing murder. But, I am not even touching that one.

Hopefully it doesn't keep you awake at night.

No, in that case, you have the right to protect the assaulted person with necessary force. Lethal force is necessary. The only time you can justify killing another, only because they pose a grave and immediate threat to someone else.

No, I am kept up at night by the pseudo-fear of the police busting down my door and arresting me on bullshit charges or killing me and making it look like I attacked them.

Or the FBI unpersoning me.

Whichever it is for that night.

I have not had a good night's rest in over a fucking year. (O_O)

 

[YouEatLard]

No, in that case, you have the right to protect the assaulted person with necessary force. Lethal force is necessary. The only time you can justify killing another, only because they pose a grave and immediate threat to someone else.

No, I am kept up at night by the pseudo-fear of the police busting down my door and arresting me on bullshit charges or killing me and making it look like I attacked them.

Or the FBI unpersoning me.

Whichever it is for that night.

I have not had a good night's rest in over a fucking year. (O_O)

Do not get me wrong. I have seen your points through every post, including this one. They are solid points.

I just have a different point of view on the matter.

I lived in 6 different states growing up, and moved around more after leaving the nest. Because of this I see nothing forcing a human to occupy an area.

I have been shipped off to places where I could not talk to who I wanted or when I wanted. I could not leave or go where I wanted. Entertainment was largely limited to books and the list available was predetermined and/or out of my control. I had to eat when I was allowed. I could only sleep when allowed. I had to do hard manual labor. I had to shower in mass showers with others. I was forced to live with others and privacy was largely non-existent. My stay would be lengthened or shortened, and I had no say or influence on this variable. There was worry of attack. In many ways the life of a member in the armed forces can be compared to imprisonment and yet people stick around. Guess what. We got used to it. So will long term inmates.

So to me, besides the company that would be living with an inmate (which isn't considered when a person is sentenced), imprisonment doesn't seem like it's even close to a fitting as a threat or correctional tactic. Hell, they could even murder/rape while in the facility. If it was a functional scare tactic to keep people from killing we shouldn't have as many murder cases.

This being the case, all I see in life sentences is our community keeping offenders out of the public for a time (to limit further damage). Even if this time period is for "life" they still have a chance to get out, maybe get out early, and possibly get revenge and/or inflict further damage afterward.

I see the effect, life or extreme sentences as falling far short from the cause that put them there. [rant]This isn't about revenge either. I could just as well fight to have these people left in a cell with 3-5 Gorillas hyped up on PCP and viagra. Or left in a room with family members granted immunity. Now that would be revenge. [/rant]

Because of the above, the only logical solution I see is to remove offenders from the living population. Is our justice system perfect? Hell no. Can/Does it make mistakes. There is no question. However execution does still appear to be the best logical solution given the tools we currently have available. I am willing to leave Mars and gorillas on the table though (laugh damn it ).

 

[EvanJO]

If someone is found to be guilty (that is, proven guilty without a shadow of doubt) of rape, child molestation, or pre-meditated murder in the first degree, they should be sentenced to death by firing squad no later then a day after the trial.

That simple.

 

[theNater]

This would probably be considered cruel and unusual, but the problem with these penalties is clearly that the punishment has yet to be a full and proper deterence of the act. Not enough people are afraid of life in jail and coming out only when they're old and gray, if that. Not enough people are afraid of dying in some fashion. If they did, this wouldn't still be happening and this discussion wouldn't be had. So, what's left? Well, unfortunately, pain and suffering is. Unless you've got a better idea.

Do you really think criminals are saying to themselves "If I kill this person, I'll go to jail for 20 years. Yeah, I'll take that deal."?

It's likely that most criminals either aren't thinking about consequences at all, or believe they won't be caught. Changing the penalty waiting for them after they get caught them isn't going to change their behavior in either case.

 

[bader0]

I think it should be used more, Hell why do inmates on death row take o long to die? Convict them, bring them out back and put a bullet in their head.

This, ya could argue that there's a lot of convictions where the person was innocent, but there's even more where it was blatantly obvious that the person was guilty, described it in detail, then laughed about it. Throwing him on death row for 25 years, and using tax payers money to keep him fed, sheltered and healthy is just lame. It's sad that someone in jail could get a toothache, go to the site doctor to get fixed, and sit back in their cell sucking a lollipop by weeks end. But then a tax payer does the same thing, and ends up with a $750 bill at the end cuz he finds out his insurance doesn't cover what he needed done.

Well, this argument of course only works in those backwater, third-world countries where routine medical procedures regularly bankrupt people due to a non-functioning care-system.

Additionally, you might wanna find someone who has actually been in prison and have nice chat with him, about how much golly fun it is to lose control over your life and be deprived of your freedom.
Best find somebody who tried to kill himself while in prison,
I hear there are one or two people who tried to do that for whatever silly reason.
(Seriously dude, if you think prison is fun or IN ANY WAY preferable to live outside of prison, you might want to get your head chec... oh shit, forgot, that´s expensive. Dammit.)

i should probably refrain from low content posts but basically this is awesome

 

[Leg End]

No, in that case, you have the right to protect the assaulted person with necessary force. Lethal force is necessary. The only time you can justify killing another, only because they pose a grave and immediate threat to someone else.

No, I am kept up at night by the pseudo-fear of the police busting down my door and arresting me on bullshit charges or killing me and making it look like I attacked them.

Or the FBI unpersoning me.

Whichever it is for that night.

I have not had a good night's rest in over a fucking year. (O_O)

Do not get me wrong. I have seen your points through every post, including this one. They are solid points.

I just have a different point of view on the matter.

I lived in 6 different states growing up, and moved around more after leaving the nest. Because of this I see nothing forcing a human to occupy an area.

I have been shipped off to places where I could not talk to who I wanted or when I wanted. I could not leave or go where I wanted. Entertainment was largely limited to books and the list available was predetermined and/or out of my control. I had to eat when I was allowed. I could only sleep when allowed. I had to do hard manual labor. I had to shower in mass showers with others. I was forced to live with others and privacy was largely non-existent. My stay would be lengthened or shortened, and I had no say or influence on this variable. There was worry of attack. In many ways the life of a member in the armed forces can be compared to imprisonment and yet people stick around.

So to me, besides the company that would be living with an inmate (which isn't considered when a person is sentenced), imprisonment doesn't seem like it's even close to a fitting as a threat or correctional tactic. Hell, they could even murder/rape while in the facility. If it was a functional scare tactic to keep people from killing we shouldn't have as many murder cases.

This being the case, all I see in life sentences is our community keeping offenders out of the public for a time (to limit further damage). Even if this time period is for "life" they still have a chance to get out, maybe get out early, and possibly get revenge and/or inflict further damage afterward.

I see the effect, life or extreme sentences as falling far short from the cause that put them there. [rant]This isn't about revenge either. I could just as well fight to have these people left in a cell with 3-5 Gorillas hyped up on PCP and viagra. Or left in a room with family members granted immunity. Now that would be revenge. [/rant]

Because of the above, the only logical solution I see is to remove offenders from the living population. Is our justice system perfect? Hell no. Can/Does it make mistakes. There is no question. However execution does still appear to be the best logical solution given the tools we currently have available. I am willing to leave Mars and gorillas on the table though (laugh damn it ).

I thank you for the compliment.

As we all do.

I have lived in this state my whole life and plan to stay here because of my grandparents(one dead, the other not doing to good these days), my mother and sister and for my future daughter.

You... have certainly gone through hell. (O_O)

The death penalty isn't truly a deterrent either. :/ Neither one really is. People will do what they do. :/

If they warrant life in prison, the odds of them getting out at all, under any circumstances is incredibly slim. Though, if there was any major chance of them actually re-offending, they wouldn't be released to begin with, though I'll give you the fact that it does happen. :/

But, it differs on what actually put them there. In certain cases, someone could be killed for something far more trivial than Mr. Serial Killer Of Lolis. :/

Because of the above, and for other reasons, I believe life imprisonment to be a better solution, also fits as a more grueling punishment depending on the person.

As I mentioned before, Negadon would awaken and kill us you all, including the gorillas.

 

[FalloutJack]

This would probably be considered cruel and unusual, but the problem with these penalties is clearly that the punishment has yet to be a full and proper deterence of the act. Not enough people are afraid of life in jail and coming out only when they're old and gray, if that. Not enough people are afraid of dying in some fashion. If they did, this wouldn't still be happening and this discussion wouldn't be had. So, what's left? Well, unfortunately, pain and suffering is. Unless you've got a better idea.

Do you really think criminals are saying to themselves "If I kill this person, I'll go to jail for 20 years. Yeah, I'll take that deal."?

It's likely that most criminals either aren't thinking about consequences at all, or believe they won't be caught. Changing the penalty waiting for them after they get caught them isn't going to change their behavior in either case.

Well, I'll tell you what. If you go do something wrong, get convicted, and then proceed in having your feet and hands lopped off while a live snake is shove up your ass...and the people who get wind of it in one way or another DON'T react in a "Holy shit!" manner denoting a sudden desire to go straight...then I owe you a coke.

(In all seriousness, we're not allowed to punish people BEFORE they do it, so the only even-remotely-lawful way I could think of was to impress upon people that you don't get off easy anymore. No, most people DON'T think this stuff through, but if we don't do something that COULD make them think, we're not even trying.)

 

[Hairetos]

Every single time a person is convicted of rape or murder.

But, in the former, you would be sentencing them to a fate worse than the crime.

Not necessarily. They destroyed at least one life... you destroy one life.

Are you saying that rape victims are destroyed?

That's sensationalist nonsense, sorry.

 

[mrscott137]

What do you notice about the counties on that list? Except for Japan (that barely made the top 10) and the US, do those strike you as countries that have human rights and justice systems you might want to emulate?

Not trying to be offensive, but from an outsiders point of view (UK), america ain't perfect either in terms of human rights and justice systems. For example- a national healthcare system, racism (DO NOT DENY THIS- It wasn't just me who saw southerners having fits over a black president). Oh and America- I visited once and made the mistake of admitting that I am partly socialist in a bar. Didn't go down to well, like I say, its the minority groups, but the same could be said for the middle eastern countries and china above. Not perfect, as I say.

Well that was your fault for being a socialist.

My point is completely proven. Bravo to you sir, Bravo.

 

[Leg End]

What do you notice about the counties on that list? Except for Japan (that barely made the top 10) and the US, do those strike you as countries that have human rights and justice systems you might want to emulate?

Not trying to be offensive, but from an outsiders point of view (UK), america ain't perfect either in terms of human rights and justice systems. For example- a national healthcare system, racism (DO NOT DENY THIS- It wasn't just me who saw southerners having fits over a black president). Oh and America- I visited once and made the mistake of admitting that I am partly socialist in a bar. Didn't go down to well, like I say, its the minority groups, but the same could be said for the middle eastern countries and china above. Not perfect, as I say.

Well that was your fault for being a socialist.

My point is completely proven. Bravo to you sir, Bravo.

You know he was joking right? :/

I asked him about it and he meant it in a joking fashion, it just didn't come out that way.

 

[mrscott137]

What do you notice about the counties on that list? Except for Japan (that barely made the top 10) and the US, do those strike you as countries that have human rights and justice systems you might want to emulate?

Not trying to be offensive, but from an outsiders point of view (UK), america ain't perfect either in terms of human rights and justice systems. For example- a national healthcare system, racism (DO NOT DENY THIS- It wasn't just me who saw southerners having fits over a black president). Oh and America- I visited once and made the mistake of admitting that I am partly socialist in a bar. Didn't go down to well, like I say, its the minority groups, but the same could be said for the middle eastern countries and china above. Not perfect, as I say.

Well that was your fault for being a socialist.

My point is completely proven. Bravo to you sir, Bravo.

You know he was joking right? :/

I asked him about it and he meant it in a joking fashion, it just didn't come out that way.

Ah okay, sorry man, i'm just used to deadly serious shit from people about my political views. Sorry :/

 

[Biosophilogical]

Do you believe that the death sentence should be used more often

I'm pretty sure most people find that it's used only once...

I beg to differ. They tried on me three times, and I survived it the first and third times. Admittedly they shouldn't have tried to kill me when I was dead after the second time, it gave me the opportunity for a re-match with death.

OT: Seriously, why do you people like the death-penalty so much? Isn't it bad enough that the criminals have harmed humanity? Now you want to harm them back? Killing someone doesn't make anything right, it doesn't undo history. Seriously!!! What! The! Fudge! Is! Up! With! You! Guys! How on earth do people feel that killing someone as punishment! is in any way just? Killing someone because it is the only way to prevent them from killing or severely hurting others? Sure. Killing someone for revenge/'justice'/because you can't be arsed taking a less extreme method of prevention? RAWR!!! Only random key-pressing can possibly express my exasperation! hj;seuhbuiagbn[ea5'ujbaw4bpv2 Argh! ;aihjrbvabv'o9euj

 

[Leg End]

What do you notice about the counties on that list? Except for Japan (that barely made the top 10) and the US, do those strike you as countries that have human rights and justice systems you might want to emulate?

Not trying to be offensive, but from an outsiders point of view (UK), america ain't perfect either in terms of human rights and justice systems. For example- a national healthcare system, racism (DO NOT DENY THIS- It wasn't just me who saw southerners having fits over a black president). Oh and America- I visited once and made the mistake of admitting that I am partly socialist in a bar. Didn't go down to well, like I say, its the minority groups, but the same could be said for the middle eastern countries and china above. Not perfect, as I say.

Well that was your fault for being a socialist.

My point is completely proven. Bravo to you sir, Bravo.

You know he was joking right? :/

I asked him about it and he meant it in a joking fashion, it just didn't come out that way.

Ah okay, sorry man, i'm just used to deadly serious shit from people about my political views. Sorry :/

Eh, I somewhat made the mistake too.

Don't worry about it.

 

[New Troll]

Eye For An Eye justice, with extreme prejudice. I'm all for it.

I believe executions are much more economical than life-imprisonment. I could be wrong, but have yet to see otherwise. Course I'm also not a big fan of the prison system. Turning criminals into sadists before releasing them back among the world. Sure there's those who do in fact turn thier life around, but they seem to be the minority. Just not worth it in my opinion.

So... you are all for taking a life if to cut costs?

That... isn't exactly the most... humane, thing to do.

Also, criminal reform.

Plus, you would kill those that would reform.

Yes I am. A life not worth anything is better not on this planet in my opinion. And yes criminals reform, but most don't. And the ones that don't are notorious for raping and killing fellow criminals while in prison, so who's to say thier victums couldn't have reformed? I'm all for removing the worst element from an already bad situation.

And as for costs, it might be inhumane but spending billions to house criminals and train them to be more sadistic criminals does not help to pay my son's doctor bills. Give them free room and board while I struggle to keep food on my son's plate. To me, it feels a lot like everyone is having to still pay, often decades later, for the crimes commited.

I have an uncle who's in and out of jail all the time, a complete waste to everyone, which even he admits to, yet he isn't even one of the people I'm referring to in my statements. But if he was to murder or rape someone, he most definitely would. He's not that evil of a guy though, just stupid.

Now I am generally a nice guy, full of patience and forgiveness, but some people just don't care because they don't deserve such emotions. Call me inhumane for caring more for the rest of the people on this world than for the evil among us, then I guess I am. Still won't ever get me to see the reasoning behind paying to let them live by sacrificing from my son, who could one day be an Einstien or Hawking, a Mozart or Clapton, a Washington or Reagan, a Pele or Zidane. Why are we limiting his future to support thiers?

TL;DR: Anyone who complains about taxes should be more open-minded about means of lowering them.

 

[WaReloaded]

"An eye for an eye leaves us all blind" I think this sums up my answer concisely.

 

[Arizona Kyle]

What if we only used the death penilty if more then 3 people saw you do the crime? that would kinda solve the "turns out he was innocent"

and ik what you guys are going to say about how people could pay people to say that they saw them and stuff but atleast i offered this lol

also instead of them waiting for like years on death row where they are eating up more money then the usual criminal why dont we just put a bullet in there brain??? or something like that??? (ok ok thats like hella cruel)

 

[SamElliot'sMustache]

In a day and age where men/women are killing each other, stealing millions of dollars, using drugs to the extreme, selling drugs, and oh so much more. Do you believe that the death sentence should be used more often rather then wasting tax payer money on some criminal that will never get out of prison

Yes. In fact, I say let's kill anyone we think might be committing a crime! What's all this due process shit, anyway? Just arm a bunch of people with shotguns and tell them to go to town. And drug users, yes, kill those fuckers by the truckload, because sitting around smoking pot and having "great ideas" is as evil as taking an AK-47 into a park and hosing people down with bullets. Hell, since most of the criminals we arrest are poor, minorities, or poor minorities, perhaps we should just take a preemptive strike, and drop napalm on all the ghettos, slums, and homeless shelters we can find.

No. First of all I believe it's morally wrong, and second of all it's not an action you can take back if the justice system fails.

Because you know, our justice system is 100% foolproof.

Furthermore, crime has plummeted [http://www.slate.com/id/2284662/] over the last 20 years. "Between 1990 and 2009, the national violent-crime rate was halved, while property crime dropped to 60 percent of its previous rate... The disparity has been especially clear in New York City. That city saw the most dramatic crime decline of all: Since 1990, the homicide rate has dropped 82 percent, robbery by 84 percent, rape by 77 percent, and auto theft a stunning 94 percent."

So why exactly do you want to start offing more people?

Oh, look, here comes the PC police with all those facts and logic. Stop speaking sense! Don't you know that "in a day and age where men/women are killing each other, stealing millions of dollars, using drugs to the extreme, selling drugs, and oh so much more" (that's to say, just like every day and age), facts don't matter? Arizona Kyle's sentence fragment opening was enough to convince me to buy into his moral panic, and it should convince anyone who's not some commie pinko terrorist-sympothizer. God bless America.

P.S.: And didn't you hear about DNA evidence? Because it's a magic wand that can automatically be used to determine someone's guilt, and not just another tool that police use, and not one that would be incredibly useless if they can't find a viable sample from the crime scene (hair, semen, skin cells, etc.) that could single out a person as opposed to a bunch of other people. Science is just magic, don't ya know?

 

[Arizona Kyle]

In a day and age where men/women are killing each other, stealing millions of dollars, using drugs to the extreme, selling drugs, and oh so much more. Do you believe that the death sentence should be used more often rather then wasting tax payer money on some criminal that will never get out of prison

Yes. In fact, I say let's kill anyone we think might be committing a crime! What's all this due process shit, anyway? Just arm a bunch of people with shotguns and tell them to go to town. And drug users, yes, kill those fuckers by the truckload, because sitting around smoking pot and having "great ideas" is as evil as taking an AK-47 into a park and hosing people down with bullets. Hell, since most of the criminals we arrest are poor, minorities, or poor minorities, perhaps we should just take a preemptive strike, and drop napalm on all the ghettos, slums, and homeless shelters we can find.

No. First of all I believe it's morally wrong, and second of all it's not an action you can take back if the justice system fails.

Because you know, our justice system is 100% foolproof.

Furthermore, crime has plummeted [http://www.slate.com/id/2284662/] over the last 20 years. "Between 1990 and 2009, the national violent-crime rate was halved, while property crime dropped to 60 percent of its previous rate... The disparity has been especially clear in New York City. That city saw the most dramatic crime decline of all: Since 1990, the homicide rate has dropped 82 percent, robbery by 84 percent, rape by 77 percent, and auto theft a stunning 94 percent."

So why exactly do you want to start offing more people?

Oh, look, here comes the PC police with all those facts and logic. Stop speaking sense! Don't you know that "in a day and age where men/women are killing each other, stealing millions of dollars, using drugs to the extreme, selling drugs, and oh so much more" (that's to say, just like every day and age), facts don't matter? Arizona Kyle's sentence fragment opening was enough to convince me to buy into his moral panic, and it should convince anyone who's not some commie pinko terrorist-sympothizer. God bless America.

ha ha ha very nice but i was just trying to start a discussion about the death sentence and yes another to the cause XD and ya ik it was sentence fragment but it was a sentence fragment that did the job at getting people to think about if we should use it more often

 

[PoliceBox63]

Used more?! It should be eliminated.
It's throwing away their right to life. Every human deserves to live as long as they can.
I mean, it's mostly murderers who are put to death? It's so hypocritical! You killed people and that's bad so we're going to kill you as punishment. Oh ya, great punishment, guys. A better punishment is letting them suffer incarcerated into old age.

Not to mention mistrials and biased juries and frame-ups... killing an innocent person is just tragic. Imagine right now you are taken from your home by the police and sentenced to death for murders you didn't commit and were then killed. If you were only incarcerated, over time evidence may come out in your favour and you would be freed.

This whole idea behind the death sentence is just Medieval.

 

[meowchef]

Every single time a person is convicted of rape or murder.

But, in the former, you would be sentencing them to a fate worse than the crime.

Not necessarily. They destroyed at least one life... you destroy one life.

Are you saying that rape victims are destroyed?

That's sensationalist nonsense, sorry.

Do you know any rape victims?